|
Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 39
Enthusiast
|
OP
Enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 39 |
BiaB overlays two common scale positions on the fretboard display: Aeolian and Phrygian. NOTE: do not confuse "modes" with "positions". A guitar scale "position" simply refers to the position of your hand, and has nothing to do with the diatonic mode of the scale you're playing. Having the positions visibly available for reference is a nice feature and all, but why are there only two positions? Guitarists tend to play diatonic scales in a few different ways:
- Scales that span 4 frets
- "3 note per string" scales (spanning more than 4 frets)
- Sliding scales (more than 3 notes per string)
There are, of course, other ways to play scales, but these methods are the most ergonomically simple to play, so they are the most common ways that books tend to teach people to play guitar. I tend to switch positions all over the place and I do not constrain myself to a certain area on the fretboard. BiaB's Aeolian and Phrygian positions fit into the first category, since they span 4 frets each. There are actually 5 possible positions that span 4 frets each for all diatonic scales. So, my question is: Why is BiaB limiting me to only two out of those five? I like to play in all positions on the guitar, not just two. For reference, the 5 positions that span 4 frets are:
- Dorian (starting on 2)
- Phrygian (starting on 3)
- Mixolydian (starting on 5)
- Aeolian (starting on 6)
- Locrian (starting on 7)
An ionian position (starting on 1) or a lydian position (starting on 4) would give you a 3-note-per-string scale instead of a 4-fret scale, which is why they are not included in the list above. Anyway... Is there any setting that will make BiaB show additional positions, or better yet, ALL positions at the same time? If not, let me know, and I will add this to the Wishlist forum. Thanks! TheSleeve
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 8,333
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 8,333 |
I know nothing about guitars but do know this: Check out PG`s brother, who laid down lots of the jazz realtracks. http://www.olivergannon.com/Click on biography. Maybe `they` will answer!
John Conley
Musica est vita
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 39
Enthusiast
|
|
OP
Enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 39 |
Thanks, John. I would love to hear from one of the Gannons!
My assumption is that those two positions are simply the most popular among jazz players, which might explain why they were selected. It would be nice, however, to have all positions available. I don't want to be boxed in!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,026
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,026 |
I would like that too ,be a good wishlist idea !
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,957
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,957 |
I don't fully understand. I can select any fret on the fretboard to play the melody notes in BIAB. It may not show the note names but will play in that position adn therefore use different figering patterns. Or maybe I don't get your point. I actually don't use BIAB to show me how to play the guitar, seems like that may be asking a little too much.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 15,975
PG Music Staff
|
|
PG Music Staff
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 15,975 |
As Jazzmandan points out, you can click on any fret, to get the position that you want. We only display note names in the 2 positions, but there is overlap so you will see some note names in all positions.
As an aside, in the '70s at Berklee (Boston), they taught us to play scales in 12 positions. For example, you can play a C scale in every fret position. A little funky, but a good exercise nonetheless.
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 15,975
PG Music Staff
|
|
PG Music Staff
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 15,975 |
>>>
For reference, the 5 positions that span 4 frets are:
Dorian (starting on 2)
Phrygian (starting on 3)
Mixolydian (starting on 5)
Aeolian (starting on 6)
Locrian (starting on 7)
-------------------
I think some people refer to those 5 positions as CAGED system, since they corrsepond to certain chords if played in Open position.
i.e.
C Phrygian (starting on 3)
A Mixolydian (starting on 5)
G Aeolian (starting on 6)
E Locrian (starting on 7)
D Dorian (starting on 2)
My thinking was, that if we show note names for all of them, the entire guitar would get lit up with note names, and it would be hard to see any scale patterns at all. So we just show 2 - Phrygian, Aolian.
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 39
Enthusiast
|
|
OP
Enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 39 |
Hi Peter and Jazzmandan,
Thanks very much for your thoughtful responses.
First of all, I had no idea that I could click on any fret to have BIAB use that position for playing the melody. Very interesting. I will be sure to make use of that feature.
Jazzmandan, I'm certainly not using BIAB to show me how to play guitar, but I like listening to, watching, and then emulating some of the more interesting soloists by looking directly at the fretboard view as they play. For the most part, the melodists tend to stick to only two positions and it has irked me a bit because I always wondered why other parts of the fretboard weren't fully utilized. Now that you taught me the way to manually switch positions, I'll be able to bypass that limitation and view the melody all over the fretboard as I see fit. So, thanks for the tip!
Peter, that's correct. The five 4-fret patterns are indeed the very same as the notorious CAGED system. Believe it or not, I had been playing guitar for a good 15 years (using mostly sheet music and my ears) before I had ever heard of this whole CAGED concept. It is, in a sense, a bit limiting... but for some guitarists, CAGED is their mantra from day one. So, if you don't mind, I'll go ahead make a request on the wishlist forum for the option to allow users to view more positions than just Aeolian and Phrygian. There's definitely an educational merit to having additional freedom in displaying those reference overlays.
