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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 463
Journeyman
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OP
Journeyman
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 463 |
Hello All,
I'm getting a lot of mileage out of the J140 series of jazz styles, but had to change to a very simple bass #1392.
A number of slower standards I'm working on are 32 bars, yet in the bass line, there are only 3 or so half notes and far too many eighth notes,
both a and b sections. I know this has been brought up before, and as a result, the simple and very simple basses were introduced. The other very simple jazz bass does yield more half notes, but is too frenetic for me.
My exposure to jazz is limited, but is this as simple as it gets or should get? Just curious.
Percy
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 15,944
PG Music Staff
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PG Music Staff
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 15,944 |
>> is this as simple as it gets or should get?
There is a simpler one. #1204 Bass, Acoustic, GypsyJazzBallad Sw 110
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,616
Expert
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Expert
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,616 |
I assume you are using the correct RT for your tempo or letting BIAB substitute for you? Yes, the introduction of the Very Simple bass was much welcomed by many of us. If it is still too busy you can try changing your whole song to 'A' markers, generate the bass, and then Freeze it. Once frozen you can change your markers back to what you like.
If that doesn't work, some of the MIDI styles have very simple, but solid, bass lines. My personal favorite for Jazz swing is JAZSIMP - mostly in 2 at 'A', and walking at 'B'. Put that through a good synth and it is hard to beat.
R
p.s. I don't remember if the new Very Simple and Simple have tempo swapping. I added them to my RTTempoSwaps file but don't know if they are there by default now.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 463
Journeyman
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OP
Journeyman
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 463 |
Just what I needed. This bass and the jazz brushes sound great together !
Thanks a lot.
Percy
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 824
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Jul 2001
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The new simple styles are not as simple as it gets. Instead, try using the bass from Gypsy Jazz (Simon Planting) or any styles with the bass played by Jodi Proznick, rather than Neil Swainson.
As Rachel said, it is true that the new simple styles were welcomed; mainly I believe because the translation (programming?) of Neil Swainson's bass lines into RealStyles was previously not very satisfactory. The new simple styles are better but still not very logical. There was a lot of discussion about this in a previous topic.
I analysed the lines produced by the new simple and very simple bass styles and each bar at least started with a root note more often. However, I then had one of Australia's best bass players analyse the lines and he says they are 'dumb' - sorry, but that was the exact comment he wrote on many of sheets and sheets of bass lines with different progressions and keys that I gave him. I don't really know how to pass that information on to PG Music other than by this forum.
I would like to point out again that the bass lines being produced in RealStyles are nothing like the way that Neil Swainson plays in reality. You only have to check out his playing on the videos available on YouTube, or any of his fine recordings with George Shearing to hear this. Sure, he uses a lot of triplets and grace notes on the slower tunes, where applicable to what others in the group are playing, but not in the faster tunes, and not indiscriminately, as happens in RealStyles.
I really hate posting negative things about Band-in-a-Box but I just about exclusively use the jazz styles for my practicing and arranging. Most of the styles use Neil and I have to change them nearly every time. As an improviser who listens to the bass for my chords, I can always tell when I have forgotten to change the bass player. Several people have commented that the listening public are not that discriminating when you are using BB for accompaniment on live gigs but I think this is 'beside the point'.
The fact is that the Neal Swainson RealStyles lines have not translated to WALKING bass lines sensibly. Compare the lines produced by RealStyles to say a basic tutor such as "Bass Lines in Minutes - An Easy Method for Creating Bass Lines" by Kris Berg, or ask a bass player to analyse them like I did, and you will see what I mean.
Grah Jive Talk
"Don't worry baby, they'll swing their arses off."
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 463
Journeyman
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OP
Journeyman
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 463 |
Rachel,
Back when BB 2011 was first released (or even earlier) you suggested some very good midi bass alternatives to the busier bass RTs. Don't know why, but I overlooked JAZSIMP. I invoked the style in a few tunes and the bass indeed fits in very nicely.
Your comments on the forum are always very helpful. Thanks.
Percy
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,616
Expert
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Expert
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,616 |
Glad I could help. Be sure to check out Jodi Proznick on Bass found on 'Jazz Paul' and 'Jazz Ray' RTs. Her phrases are much less frenetic but limited only to faster tempos. As for JAZSIMP, it is still my style of choice for gigs. Add Terry Clarke on drums - heaven!
