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There have been a few individuals expressing the opinion that there needs to be a “rethink” about BIAB or even a “rewrite”. And it seems to me therefore trying to make BIAB into something it was never designed for. I’d say the majority of users in this forum are quite happy with the program. I certainly am and don’t care what the interface looks like – its fine the way it is. I’ve used it for many years now and it does exactly what I want it to do. Generate without much fuss an amazing skeletal framework of backing instruments which I load into SONAR 8 in my studio and from there I can add my East-West sample libraries to generate anywhere from a full 60 piece orchestra, to a full choral or rock assembly or just about any genre.

Here’s my advice to those complaining - Use BIAB in the way it was meant to be used as a phenomenal piece of engineering to generate backings in several clicks instead of spending hours doing it from scratch. Experiment what works and doesn’t work. With patience (I cannot emphasize this enough – learn to walk before you can run) you’ll finally achieve a very satisfying result. If you want more you’ll have to then add sample libraries as I have into a DAW to extend BIAB to even greater heights.

And here’s my advice and wish to Pgmusic - stick with the knitting lads and concentrate on giving us even more Real Tracks with greater variety instead of wasting too much time on trying to gild the lily.

SALISBURY:
Therefore, to be possess'd with double pomp,
To guard a title that was rich before,
To gild refined gold, to paint the lily,
To throw a perfume on the violet,
To smooth the ice, or add another hue
Unto the rainbow, or with taper-light
To seek the beauteous eye of heaven to garnish,
Is wasteful and ridiculous excess.

Shakespeare's King John,

I agree with most of that ... except the 'smooth the ice' part. Up here we skate on it and play hockey on it; smooth is good!



I see what you mean though. Don't wreck a beautiful thing (to many) trying to please everybody.
It's a tough decision for a company; continue to excel at what they do, or become more 'mainstream' to gain volume.

.. if only there were a program that could do what BiaB does AND act like a DAW .. so users could do both

I agree also .... but to a point. I do understand what some of the other want, and have debated this waaaay to much. I am all for growth and progress, but think while Biab get gentle growth, and refinement. Maybe a mixer and a synth rack to satisfy those who want to use more than one synth, and want to have a tad more control over levels.

It is time for Rb and PT to take off and fullfill what folks want. Take Rb to the next level, add volume envelopes, refine midi, and audio editing a bit more, finish the VSTi coding so it uses all VSTis, even the ones with time adjsutment like jamstix, and rework the ASIO implimentation a bit more, so that ASIO is more usable than WDM. Make it so folks think long and hard before draging files to Cubase, Reaper, Sonar, whatever. It really is not that far away.

And Crispin Crispian shall ne'er go by,
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be remember'd;
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition:
And gentlemen in England now a-bed
Shall think themselves accursed they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day.

"What we have we have, and it is good,
We shall rejoice in it anon,
And view our songs as they might be,
The dew from heaven,
And thus the gentle unknown drops
We all see in the morn,
Strains from some great scene,
At once silent and still,
Swelling and full,
Like the gentle dew from heaven,
Loved and as loved,
In vast green fields.

I would like more real tracks as well ,I already have several DAW'S to mix with . There are some of free DAW's if you don't have them . I love real tracks ,but feel like when I bought biab 2004 and needed the mega pack a week later. Amazing software as is ,just need more of it !

As a new user, I would have to agree with the OP. BIAB is an excellent program, and does what it does quite well. Trying to compete with dedicated, established DAW's like Cubase or Sonar would probably detract from development of more viable features (i.e. more tracks/styles, better ASIO support).

I guess deep down most users would like certain things added to BIAB I do.. my wish is more real tracks and more guitar solos.But looking back PG has added more things as it evolved so I would say be patient unless that is you are in your late 90,s Frank

No, I meant that was exactly what it does.

My sarcasm can be missed at times if you don't know me. I think Realband can get the job done 99% of the time for most users. It does for me. Way more powerful than most users realize.

With all the advice Rharv has given as a cheerleader for RealBand, it was pretty clear to many regulars on the forum, and he even gave a gracious clarification in case it wasn't. He's the man.

