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Hi All.
Post follows on from my previous one about speakers v. monitors. I learned a lot from that - thanks.
Upshot is that I got some Wharfedale Diamond Pro-Active 8.1 monitors from ebay (used)
Initally the sound was excellent - I was very pleased. But afte a week I suddenly developed a mains hum that I cant lose.
I've connected them direct to laptop via unbalanced TRS/RCA (phono). When powered and cabled up, but with the TRS jack out of the laptop I dont get any hum. If I connect the TRS to the laptop, but disconnect either of the RCAs from the monitors I dont get any hum. If I switch off the power to one particular monitor I lose the hum - But not if I depower the other instead.
Its most odd - either one seems to work OK, but not together. Because the hum resolves when one unit is depowered it suggest to me a defect in one unit.
I've had lots of help from these forums - but this is probably too big an ask. Hoping for flash of genius/insight/wizardry
Any ideas gratefully received. BTW I've had a quick peek inside and nothing obviously fried.
thanks
Tom
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Try the lappy on battery.
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Yep tried that - makes no difference tho - the hum doesnt seem to come from there.
Thanks for the idea tho
Tom
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Are both monitors plugged into the same outlet? Use a powerstrip to make sure they are.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Journeyman
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What Matt said. If either one can be silent in a particular setup, then both are ok and it's probably your cabling gone bad. Replace all cable and any adapters in the chain with new and see. Also, other sources can cause this. Be careful to not have the audio monitor cables near the laptop power adapter. Computer monitors can cause this too. Light dimmers. All kinds of stuff. Noodle with all that and see.
Dan
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Lift the grounds. (earth) Ensure polarity is right on all mains plugs. Not uncommon for someone to wire it wrong.
Mess with the plugs. Another thing is having something else plugged in that is feeding you R/F.
Plug, unplug, and mess with this. It's usually easy in the end.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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That gave me chills. I have the Wharfedales too (8.2 model) and have the hum problem on ONE of them. Only one. And when I switch channels, if it was the feed, logic says the hum would follow the channel, right? Wrong. The hum stays in the speaker on the right side of the room.
HOWEVER.....
I had reason to go behind the knee wall (to tack up some fallen insulation) and discovered a junction box there I never noticed before. I have my electrician coming in to look at that, but with all the other testing I did, there HAS to be some spurious AC causing the hum because the speaker sits right in front of it.
I also took both speakers into another room, with first the same mixer and then a second mixer, and there was no hum. So as the responders have suggested, it seems like an AC related issue. If you swap left and right out of the mixer, does the hum stay with the channel or the speaker?
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Hey great responses - thanks.
Power supply is from common strip - have changed that, tried plugging in on another mains circuit - still get the loud hum.
I have tried changing leads, swapping units, changing locations, all sorts.
And whatever I do I get the same hum - and it always resolves when I depower the same monitor.
Eddie - I wish it simply were just some hidden AC pickup - but I get the same thing in any location. BTW what do you think of the speaker soundwise?
Key observations:
1 I dont get hum if I dont plug the TRS in.
2 I get hum if I plug the TRS into any input source.
3 No hum if I depower one of the units - always the same one.
4 I removed the earth/ground connection from mains lead on the suspect unit - hey presto - no hum - all works perfectly - except risk of getting fried if goes faulty.
5 When I first got the monitors, I didnt have this problem. Same cables, same set up. It just started out of the blue.
I dont have the luxury of a balanced OP from the laptop. Anyone know how to wire unblanced OP to balanced IP?
Thanks again
Tom
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Quote:
Anyone know how to wire unblanced OP to balanced IP?
http://www.recordingwebsite.com/articles/cables.php
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Sounds like you have both unbalanced RCA inputs and balanced inputs to the monitors.There is no point in using the balanced inputs when the outs are unbalanced. Buy a small mixer with balanced outs. Plug the lappy into the mixer.
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Quote:
Eddie - I wish it simply were just some hidden AC pickup - but I get the same thing in any location. BTW what do you think of the speaker soundwise?
I love them. Good low end response and crisp highs. Plenty of power for near field use. 100w is enough to send sound 8 feet to my ears.....
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I found my problem and resolved it, and it had little to do with anything I thought of in the past.
