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OK, no doubt this question has been asked before, but would be interesting to see which way people here do it.
For my part as a guy who has played cornet in a brass band and trumpet in a general entertainment, (Mainly sax's) band, I can read and play to the tadpoles on lines, and also with a bit of work on finding the right notes, play a tune without the dots. I also did a bit of messing about on guitar with only a basic knowledge of a few chords. So I suppose you could say I can do a bit of both.
However who else can read music and play from it, and who are the guys who get by without knowing what the written music means and play entirely by ear or what they hear.
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Most musicians I know can do both.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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If I don't have it memorized I need the fly shite as it's called in an Irish Band. Once a year everyone that can play here is Irish. The semi-pros with union cards usually play in 2 or 3 bands starting at 10:30 a.m. until 2:30 close. They sometimes have bars next to each other booked so the break is at one and they play at the other. 2 gigs, 3 instruments, 50 bucks extra if you play 2 instruments. Makes for a lot of very bad accordion players. But an extra $100 for St. Paddies day just because you wear and accordion and pretend to play it seems lucrative to some guy with a 100 buck guitar singing Danny Boy until you want to wring his..never mind.
The bars here run by real Irish guys usually have 200 people in line by 10:30 in the morning, and everyone skips university and work. I still use the back door through the kitchen.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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i am an ear player and it has been a huge handicap. those that can do both have it all over me. i was able to fake it through high school music and band classes because i could mimic anything i had heard, therefore, i didn't apply myself, much to my regret. my advice: learn the 'fly droppings' as well as ear training. you won't regret it as i do.
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I used to be ear, but since I started using band in a box my knowledge of sight reading has improved greatly. I find I can tackle a hell of a lot more and make better sounding arrangements. So I'd say both now is my answer
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I like the fly spots, but I'm getting better at improv and as a consequence playing by ear (only real problem I have is gettin' enought air out me ear to get noise on the 'bone  )
--=-- My credo: If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing - just ask my missus, she'll tell ya  --=--You're only paranoid if you're wrong!
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I do both, but I would say I use my ear even when reading off the charts. A lot of charts aren't really written for guitar even though there is a score, so sometimes I "judiciously" use experience (ear/anticipation) to where the chord should be going and what form needs to be played. I have been playing off charts for quite some time and my ear playing has suffered, so I have been going to various jams to get some exposure in this regard. In my old age I have even been taking music lessons for the past few years as I was weak in playing the more complex odd time rhythms. BIAB has been of immense help to me in both ear playing and chart playing. DennisD
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Gotta be aces at both.
I my world, this isn't a one or the other thing.
--Mac
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Quote:
I like the fly spots, but I'm getting better at improv and as a consequence playing by ear (only real problem I have is gettin' enought air out me ear to get noise on the 'bone )
i get it, mr. conley!
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OK, a random thought;
Why does toilet paper need a commercial? Who's not buying it?
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I'm really sad that I'm not a natural at improv. I can play some by ear, but I may not figure out the key for a few bars which is a little scary at times. I can read the charts with no problem and sight read fairly well unless the runs are very fast with more than 4 sharps or flats. I just need to not be so lazy and practice more fast stuff with lots of sharps and flats. Learning to read music is very worthwhile, IMHO. Using fakebooks can really increase the number of tunes available for you and your audiences. Just my 4 cents worth.
Stan
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IF I were to play lead guitar or a melodic instrument, I would get my sight reading skills up (on the odd occasion I have played lead, I have improvised like hell and would never be able to play the same again) but I play rhythm guitar and sing. I sing by ear although I can read but I wouldn't do a gig as a singer if I didn't know it already (except at Christmas).
Being able to read music is a great asset for arranging. My problem is writing it!
Follow That Dream Sam Karaoke King -------------------- Turning that corner again - I have to keep following that dream, no matter what
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Quote:
OK, no doubt this question has been asked before, but would be interesting to see which way people here do it.
For my part as a guy who has played cornet in a brass band and trumpet in a general entertainment, (Mainly sax's) band, I can read and play to the tadpoles on lines, and also with a bit of work on finding the right notes, play a tune without the dots. I also did a bit of messing about on guitar with only a basic knowledge of a few chords. So I suppose you could say I can do a bit of both.
However who else can read music and play from it, and who are the guys who get by without knowing what the written music means and play entirely by ear or what they hear.
Hi you all
In my personal view, I think that being able to read and write music is important. It's work and sweat, but it opens a lot of doors. One has to train the ear, but if you play only by ear, seems to me, you get limited very fast. Talking about jazz (tenor sax) and because the ear tends to keep what it likes, I wonder if someone that uses only his/her ear, doesn't become repetitious after a while ? I don't see the point in memorizing everything. More liberty ? I don't think so. Like Stan said, if you don't throw at me too much chromaticism and complicated rhythms, I sight read fairly well. Nonetheless, I prefer to have the time to learn a piece and once it's in my fingers, then the score becomes a guideline. I mean, it's not because you look at a score while playing that your improvisation becomes rigid or less free. You can still do whatever you want. Anyway, I never play off charts that don't have the melody. For me, in improvisation, melody and harmony are entangled with one another. Plus, with my personal fake book, mixed with my own stuff, totaling more than 250 pages and still growing, I could never (well at least I couldn't) memorize all of that. Anyway, I don't want to give myself the extra strain of trying to memorize everything, I just want to play. Reading music ables me to flip the pages of my book and play what's in front of me. Reading music also facilitates communication with other musicians. You just pass on the parts and start playing. Everybody "speaks" the same language.