R
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 463
Journeyman
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OP
Journeyman
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 463 |
Graham,
Your post as well as the previous topic you referenced are very informative. I've mostly been using bass style #1392 for slower tunes and was curious who the artist is. However, the field is blank, probably because the simpler styles were added post release.
Percy
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 31
Enthusiast
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Enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 31 |
To be honest i've barely noticed any difference between the 'simple' basses and the originals. Plus the 140 tempo 'simple' basses will not follow slash chords, so if i enter F/C the 'simple' and 'very simple' basses still play an F.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,616
Expert
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Expert
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,616 |
I don't think any of the RT basses follow slash chords.
R
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 15,944
PG Music Staff
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PG Music Staff
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 15,944 |
>> I don't think any of the RT basses follow slash chords.
All of them do, and have for a long time.
There looks to be a bug in some of the just-released ones (ie the simple variations) where they follow slash chords on triads (F/C) but not 7th chords (FMaj7/C).
We're looking into that, and will fix it. As mentioned, that bug would only affect a small number (<5%) of the basses. Haven't heard of that bug affecting the other basses (non simple), but others can let me know on that point.
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 31
Enthusiast
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Enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 31 |
The original ones work fine following slash chords but its just the simple ones at 140 don't.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 15,944
PG Music Staff
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PG Music Staff
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 15,944 |
>> The original ones work fine following slash chords but its just the simple ones at 140 don't.
OK thanks Mellowstu, We have spotted the problem, and a patch will fix it.
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 463
Journeyman
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OP
Journeyman
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 463 |
Stu,
I gotta say that the Gypsy Jazz bass #1204 that Peter suggested is indeed a simple (if not very simple) bass.
Without knowing what style of music you play, it may or may not work for you.
I play in restaurants and clubs, mostly standards, and the bass on slower standards made me nervous. LOL.
But the Gypsy bass is very laid back and easier on the vocals.
Percy
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,616
Expert
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Expert
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,616 |
Most of my tracks use the 'old' Pedal Bass chord setting. The RTs seems to ignore this. Midi works fine. My comment was based on this since the setting puts a slash chord at that measure. If RTs will be 'fixed' to recognize this, I won't change my songs using the pedal bass. Otherwise...
R
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 15,944
PG Music Staff
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PG Music Staff
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 15,944 |
Correct, realTracks don't support Pedal Bass, but they do support slash chords.
Pedal Bass support is something that we plan to add in the future.
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,697
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,697 |
Bass is so critical, when I get called for a gig usually the first thing I ask is "who's on bass?". When it comes to the RT's I can nit pick with the best of them but I also understand just how tough it is to simply plug in prerecorded phrases in many different tunes. Even though a lot of us think of standards as being all the same they're most certainly not. When you listen to the original recordings of classic standard medium swing tunes you hear all kinds of different things happening in the rhythm section. The basses are not all simple, some are, some arn't but I agree a simple bass can really help the band keep things together and also help a soloist know where they are in the bar. It's difficult to put in some off time figures in a solo and not hear the bass laying down a solid on the beat line. If he's messing around a bit at the same time the soloist is, the soloist better have a real good metronome in his head. I will hear a group of pure monster players where nobody including the drumer is laying down any kind of solid to the beat rhythm yet they all know where they are. I found a youtube video of some all star big band in Japan doing Tunisia. Dave Weckl was on drums and he's not one to listen to if you need the drummer to tell you where 1 is! I've had that tune memorized for 20 years and play it regularly yet when these cats were taking their solo's I got lost just listening to it. I even replayed the piano solo (Gonzalvo Rubalcaba) like 10 times trying to follow it and still couldn't and I know that tune very well. Amazing.
Anyway, back to the point I mostly like the jazz bass RT's considering the limitations of trying to use the same prerecorded RT in different tunes.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Veteran
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Veteran
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In the past, I have run into a problem of mMaj7 chords where on occasion the slash root does not sound (and the RealTrack piano drops out, too). It has not happened yet with version 2011 though, but I'll test it again.
The addition of pedal bass to RealTracks would be really great!
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Expert
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Expert
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...and some RT bass don't handle diminished chords well. They just play the root. I just listened to a walking bass of Jazz Paul 140. Every C#dim chord she justed played C# on all 4 beats of a bar.
R
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