I noticed that one keyboard was flickering on and off when I played it. I decided to change out the power strip. That power strip had 3 keyboards, a tremolo/Leslie effect stomp box, and another power strip that only the Wharfedale monitors plug into. When I changed out that power strip, I took out an older generic strip and put in one that has an indicator on it when a line fault is present. As soon as I hit the power button, the red fault light came on. Reset the strip, red light stayed on. Took that power strip to another outlet on another circuit, no red light. So I ran that power strip from a different wall outlet and now everything is quiet. So bottom line, the problem in MY case was a bad wiring job inside one of my walls, not surprising given what else I inherited when I bought this house in early 2009. NO ground lifts, no re-routing, just a bad wall outlet. Fortunately that wall is going to come down anyway and I will just eliminate that wire run.
But yep, everybody who said it was power conditioning for the few of us who talked about AC related hum was right on it.
And now back to the Stanley Cup game.....
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"I removed the earth/ground connection from mains lead on the suspect unit - hey presto - no hum - all works perfectly - except risk of getting fried if goes faulty." Seems like a ground loop issue if you lift the ground and all is well. If you can't track it down, take a look at some of these products that are made to help these situations- http://www.musiciansfriend.com/navigation?q=ebtechAnd also- http://www.musiciansfriend.com/navigation?q=power+conditionerGood luck. Dan
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Eddie, I once managed a computer center, and we wondered why the life of the electronics in the display area was so short. Because of the faulty wiring, anything that caused the equipment to be connected to more than one outlet, like a shared switched printer for many PCs, allowed substantial stray voltages to flow. A new wiring job for the whole wall was needed, and after that, no problems.
The first thing I do before plugging equipment in, is take out my three-prong outlet tester. These testers are cheap, like $5, but they can quickly save you time and money.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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I worked for 8 years with one of those 3 prong testers in my pocket. A fire inspector should have tools. I also had a proximity tester and another one I could use on stainless steel in restaurants to detect stray voltage. People said to me, I got tingling from that thing for years and now it's gone. Go figure.
In a burned out building don't touch the bare phone lines. As long as no call comes in you are not like the electrocuted cat in the cartoon. It may not seem like lots of volts but you only do it once in a wet basement.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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John, when you say proximity tester, is that the thing that you can just touch to the outside of the wire and see if it is live?
I have my electricity guy coming in later this week for something else and I am going to have him look at every circuit upstairs. He rewired my basement to add circuits for the woodworking shop and kicked me up to 200 amp svc because I was also adding an electric range. Before his visit, if I ran the shop vac to catch the sawdust when running the table saw I would blow a breaker. He added 6 outlets in the basement, each on their own 20 amp breaker. Need him to nose around upstairs now. The hum was cut 85% by moving it to the other circuit. Of course I would like dead silence. Much like the audience wants when I sing....
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Well as an Electrical Contractor & Chief Electrical Inspector IF you want dead silence what you need to do is isolate your studio circuits from the rest. The only way to do this is have an Electrician run a 50A/220VAC circuit to an isolation transformer and from the trans former to a new panel.Then individual branch circuits as needed from there. The grounding electrode systems is re established at either the transformer or the new panel depending on the wiring configuration and in essence provides you with a new SERVICE that is just for the studio.
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Thanks John. I had a feeling that for perfect silence I needed perfect wiring for perfect power. I will have my guy give me some numbers for that. When he worked on my basement 2 years ago he did a lot of work (New panel, upped the service to 200amp,and put in 6 new outlet boxes, as well as removing 2 very bad pieces of home made wire run form the previous owners) and did me okay on the price.
Great to get input from an actual professional like yourself! I freak out when I change light fixtures! Took me 6 years to work up the courage to remove a 1960s ceiling fan/light fixture and replace it with a florescent. Took 15 minutes, went without incident, but still took 6 years....
Don't even ASK me about plumbing.... LOL!!
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Another way that may be as effective in the home is to wire the studio using all metal boxes and Medical Grade AC Cable. AC cable otherwise called Armored cable is UL listed so that the armor can serve as the equipment ground. It looks similar to the old BX cable but is not at all the same. The medical Grade also has an insulated grounding conductor run inside with the other 2 conductors. Patient Care rooms per Art 517 NEC requires redundant grounding. In the case of the studio you'll use receptacles that have isolated grounds. In this way the boxes are grounded with the armor of the cable BUT the ground on the receptacles is done with the insulated equipment ground.This way the armor actually acts as a shield preventing stray currents & EMI from getting in.Mention both methods to your Electrician. If he has that "deer in the headlights" look find another Electrician.
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