You went to Berklee in the 70s? Cool! I went there in the 00s. I live across the river in Cambridge now. Things might have changed a bit over the years, but I think they still use a lot of the same theory textbooks have been staples since their early days.
By the way, I'm going to buy Oliver's Jazz Master Course sometime in the next few weeks. I've got a handle on the basics, and I really can't wait to learn some more advanced concepts!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 8,333
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 8,333 |
Wow, I'm somewhat flabbergasted.
I'm no guitar guy, and make fun of them when I can. I do the same with Romanian gypsy finnish speaking reindeer.
I'm glad you found common ground so to speak and I wish everyone would see the depth in this software. It's not for dummies, there are real people who've actually stood in the background of this product, and it's crazy good to see.
Onwards and upwards.
John Conley
Musica est vita
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 15,975
PG Music Staff
|
|
PG Music Staff
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 15,975 |
))) By the way, I'm going to buy Oliver's Jazz Master Course sometime in the next few weeks. I've got a handle on the basics, and I really can't wait to learn some more advanced concepts!
Cool! Oliver went to Berklee in the '60s, all 4 years and got a degree. Boston is a great city.
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502 |
Quote:
By the way, I'm going to buy Oliver's Jazz Master Course sometime in the next few weeks. I've got a handle on the basics, and I really can't wait to learn some more advanced concepts!
You won't be disappointed. A super value there -- and something for most everyone, no matter what level they play at.
Have Fun,
--Mac
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 39
Enthusiast
|
|
OP
Enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 39 |
John,
Here's an interesting anecdote for you.
[anecdote]
Most non-guitarists realize that a single note can be played in several different positions on the neck.
What most non-guitarists don't realize (actually, most guitarists probably don't realize it either) is that each position has a significant difference in timbre, which is basically due to the thickness of each string being different, and the length of the string changing when the same note is played on different strings. This alters the harmonic content of the sound.
This is why guitarists have an extra layer of emotion that they can add onto their playing, if they care to explore it. You can play one phrase in one position on the guitar and it will sound a certain way. You can then move that phrase to a different position but play the exact same notes, rhythm, expression, etc... and you will get something that sounds totally different. ...at least to my ears.
That's why being able to play any note / scale / chord in any position on the guitar is important. It opens up a world of sonic and emotional possibilities.
An extension of this is seen in some styles of "flatpicking", where the same note is played over and over in rapid succession, but on alternating strings. A non-guitarist would look at the sheet music for this and just see the same note in rapid succession... Boring! However, if the guitarist plays alternating notes on alternating strings, the tonal qualities of the sound will change, even though the pitch is exactly the same. Listening to that kind of playing... even a non-guitarist can tell that something cool is happening!
It's kind of like if you sat a tuba and a trombone next to each other and played alternating eighth notes back and forth between the instruments.
[/anecdote]
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,574
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,574 |
A tuba and a baritone (both conical bore, different register) might be a better comparison? But, that's a very good point about all the choice a guitarist has for each note. Thanks for the explanation.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,957
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,957 |
Quote:
.. a tuba and a trombone next to each other and played alternating eighth notes back and forth between the instruments.
Now that would be a concert 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,574
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,574 |
Ask John Conley. He performs them!
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 8,333
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 8,333 |
I played assistant prof. this fall for a music appreciation class.
This was due to several factors:
1. The Doc who teaches it leads one of the bands I play in.
2. It was on my bucket list.
and there I was with 105 17 yr. old first year students. Wow. Classes were Mon. Wed. Fri. 12:30 to 1:30.
I got to explain chordophones, using a piano as an example, but did look at strings and I brought some digital photos of string winders in the piano tech department. Interesting subject.
As to lip vibrated aerophones I'm now doing that in 3 bands. Brute for punishment eh?
I know lots about guitars because my first girlfriend played the 12 sting, so on that baby you have more chances to make notes with adjacent strings. She also taught me a lot of the french I know.
I'm enjoying the concert band I'm playing in. We practise on Tuesdays 2 to 4, but have a concert every other Tuesday in some Nursing Home or Hospital.
I love playing the baritone. Most of the guys get a bit snobby and have to buy some compensating valve euphonium. Mine are more like a tenorhorn, but not like a horn horn or Eb.
If that makes any sense.
John Conley
Musica est vita
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502 |
I say that "the sleeve" speaks a basic truth up there. Much more than an anecdote IMO.
And said very well, I might add.
The same note can indeed be played in different positions on different strings. The string gauge plus the fretted length of string work together to make that "same" note sound a bit different due to the overtone series imparted by the differing parameters.
In other words, the Timbre of the note will be different, even though the Fundamental is the same.
--Mac
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,957
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,957 |
And don't forget the nuances of a pick versus a finger nail versus the pad of the thumb... and the pickups(neck versus bridge) and position where the string is struck (high or low over the sound hole) and dare I even suggest that an upward or downward pick direction, the muting of strings with either left or right hand can impact the sound. In the hands of a master the sounds can be rich indeed!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 928
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 928 |
Quote:
(PG-->)
I think some people refer to those 5 positions as CAGED system, since they corrsepond to certain chords if played in Open position.