I think there are dual sides in jazz. More knowledge and technique gives you more freedom, but personally, playing jazz is also about learning to put your knowledge in the background. By nature, jazz is not "clinical". You have to let it flow and not ask yourself too much questions when you play. Like I said before, even if your ears keep what they like, reading music while playing doesn't force you to always do the same thing. I surely cannot retrace note for note the path I took during this or that improv. Maybe I'm not scholar enough, but I wouldn't want to explain everything either. Each time you enter a new improv, you also have to surprise yourself. But because certain jazz musicians memorize everything, doesn't mean that they play by ear and don't read music ! I guess it means they have a good memory. I don't want to minimize the feat of memorizing, I'm the first one to be astonished at seeing musicians render theme after theme, with the right melody and harmony. All the musicians I hear about, (in jazz at least) that reached a high level of playing, have acquired the knowledge of music.
I also play classical guitar and clarinet. That's another world. Even if there's place for interpretation, you're definitely closer to the score. If you don't read music it's hard to get by. I started in music playing Delta blues guitar, with Stefan Grossman's books. In those days I did meet a guy who played Bach's lute suites on the guitar by ear (right notes, right fingering). At the time I was only reading guitar tablature and asked him to show me, so I transcribed parts of Bach's suites in tablature. And for a year or so that's how I started to learn classical music. It was a good exercise, 'cause tablature can give you a hint of rhythm, but practically nothing, so it's all in your head / fingers. But after a while, I wanted to learn more guitar pieces and reading music was the only way to help me move forward. Surprisingly, only with the guitar, do I memorize whole pieces, without any effort, after a while I just know them by heart.
Reading music is also a way for me to recognize the intentions of the composer. He/she didn't only write arbitrary white and black dots and letters above, on a sheet of paper. Before improvising, I always learn a theme throughout. The composer wants to pass on some feelings, emotions of pleasure, joy, sadness or whatever. Every choice being subjective, I still think that acquiring the knowledge of music helps me get closer to the composer's intention.
Last edited by Pierre Julien; 01/23/11 05:21 AM.
Best of all and hope your day is a nice one
Pierre
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45 years by ear. Truly wish it was other wise. I've tried I just can't seem to get the hang of it. Took piano for 2 years about 10 years ago. Couldn't get it. I do think though that if my teacher hadn't been stuck on me playing the Classics it might have gone better.She was the only one in the area.For playing bass I couldn't wrap my mind around the fact that as you go UP the staff you go UP the neck as well BUT it's in the opposite direction.
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Quote:
45 years by ear. Truly wish it was other wise. I've tried I just can't seem to get the hang of it. Took piano for 2 years about 10 years ago. Couldn't get it. I do think though that if my teacher hadn't been stuck on me playing the Classics it might have gone better.She was the only one in the area.For playing bass I couldn't wrap my mind around the fact that as you go UP the staff you go UP the neck as well BUT it's in the opposite direction.
Hey John
As far as I'm concerned, even if I stick to what I've said, the bottom line as to be the sheer pleasure and fun of playing. Even if you could read music, if you don't have the pleasure and fun of playing, what's left ? 
Best of all and hope your day is a nice one
Pierre
IMac OSX 10.6.5 / latest BIAB
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Both. I am a classically trained pianist up to Grade 6 from some exam board in the UK, I forget which. I failed the Grade 6 theory as I had to write/transcribe a song and I wrote a 12 bar blues to the "adjusted" words for Bobby Shaftoe. I still remember the explosive next lesson with my music teacher which happened to be my last. Changed to violin and ended up in the string section of a local orchestra until I got caught playing my violin like a banjo at rehearsal and so ended my classical career transforming myself into what I thought was a Jeff Beck clone (1965/6)on guitar. Guitar was all self taught mainly by ear but I used to learn some transcribed sax Jazz solos to make me sound different, now have BIAB  I used to read these on the train! back and forth from London University so that always guaranteed space around me as I fretted the notes on my imaginary guitar making faces and looking like a tramp, sorry hippie! Ah the memories
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It’s definitely advantageous to be able to do both.
I primarily play by ear. I did learn to read a little while studying music theory and then later when I started learning to play piano when my son first started taking music lessons. I figured I would learn the piano so I could help him with his lessons. My sight reading skills went down the tubes with the piano after about a year when it became obvious my son was doing just fine on his own.
I admire those that can sight read anything. I once dated a music teacher and she had a china cabinet full of sheet music and I used to just go in there and pull something out of the middle of any of the piles and she would take the music and play it flawlessly. I was impressed.
