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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Nov 2006
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OP
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 125 |
Hi folks,
I love some of the great realtracks but usually just choose a midi style add a few specific realtracks and realdrums and thats it.
I notice that a lot of people just use realtracks only in their songs but I would think that unless one chooses an already made realtrack style it must take a considerable amount of time to audition maybe 5 or 6 different instruments in realtracks and get the right ones for the songs.
Just wondering if one wants a song with realtracks only (and doesn't want one of the ready made realtrack styles) is there any tips on speeding up the process of getting the right realtracks?
Thanks very much for any tips and advice.
Axey
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 711
Journeyman
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Journeyman
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A very good question.
I don't compose songs, don't want to get into Realband and just use BIAB to accompany my keyboard playing. Although I like the sound of RTs I don't use them as much as Midi for two reasons.
1) As Axey says it takes a lot of effort to audition and add RTs to a style.
2) The ready made RT only styles are a bit of a disappointment - not the sound but the arrangements. There are many more "interesting" MIDI styles. Also why do so many of the RT styles use up one of the instruments for a solo? If you mute the RT solo the rest of the RT style is often very ordinary. I would prefer creative RT styles that provide just a full band backup and I will add solo RTs to the melody and/or solo track if I want to.
Tony
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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As far as getting the most out of this or any other music software, I find that it helps to think of the program as an instrument such as an organ or synthesizer with hundreds or thousands of presets. I say this because I know of no other way to know what you have your hands on other than to invest time in listening. This can be frustrating if your goal is to quickly crank out an arrangement. However, I know of no instrument or software which is worth using which does not require some learning. Yes, it does take a considerable amount of time. In the case of BIAB/RB, many tracks rule themselves out because of their obvious unsuitability. You are not going to be using a metal guitar in a jazz trio. That still leaves numerous (to put it mildly) choices. My solution is twofold. First, I just get into the process. Every new iteration of BIAB is a gift--one which takes time to open. Enjoy it! I had to do this in order to use Acid, listening through at many classes of loops, if not each individual file, to know what I had my hands on. Same with my Roland JV-1010 synth module. Knowing that you have a patch named "Ethereal Pad" doesn't really tell you anything. You just have to listen. The second thing is this. (I work differently from almost anyone here, so this applies to almost no one.) I have virtually given up getting BIAB to do what I want it to. Instead, I use it for inspiration. I got tired of being distracted from creating a song (usually a cover, which I have given up on anyway) and passing up on all the great ideas suggested by BIAB. If I didn't know that I don't have to, I'd list BIAB as a co-composer on many of my works. I end up with a bunch of cool stuff that I never would have thought of on my own. (Obviously the Good Doctor had this in mind when creating the program, so I have to thank him for yet another stroke of brilliance.  ) But given that you have a fixed idea in mind when you sit down, it looks to me like you have a choice. Either take the time to thoughtfully peruse the palette of sounds and styles available, or resign yourself to getting close--but no more--on your arrangements. Of course, you can ask questions here, and I suggest that you do. But that won't make up for discovering on your own what your new 'instrument' has to offer. HTH, Richard
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 120
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Apprentice
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 120 |
Very well put, Ryszard!
This is a growing problem that we seem to face as we comtinue to move ever so quickly farther into the new millennium.
We all seem to want everything in an instantaneous fashion!
One thing I've learned since working with digital audio is this....
The more time we take (in the beginning!) to digest the specifics of a certain program or factor of the recording process, the quicker the process becomes later.
I've heard it said many moons ago, "Haste makes Waste"!
This is so true. Whenever I take the extra time to "really" learn something, the better the final product becomes, and probably more importantly, the "more enjoyable" the process is!
Just my two cents.
Harpo
It's not what you're "Playing", It's what you're "Saying"!
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2000
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1. Tempo of the song eliminates some RT selections.
2. Style of the song helps dictate what you may want to try, ie country, rock, folk, etc.
Otherwise I try to guess the best fit and keep trying. This is one reason I prefer RB; it is easy to highlite just a section of the song, generate a real track to try it, if you don't like it just 'edit-undo' and try another one. Trying small sections (like one verse) speeds up the generation time and lets me try more selections in less time.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
2. Style of the song helps dictate what you may want to try, ie country, rock, folk, etc.
With respect, I think that it depends on how creative you are. If you are working strictly within one genre that may be true. But I have used a Real Drum "jazz" brush style in a Les-Paul style country guitar piece, a MIDI rock drum style in an electronic composition, etc. I know you're not speaking in absolutes, but wanted to point it out.
Besides, if you disagree, it's all your fault.
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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You are correct, I often end up using realtracks I didn't *think* were going to be what I wanted, but after experimenting I found they worked OK. Experimentation is some of the fun. However, some realtracks can be obvious that they are not what you need..
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Bob's excellent suggestion a few posts up of auditioning a short section of song in RealBand, to speed generation while trying out RealTracks, would be a great addition to the Tips and Tricks Forum.
If he doesn't put it there, it really will be his fault.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Anonymous
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The list of styles and choices for solos is similar to what I saw in the grocery store last night.