Well my 2 cents worth is that PG hardly ever bring out or redesign's a program. They just "add pieces on" Probably makes things a lot easier in the coding department

Nothing wrong in that I think except maybe in the programming department and especially in the end user one, where I would think (even though I'm not a code wrtiter) this is responsible for all the time lags in realband where biab can do certain common features a lot quicker than RB can.
eg opening the style picker. I would also have expected a quick preview of styles in the realband stylepicker by now but no such joy. I have added it to the wishlist though but not expecting any miracles.

That saying both programs are 2 of my favourites.

musiclover

I agree with Rharv that RB is far more powerful than most folks give it credit for, there are not as many missing pieces as one might think. It has a ton of Midi tool, maybe not crazy midi filters and stuff that a Sonar and or Reaper have, but it is very usable. It's audio editing is really quite good you can double click and open the audio editor, or cut and paste right in the track in tracks view. You have to setup Reaper for that with a pile of mouse modifiers.

What RB needs to be a very solid contender is simple:

1. Finish the VSTi coding so that timing sensitive plugs work like Jamstix and such

2. Update the ASIO so that it is as useful as WDM

3. Add an automation/envelope system like cakewalk with nodes and such that can be added to control volume, panning and effects.

4. tidy up the coding so that some of the aforementioned lagging is cleaned up.

5. Make it have more than 48 tracks

Do this and you have a solid full featured product. It already does things the others do not do.

Would I like a bicycle? Will it get me where I want to go with a minimum of fuss? A light would be nice for night riding. Maybe a basket. A luggage rack on back? Mmmmmm okay. How about a shock fork, well if ya gotta real need I guess. How about 3 speeds, or 7 or 10, heck lets make it 18 or 21. We can upgrade the tires and saddle and add a horn or a bell.

Wait what about a three wheeler? no wait that would be a tricycle. How about one of those peddle carriages that seat four with the fringe on top? Hmmm that's not really a bicycle either. If you really want to get there faster why not a motorcycle?

But then again if I want a motorcycle, what am I doing at a bicycle shop? Because what I really wanted to begin with was a bicycle for not too much money, that does what I need it to do and doesn't pretend to meet every transportation need that I may have for the rest of my life.

Is this not the bicycle forum? Oh well, just apply it to BIAB and there ya go.



Rob

"You have to setup Reaper for that with a pile of mouse modifiers"

Let's keep it real. That is not necessary in reaper for editing. I do all my editing with traditional mouse usage.

I'm a real track user exclusively at the moment. When it comes to biab, I believe PG did a great thing with elastique. Although I don't have 2011, I do use elastique in reaper and it is very powerful. I'm quite certain it serves real tracks very well in biab 2011. So that's a huge development for biab. The only other thing I'd appreciate, for someone like me who uses biab merely for chart writing and having real tracks follow that chart, is either a smarter engine or a way to choose fills and sections manually as well. The auto generation of real tracks can be hit or miss when it comes to giving you exactly, or close to what you're looking for. And although I like auto generation and think it's an integral part of what biab offers with real tracks, manual choice for advanced users let's say, would be great as well. It would cut down on editing after the fact and give the user that much more control in a biab session. That's a tall order. For drums it should be simple enough. For other instruments, that's quite a challenge to put together and organize. But for me, I'd like a further option beyond the 'pot luck' of auto generation. Or like I said, a more refined and intellegent brain assembling real track parts behind the scenes- I mean the software, not the people lol!

As for real band, only a few things make an otherwise not bad daw fall short for me. Latency for all movements within the program, lack of envelope automation, and the lack of typical cursor behavior, and seriously long waits to save while in progress. I view real band as a work in progress and maybe the vision will never be to make it a serious contender to the majors. I don't care really. It does what I need it to do and I'm fine with that. I've always been one to use different tools for their strengths, so I have no problem software hopping, and even hardware hopping, to get the jobs done.

Dan

Easy: because I learned SONAR years before RealBand was available. I tend to stay with tools I know well. As a comp sci prof, I had to work with a lot of software, and there's enough to remember without adding to the task. If I were starting now, the decision might be different.