For fretted stringed instruments, tablature far surpasses standard notation IMHO. It’s much more “exact” as far as to where on the fretboard the notes are being played. Especially with the newer TAB programs that include symbols and standard notation for all of the musical nuances.
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Quote:
I like the fly spots, but I'm getting better at improv and as a consequence playing by ear (only real problem I have is gettin' enought air out me ear to get noise on the 'bone )
One thing I did forget to mention...
It depends on what you're playing. F'rinstance, I play in the orchestra for a couple of musical societies - you better be able to read the music buddy or you ain't got a chair. I also play in a couple of big bands, again you need to be able to follow the dots... Actually I don't rehearse with one of these big bands as their rehearsal times are impossible for me, so I get to sight read at the gigs, that's fun...
On the other hand, I play in church and we rarely, if ever, have parts. Just a chord chart or a lead sheet if we're lucky. On the odd occasion I might have a piano/vocal chart available and extremely rarely I actually get written parts. I will often write my own parts when I have lead sheet or piano parts available, otherwise it's all improv/ear stuff.
At the end of the day, like another poster has said, ya gotta have fun.
<Edits in italics> fixed a typo and added a bit.
Last edited by Lawrie; 01/23/11 03:58 PM.
--=-- My credo: If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing - just ask my missus, she'll tell ya --=--You're only paranoid if you're wrong!
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Quote:
For fretted stringed instruments, tablature far surpasses standard notation IMHO. It’s much more “exact” as far as to where on the fretboard the notes are being played. Especially with the newer TAB programs that include symbols and standard notation for all of the musical nuances.
Problem with tab is that it ignores rhythm figures.
This means that you would have to also be able to HEAR a performance of the song, typically through use of a recording, to obtain that necessary information.
For example, if I were to mail you a Tab of a newly written piece with no accompanying recording from which to get and understand WHEN and HOW LONG to play each of the events along the tab timeline, you might not be able to decipher that information.
There is a method for guitarists to read only the dots, it is based on the thorough study of the positions along the neck, first position being down by the nut, second starts on the second fret, third position on the third fret, etc. in which the guitarist is taught the CAGED chord and scale patterns and then to view the written notation with the range for an area in mind and picking the position in which the guitarist is likely to be able to reach those notes in the easiest fashion. This was originally how Segovia published his famous and wonderful transcriptions of classical works for violin, piano, sometimes orchestral works that he transcribed into classical guitar pieces. Certain killer Jazz guitarists also came from out of that school and can do some amazing things sight reading piano charts, guitar charts, etc. The conssumate reading guitarist develops a different mindset about these things as opposed to the reading pianist, that in itself is one of those things best approached from a very early age when learning the basics from a good teacher is going to be something less than pulling teeth, as it were.
The guitar is the one instrument where, when someone asks me if I can read, I usually reply, "Yes, but not so well that it hurts the way I play..." That is because it usually involves reinterpreting things such as note stacks in order to actually play the damn part in the first place. Some guitarists I have worked with are very fast at doing that, even in realtime, me, it may take a few minutes o' headscratchin' to catch up. *grin*
--Mac
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Mac, Quote:
Problem with tab is that it ignores rhythm figures.
This means that you would have to also be able to HEAR a performance of the song, typically through use of a recording, to obtain that necessary information.
For example, if I were to mail you a Tab of a newly written piece with no accompanying recording from which to get and understand WHEN and HOW LONG to play each of the events along the tab timeline, you might not be able to decipher that information.
It depends on the TAB program. I mostly use GuitarPro 4. The TAB notes have stems and values just like standard notation. Also available are all of the musical symbols used in standard notation. Any info about the piece that can be put in standard notation can be used, so it isn’t necessary to hear the piece any more than it would be for std. notation.
By default, it creates stanard notation as you enter your tab, just enter your key signature so the notes are properly shown as sharps or flats. Shucks, you can even turn off the TAB and have just std. notation and print that off to give to your “non-fretted” friends for their instruments. Or turn off the std. notation.
You can also set the number of lines to fit your fretted instrument of choice, (guitar, bass, banjo, mandolin, etc.) You can even use custom tunings and it will properly take that into account when it converts these tabbed notes to std, notation and when naming chords. It will also identify the note name of each string at the beginning of the piece if it’s anything other than std. tuning. Capos can also be taken into account.
It also includes chord diagrams above the tab whenever you want so those note stacks don’t look so confusing. And you can enter custom chords and it will give you several suggestions for a correct name for the chord, or you can enter your own.
Even a much simpler program like TablEdit has many of these same features.
Old TAB programs were archaic and limited, but the new ones have all of the features of std. notation with the added benefit of showing exactly which note to play. Because of the nature of fretted instruments, any note can be played in numerous positions on the neck, all in the same octave. The note looks same in std. notation, but TAB tells you exactly which one to use.
If you are using the above programs instead of a printed copy, you also have the option of MIDI playback of the piece and you can import and export MIDI. GP4 will import MIDI from BIAB and enter 5 or 6 different tracks, one for each instrument. Multiple tracks is a feature I forgot to mention.
While I wish my sight reading skills were up to par with yours and most of the others on here, … they aren’t. But with a good TAB program, they don’t have to be.
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