I turned a corner and found myself in the mouthwash aisle. There were 2 shelves, each 8 feet long, covered with different bottles of mouthwash. Do we need 16 linear feet of choices for mouthwash? I just want fresh breath.
So, the analogy.... do we need ALL those styles when the difference between a given group of 8-10 of them might be so imperceptible that they sound exactly the same to 99% of people? Have we come to a point with this stuff that more is no longer more? Particularly when it takes over 2 hours to sift through them......
Just asking for opinions and voicing mine.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Never enough realtracks 
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2007
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Quote:
Have we come to a point with this stuff that more is no longer more?
No. Just look at the Styles Wishlist.
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,105
Expert
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Expert
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Quote:
.... do we need ALL those styles when the difference between a given group of 8-10 of them might be so imperceptible that they sound exactly the same to 99% of people? Have we come to a point with this stuff that more is no longer more?
Just asking for opinions and voicing mine.
I don't think we have even come close to the point where more is no longer more. As long as PG Music keeps cranking out new real tracks of the quality they have been doing, I'll keep buying them.
As far as all of those different STYLES, I'm not sure I've ever started off with a style per se. I'm almost always just doing a blank slate and putting instruments together from various styles to come up with something that I hope is unique. I'm also using BIAB as a starting place only taking tracks and moving them into other programs and slicing the sections up, rearranging them, dropping sections of an instrument altogher in some places. To be perfectly honest, the way that I make music is a lot of work all the way around, so looking for things that go together is just part of the work process and not necessarily somthing that I mind all that much. I certainly would not want to say anything to discourage PG Music from continuing to expand the availalbe pallete of sounds that they have been giving me to work with. I'm looking forward to start hearing some things like Cajun Accordians, Dixieland, and lots more added to the library.
Last edited by KeithS; 07/20/11 09:39 AM.
Keith
2025 Audiophile Windows 11 RYZEN THREADRIPPER 3960X 4.5GHZ 128 GB RAM 2 Nvidia RTX 3090s, Vegas,Acid,SoundForge,Izotope Production,Melodyne Studio,SONAR,2 Raven Mti
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Expert
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I agree with Tony Wright that a lot of the RT after muting the "solo" parts are pretty generic, but that is the reason I use them. Like any tool I have on the system, I use them when I can, & move on when they don't fit...but it is fun to just select a style & start jamming with it. This is where you really "feel" the difference in the "feel", say between 2 country ballad styles....it's subtle, but there. Yes, most folks would never be able to tell WHAT is different, but they can tell that something is.... 
i5 3.20GHz, 32gb RAM, 1tb SSD OS, 12tb HDD, 4gb gForce vid card, 32" monitor, Audient id44, Win10 x64, BiaB/RB 2023, Reaper 6,IK Multimedia Total Studio 3.5 MAX, Waves 10
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2005
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Axey,
Inadvertently discovered this neat way to "Audition" each Realtrack.
You may already know this, but it is a tip if you dont.
Start up RB.
Right click approx center vertically in the "Untitled" box on left of track.
Left click on "Select and Generate Realtrack".
A nice screen with a listing of all of your RT's comes up.
Click on heading part TYPE*, it will group with their cousins.
One click on a RT
Click audition and it will play in WMP or player you normally use.
For next audition simply click next track one time, then audition
and it will start.
This does not assign a track to specific song, but does get you familiar
with what you have and how they sound.
For some reason, they sound better in the WMP than in the style to me.
Good luck !
Seeker
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Quote:
Just look at the Styles Wishlist.
I agree with that to a point when the wishlist is for a style that either doesn't exist yet or there is only one option. My point was that any given style (country waltz as an example) may have 30 flavors that are ALL pretty the same, so the question becomes why have so much redundancy, redundancy that just detracts from the time of creating music. Like I said in another thread, I have spent as much as 2 hours auditioning styles that had descriptions that either made no sense or made them look like the 29 other choices.
Sure if there is no "Cajun stomp with fiddle", let's add one. Or "Slovenian polka/Frankie Yankovic". Let's add one. But another 12 that are SO slightly different from many existing styles.... that is just more spam to sift through.
Rather than just whine, how about this suggestion?
I used country waltz as my example. Could we have them set up as
Country Waltz
as a category, then inside the category that wold be a drop down have
WITH FIDDLE
WITH PEDAL STEEL
WITH SLIDE GUITAR
WITH FIDDLE AND PEDAL STEEL
and so forth, and the from each of THOSE drop downs, have
option 1
option 2
option 3
Let me know where I am starting. I STILL don't know who George may be or what a train has to do with anything. Everybody doesn't know the history of music since the caveman days (sorry, Geico) or know dead musicians by first name to make the connection to what "George" is supposed to be in a style. I can name many people named George who have nothing to do with music.
Of course I am being sarcastic but do you get what I am saying? George Strait? George Jones? George Thorogood? George Gobel? George Clooney? George Lopez? George of the Jungle? Gorgeous George? Who is George and how is that supposed to give me an idea of the style?
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 8,021
Veteran
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Veteran
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Posts: 8,021 |
Quote:
Hi folks,
I love some of the great realtracks but usually just choose a midi style add a few specific realtracks and realdrums and thats it.