For those interested, this was one of the first bibles of the CAGED system:
And the great fingerstyle guitar player Ernie Hawkins has a whole series of DVDs on it:
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502 |
The actual CAGED system may just be a bit older than those books, for example, I first heard of it via Tal Farlow, who called it, "Scaling from Chord Patterns" as an example of how he solo'd in jazz. Then I became aware of quite a few guitarists "back in the day" who thought in that fashion, "CAGED". I think that it is important to emphasize that this system is just another way of thinking about the same things and that there are also other approaches.
Anyway, it was the beginning for me of identifying exactly the scale steps involved in each and every chord pattern played and then working out the fingering for the missing scales steps in between. As it turned out, it was perhaps not the shortcut that it lookied to be, *grin* but it most certainly was a great tool in the eventual total mapping of the neck for me.
As with so many things musical, this one is a matter of perception. If the CAGED system helps you to perceive the thing more easily, that's good, man.
--Mac
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
XPro & Xtra Styles PAK Sets On Sale Now - Until May 15, 2026!
All of our XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAKs are on sale until May 15th, 2026!
It's the perfect time to expand your Band-in-a-Box® style library with XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs. These additional styles for Band-in-a-Box® offer a wide range of genres designed to fit seamlessly into your projects. Each style is professionally arranged and mixed, helping enhance your songs while saving you time.
What are XPro Styles and Xtra Styles PAKs?
XPro Styles PAKs are styles that work with any version (Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition) of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). XPro Styles PAKS 1-10 includes 1,000 styles!
Xtra Styles PAKs are styles that work with the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). Xtra Styles PAKs 1-21 includes 3,700 styles (and 35 MIDI styles)!
The XPro & Xtra Styles PAKs are not included in any Band-in-a-Box® package.
The XPro Styles PAKs 1-10 are available for only $29 ea (reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Listen to demos and order now! For Mac or for Windows.
The Xtra Styles PAKs 1-21 are available for only $29 ea (reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the Xtra Styles PAK Bundle for only $199 (reg. $349)! Listen to demos and order now! For Mac or for Windows.
Note: XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 19 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version as they require the RealTracks included in the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Supercharge your Band-in-a-Box today with XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAK Sets!
Band-in-a-Box 2026 for Mac Videos
With the release of Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac, we’re rolling out a collection of brand-new videos on our YouTube channel. We’ll keep this forum post updated so you can easily find all the latest videos in one convenient spot.
Whether you're exploring new features, checking out the latest RealTracks or Style PAKs, this is your go-to guide for Band-in-a-Box® 2026.
Check out this forum post for "One Stop Shopping" of our Band-in-a-Box® 2026 Mac Videos!
Band-in-a-Box 2026 for Mac is Here!
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac is here and it is packed with major new features! There’s a new modern look, a GUI redesign to all areas of the program including toolbars, windows, workflow and more. There’s a Multi-view layout for organizing multiple windows. A standout addition is the powerful AI-Notes feature, which uses AI neural-net technology to transcribe polyphonic audio into MIDI—entire mixes or individual instruments—making it easy to study, view, and play parts from any song. And that’s just the beginning—there are over 100 new features in this exciting release.
Along with version 2026, we've released an incredible lineup of new content! There's 202 new RealTracks, brand-new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two new RealDrums Stems sets, XPro Styles PAK 10, Xtra Styles PAK 21, and much more!
Special Offers
Upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac and save up to 50% on most upgrade packages during our special offer—available until May 15, 2026. Visit our Band-in-a-Box® packages page to explore all available upgrade options.
2026 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK Add-ons
Our Free Bonus PAK and 49-PAK are loaded with amazing add-ons! The Free Bonus PAK is included with most Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac packages, but you can unlock even more—including 20 unreleased RealTracks—by upgrading to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49.
Holiday Weekend Hours
As we hop into the Easter weekend, here are our holiday hours:
April 3 (Good Friday): 8:00 AM – 4:00 PM PDT
April 4 (Saturday): Closed
April 5 (Easter Sunday): Closed
April 6 (Easter Monday): Open regular hours
Wishing you an egg-cellent weekend!
— Team PG
Update to Build 10 of RealBand® 2026 for Windows®!
If you're already using RealBand 2026 for Windows, download build 10 to get all the latest additions and enhancements.
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® users: Build 904 now available!
If you're already using Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®, make sure to grab the latest update! Build 904 is now available for download and includes the newest additions and enhancements from our team.
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® users: Build 1237 is now available!
Already a Band-in-a-Box 2026 for Windows user? Stay up to date and download the build 1237 to get all the latest additions and enhancements.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums57
Topics86,225
Posts802,109
Members40,071
| |
Most Online64,515
Apr 8th, 2026
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean