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Everything I've read says there's no problem in the near future (say 15 years or so) and anybody over 50 has nothing to worry about, their benefits or current benefits going out now will not change. Longer term than that however and it's a problem. The bigger problem is how to get the average person to realize their long term retirement is up to them. The thing with so many people is they simply don't make enough money to start a long term savings plan in their 20'a or early 30's. That's when money is tightest, they just got married, they start having kids and most of us know how much that all costs. If a young person is smart enough to get a useful professional degree great but most don't have that or if they do have some kind of degree is a useless one like lib arts, psych, music (I know, I hate to say that but it's true). Or, they have no higher ed at all so where are they supposed to get any money to start saving? It's nice to lecture young people and all that but everybody knows that doesn't work. If some money isn't taken out right at the source forget it, it will just get spent and that's it. That's why even though I'm pretty conservative and I know the Republicans fought the whole idea of Social Security tooth and nail back in the day, it's completely necessary. Without it a whole lot of people will be screwed 30 years from now.
Mick, I doubt there's any warehouse like that but you're right about one thing, there never was any kind of "trust fund". That was simply a term the politicians used to sell the idea just like during the Bush/Gore campaign when Gore was talking about the SS lockbox. No lockbox, never was.
Bob
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will somebody who isn't involved in this discussion write down the names of those who are so you can look back a year from now and see if we've all had mysterious accidents?
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You're being silly Pat Ma .. .. ...*dropped signal*
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Quote:
Interesting topic; I'll take a crack at it. And won't get into politics:
Your example of the world's banks is in fact well known - why else would US and Canadian banks be worried about the welfare of European banks? This isn't a hypothesis - it's reality.
There are more possibilities:
Virtually every country that has a semblance of democracy, has realized that monopolies don't serve the country or the people well. Consequently, they have enacted anti-monopoly laws (anti-trust in the US).
The financial interests of companies/corporations are best served if they have a monopoly. By the same token, this isn't in the interests of the general population of the country as it limits competition which we pretty all believe is a good thing for society.
If companies weren't involved in creating monopolies (or groups of monopolies) the legislation wouldn't have been required. My naivety level is low enough that I know they are still attempting to create monopolies one way or another.
Background - interesting reading - I had no idea the concept has been around this long:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Competition_law
Glenn
Indeed. Democracy is in direction opposition to capitalism.
- Bud
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Unfortunately what we have is neither democracy nor capitalism, it's an oligarchy run by 1% of the population, the 1% that owns 25% of the money and would like to steal even more from you and I.
Bob "Notes" Norton  Norton Music
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Unfortunately what we have is neither democracy nor capitalism, it's an oligarchy run by 1% of the population, the 1% that owns 25% of the money and would like to steal even more from you and I.
I read 35% but not to quibble. You are exactly right. In 1975 the top 1% only controlled 9% of the wealth. It's not our imaginations. Things ARE getting worse.
There will always be a top 1% (duh) but the troubling thing is the ever widening gap.
- Bud
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Unfortunately what we have is neither democracy nor capitalism, it's an oligarchy run by 1% of the population, the 1% that owns 25% of the money and would like to steal even more from you and I.
Thank you Notes, this post is the reason I started this thread but I didn't want to raise this point myself. True enough, the top 1% of either individuals or organizations do have a growing disproprotionate percentage of wealth in the world but what I want to know is exactly how does that effect you and your business Notes? Exactly what mechanism is being used to steal from you personally and how much do you think was stolen from you last year?
I'm posing this question to Rubberball, Mick and Glenn too. Not starting a flame war or anything like that it's just you guys seem to agree with the "Occupy Wall Street" movement and I'm trying to understand what they and you really want and what you're really protesting against.
Capitalism is what allows you to make a living Notes. It's what provides all us regular folks with jobs. Sure there's plenty of capilist crooks around but still, what exactly do you guys want to happen or think should happen?
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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We all gotta have something to gripe about (or was that "something to believe in"?).
All I know is that I would far rather trust in Capitalists, who rather benefit from having me a healthy, paying customer, than in Government, where I'm just another mouth to feed, car on the road, etc.
Capitalists may be leeches, but they aren't snakes. I'll take my chances with the leeches...and don't sit too close or I just might latch on to you, LOL!