I notice that a lot of people just use realtracks only in their songs but I would think that unless one chooses an already made realtrack style it must take a considerable amount of time to audition maybe 5 or 6 different instruments in realtracks and get the right ones for the songs.
Just wondering if one wants a song with realtracks only (and doesn't want one of the ready made realtrack styles) is there any tips on speeding up the process of getting the right realtracks?
Thanks very much for any tips and advice.
Axey
I assume you'd prefer a Rubic's Cube with all the same color?
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Quote:
I assume you'd prefer a Rubic's Cube with all the same color?
No, but the cube only has 6 colors. Not thousands.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Quote:
I agree with that to a point when the wishlist is for a style that either doesn't exist yet or there is only one option. My point was that any given style (country waltz as an example) may have 30 flavors that are ALL pretty the same, so the question becomes why have so much redundancy, redundancy that just detracts from the time of creating music. Like I said in another thread, I have spent as much as 2 hours auditioning styles that had descriptions that either made no sense or made them look like the 29 other choices.
Sure if there is no "Cajun stomp with fiddle", let's add one. Or "Slovenian polka/Frankie Yankovic". Let's add one. But another 12 that are SO slightly different from many existing styles.... that is just more spam to sift through.
Rather than just whine, how about this suggestion?
I used country waltz as my example. Could we have them set up as
Country Waltz
as a category, then inside the category that wold be a drop down have
WITH FIDDLE
WITH PEDAL STEEL
WITH SLIDE GUITAR
WITH FIDDLE AND PEDAL STEEL
and so forth, and the from each of THOSE drop downs, have
option 1
option 2
option 3
Let me know where I am starting. I STILL don't know who George may be or what a train has to do with anything. Everybody doesn't know the history of music since the caveman days (sorry, Geico) or know dead musicians by first name to make the connection to what "George" is supposed to be in a style. I can name many people named George who have nothing to do with music.
Of course I am being sarcastic but do you get what I am saying? George Strait? George Jones? George Thorogood? George Gobel? George Clooney? George Lopez? George of the Jungle? Gorgeous George? Who is George and how is that supposed to give me an idea of the style?
I just read this again. My god I am such a nerd. Looking for hierarchical database structure in BIAB style selection.....
Nerd just never goes away.....
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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When ever i complained about my dinner as a child, maybe wanting my meat cut up, my mom always said "you want me to chew it for you too?"
I guess what i am saying is really? It is to much trouble to sift through the RTs? Really, wow just three years ago we did not have this option, and if you did not play that particular instrument you had to sift through endless loops, learn to program and doctor midi, or find a player to colab with. Now you just have to rummage around in a RT picker, that by the way will filter any way you want. By style, by instrument, by tempo, by player, by .... you get it, type in the filter and see what happens.
Don't get me wrong i am not really trying to give you a bad time, but how hard can it be, and actually is this not supposed to be fun? TRy stuff, experiment, enjoy the process.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2025, Realband, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 9 32c , Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Rob I know you aren't trying to give me a bad time, and I appreciate the interaction. What makes people people is the ability to exchange ideas. You have been at the core of some great conversation on here and this another of those times!
My bigger gripe is with the number of styles. When I hit the solo section and use Real Tracks it isn't as bad, but picking a style should not take 2 hours. My concern is that the descriptions do not really explain what I should expect when they contain people's names or a sound effects. So many words are geographic in nature.... and the "example songs" pretty much just take up screen space. I have yet to experience ONE style where the example song was even close to the style.
I started on BIAB just earlier this year so I have no way to know what you had and didn't have 3 years ago. My experience level is likely a huge part of why I post some of the things I post. If I want to sit down and do a country waltz, give me a small drum kit, "oompa" bass, and strummed guitar. Just give me that, let me enter the chord progression into the spreadsheet, and THEN let me tweak and add "George", and "Brad", and "Brent". At the start, I just need Eddie. When I have a song in my large and increasingly vacant head, I need to get that idea down NOW or it will be gone by the time I sort through 1400 styles, 1399 of which are wrong. I'll get around to piano and strings and pedal steel later when I have the foundation built.
Now, given what I described there, is there a way to DO that and due to my lack of experience I just don't know it?
The pulldown method I described earlier seems like a logic approach to sorting styles. Don't remove anything, just put in an alternative way to find what's there.
That whole "first name" thing I find increasingly annoying, at the same level as my desire to punch anybody in the face who says "Garth" to me. (That would be Mr. Brooks to you, you pompous jerk. You don't know him.) Take some guy who grew up in rural Oongaboonga and show him a style containing the name "Brent" and expect him to know who Brent Mason is..... c'mon now. Everybody doesn't know the name of every studio musician in Nashville. Ask 100 people to name more than 2 of "The Wrecking Crew" and see who can get past some combination of Glen Campbell, Hal Blaine, Barney Kessel, Carol Kaye, Tommy Tedesco and James Burton. I could probably go 10 names deep and I am a musician. Your average newbie buying BIAB likely never HEARD of The Wrecking Crew much less know that Leon Russell played keyboards in it.
Simple may not be better to the experienced, but it should be available to the NOT experienced.
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