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Capitalism doesn’t allow Notes to make a living, Notes is able to make a living because he supplies a service that is appreciated by enough people. Supply and demand, which has nothing to do with Capitalism. Capitalism means something different to everybody, so it is not easy to discuss it without a proper definition. When most people talk about Capitalism today they mean global finance, with all its shortcomings. The only common denominator between Capitalism and honest work is money. Unfortunately Capitalism, like Socialism and Communism has got out of hand. They were all good ideas at the start, but somehow got derailed by greedy power grabbing people. We are heading for a situation where the financial institutions are so powerful as to be able to dictate money policy and therefore control the markets to their own ends, which will definitely be to most people’s disadvantage. The day money became a comodity in its own right and no longer just a means of payment, was the start of a general shift of power from the elected bodies to the private sector. They have the dollar and the pound stitched up and now they are going for the euro. There are no longer any checks and balances on the global financial system. You can see how all the European governments are helpless in the face of the attack on the euro. I think that people are starting to realise that it is now or never to get some form of control back from the private to the elected systems. If that doesn’t happen then our children’s children can look forward to a life of slavery. I think that cressjl is confusing hard working business people, who maybe make a lot of money but supply a value in return, with Capitalists. There is nothing wrong with money, the problem starts when the system that controls it is greedy and is out for world dominance.
Chris
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Quote:
Quote:
Unfortunately what we have is neither democracy nor capitalism, it's an oligarchy run by 1% of the population, the 1% that owns 25% of the money and would like to steal even more from you and I.
Thank you Notes, this post is the reason I started this thread but I didn't want to raise this point myself. True enough, the top 1% of either individuals or organizations do have a growing disproprotionate percentage of wealth in the world but what I want to know is exactly how does that effect you and your business Notes? Exactly what mechanism is being used to steal from you personally and how much do you think was stolen from you last year?
I'm posing this question to Rubberball, Mick and Glenn too. Not starting a flame war or anything like that it's just you guys seem to agree with the "Occupy Wall Street" movement and I'm trying to understand what they and you really want and what you're really protesting against.
Capitalism is what allows you to make a living Notes. It's what provides all us regular folks with jobs. Sure there's plenty of capilist crooks around but still, what exactly do you guys want to happen or think should happen?
Bob
Good question
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Quote:
I'm posing this question to Rubberball, Mick and Glenn too. Not starting a flame war or anything like that it's just you guys seem to agree with the "Occupy Wall Street" movement and I'm trying to understand what they and you really want and what you're really protesting against.
Nothing could be further from the truth concerning me. I believe in the free market. The "free" market. The one that the government stays the hell out of.
As far as who has what wealth??? I couldn't care less. I create my own wealth. Always have - always will. The "man" doesn't have his foot on my neck. I am NOT a victim.
As a side note...
There is this notion, among many, that there is this "one pie" & a small group of people have most of it.
The only way they could have gotten so much of it is by screwing every one they come in contact with.
There is not one pie. There are as many pies as there are people. We create our own.
Every time we do or create something of value, we create wealth that didn't exist before.
Last edited by Mick Emery; 10/25/11 01:46 PM.
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Good answer Mick and I guess I misunderstood you earlier.
Bob
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Money=power. Always has. The more money you can make off other people's work the more power you have. The more power, the more you can make off them. AND, if you can get 99% of the people who make you rich think that's good, you have really got them beat.
- Bud
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The more money you can make off other people's work the more power you have. The more power, the more you can make off them. AND, if you can get 99% of the people who make you rich think that's good, you have really got them beat.
If all those greedy bastards stopped accepting jobs, this tyranny would end. ROTFL!!!
Last edited by Mick Emery; 10/26/11 02:15 PM.
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Excellent point Mick. No greedy bastards = NO JOBS! More greedy bastards = MORE JOBS! I vote for more greedy bastards so the other 99% of us will have jobs.  It's so simple you'd think even a first grader would understand it, but it still appears to be lost on a large percentage of people. 
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I vote for more greedy bastards so the other 99% of us will have jobs.
Either ways it works, but what I was actually referring to were the greedy workers who only take jobs to line their own pockets! They're only out for themselves.... Making a living at the expense of the poor unemployed.
Last edited by Mick Emery; 10/26/11 04:55 PM.
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Quote:
Quote:
I vote for more greedy bastards so the other 99% of us will have jobs.
Either ways it works, but what I was actually referring to were the greedy workers who only take jobs to line their own pockets! They're only out for themselves.... Making a living at the expense of the poor unemployed.
Good one Mick . . . now you got me on the floor!
Later,
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Quote:
More greedy bastards = MORE JOBS!
More greedy bastards = MORE JOBS!-- LESS PAY!!
Chris
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Quote:
Quote:
More greedy bastards = MORE JOBS!
More greedy bastards = MORE JOBS!-- LESS PAY!!
Does not the free market dictate pay levels in relationship to one's individual skills/education/training/experience and market demand?
Either way what's the alternartive . . . Less greedy bastards = NO JOBS!-- NO PAY!!
Later,
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will somebody who isn't involved in this discussion write down the names of those who are so you can look back a year from now and see if we've all had mysterious accidents?
amen!!
i've been thinking the same thing and not sure even that's safe
Last edited by pghboemike; 10/27/11 01:30 PM.
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