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Joined: Feb 2007
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Quote:
http://www.nortonmusic.com/mp3/_sunshinesax.mp3
http://www.nortonmusic.com/mp3/_capecodsax.mp3
... And I played those parts myself. They were played on a Yamaha VL70m synth module with aftermarket patches. Every note was my choice, not the expression of a different player. With MIDI, I don't have to just listen to someone else's sax solo, but I get to play one myself. The same goes for trumpet, trombone, clarinet, oboe, violin, cello, and hundreds of other instruments. It's like the difference between playing music and doing karaoke to me.
Those saxes sound pretty good. Did you play those parts live on a keyboard or through your Yamaha WX5 Wind MIDI controller? I do think there is a world of difference between
a) playing a midi part through a midi-wind instrument (or Mick's Synthophone) and
b) typing a midi part into a notation chart and adding synth patches to that.
The one thing I have to admit to -- the idea of playing a gig with backing tracks that you slaved over to make them the best they can be is better than just using canned RT's (from a self satisfaction standpoint and probably quality, too). If I was great with midi and had the right sound modules, I would do a whole lot more in the midi world (but I am not ... and I don't -- ha, ha). From a recording aspect, I have been quite pleased with the RT's -- but again, if I was great with midi I would use that too.
Kevin
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Mick it wasn't a stab a a skilled controller user like you ,if you don't have any controller and write a melody line in midi it rarely has sound properties of a wind controller and none of a sax .
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Quote:
Mick it wasn't a stab a a skilled controller user like you ,if you don't have any controller and write a melody line in midi it rarely has sound properties of a wind controller and none of a sax .
It could IF one would learn the ins and outs of midi controllers, CCs and pitch bend, and the nuances of the instrument they are trying to emulate. Granted this takes a lot of time and patience to do however the results can be very satisfying. If you are just using notes with no CCs or pitch bend then yes that will sound nothing like the real instrument.
For years I used to use the above method, even with my guitar controller. I still use it with the wind controller but I’m doing a lot less editing now.
I would like to add two things to this thread:
First, as it’s been said before, RTs, RD and Midi are tools to be used. Choose whatever fits for you and/or the song you are working on.
Second PGMusic has spent a lot of time and effort into RTs and RBs. I don’t blame them as it was and still is an excellent business move. A lot of people, including me a heavy midi user, are happy with the results. I for one thought that midi was dead in BiaB. I’m very thankful that the PGMusic staff in at least thinking about improving the midi side of things. If Biab 2012 is any indication I think Midi will improve more rapidly now in PGmusic’s programs.
OK, a random thought;
Why does toilet paper need a commercial? Who's not buying it?
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Quote:
Mick it wasn't a stab a a skilled controller user like you ,if you don't have any controller and write a melody line in midi it rarely has sound properties of a wind controller and none of a sax .
Oh!....I hadn't thought of it as a stab at all! I wasn't sure if a lot of people weren't aware of some of the things available today. (with the promise of an even brighter future)
Mick
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OK, if I missed this in the wanderings of the thread please ignore, but....
Mr. Norton, what synth do YOU use & recommend for midi. Because myself, I have never heard a convincing midi band, I am NOT talking about a single instrument. The demos for the S2? did not really impress me as much as I expected, tho they were far and away some of the best I have hears...
Anyway, just wondering what you use...
i5 3.20GHz, 32gb RAM, 1tb SSD OS, 12tb HDD, 4gb gForce vid card, 32" monitor, Audient id44, Win10 x64, BiaB/RB 2023, Reaper 6,IK Multimedia Total Studio 3.5 MAX, Waves 10
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Hi Mr Norton,
Just thought I would run it past you when you are on the forum, I have your styles installed in a separate folder called Norton and just browse to it when I want to open a song with band in a box.
1 Now with the new feature in band in a box where I can add a track from a different style to the current song, how would I add a different track from one of your styles to an already open style of yours?
2 I am guessing that to be able to do this I may have to get the stylepicker to recognise your styles. Do I just make a new styles folder number 78 and add your styles to this, then band in a box stylepicker will recognise them?
Thanks for your time,
Regards
Jan
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I keep all my Norton styles in the main BIAB folder, where the PGMusic styles are located; however, if you want to keep them separate, BIAB recognizes (and builds the stylepicker based on) style files located either in the main BIAB folder (e.g., C:\BIAB) and/or in a sub-folder called Styles (e.g., C:\BIAB\Styles). If you copy your Norton styles to the Styles folder, then Stylepicker picks those up, but you keep the PGMusic and Norton styles separated.
Alternately, all the Norton Styles start with a # sign; PGMusic styles do not; so if you filter on style files that start with a # sign, you'll find all of Norton's, even in the big BIAB folder.
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 12TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 12TB SATA BB2026/UMC204HD&404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/Notion/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com (under rehosting/construction)
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Apprentice
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Thank you very much John, that has been a great help to me.
Happy Christmas.
Regards
Jan
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I was going to answer that, but John beat me to it. Thanks, John! Also, if you download the style picker support files from this page, http://www.nortonmusic.com/support.html the Norton Music styles will appear in the Style Picker window in their own categories below the PG Music styles. Once they are in the same folder as the PG styles you will be able to do anything with the Norton Styles that you can do with the PG styles. Notes ♫
Bob "Notes" Norton  Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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.
Hi Bob!
This thread could serve as a shining example of how to conduct an online discussion on a potentially controversial subject. Thanks for keeping it civil.
I love Real Tracks. They have opened up whole new areas of "composition" that I could not have explored before. I have some stuff on Youtube that I am real proud of. These could not have been done without RTs, but they are not RT-only. In places I wrote MIDI parts because I needed specific notes, melodies and counter-melodies. Even using Coyote I got good results when blended with RTs. I often add MIDI drums under the Real Drums when I need to fatten up the beat.
It is clear to me that MIDI will never go away, and PG respects this.
Since v2012 came out I have been playing with VSTs in BiaB and the new Pick-a-Part-from-MIDI-styles features. Seems to me that these are pretty major developments. I can now try lots of different MIDI guitars, pianos, etc, and then freeze the parts and edit as needed.
I would say that PG has not neglected MIDI users. These features - freezing any part, multi-VSTs and selectable MIDI parts are major steps. They reflect consideration for the MIDI user in a meaningful way.
.
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I like ALL of the options... the MIDI, the real tracks, the loops, plus all of the proprietary stuff that nobody else has. I like the fact that you can add new features without taking previous features away... to me, that is the definition of improvement
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Quote:
<...>
Those saxes sound pretty good. Did you play those parts live on a keyboard or through your Yamaha WX5 Wind MIDI controller? I do think there is a world of difference between
a) playing a midi part through a midi-wind instrument (or Mick's Synthophone) and
b) typing a midi part into a notation chart and adding synth patches to that.
The one thing I have to admit to -- the idea of playing a gig with backing tracks that you slaved over to make them the best they can be is better than just using canned RT's (from a self satisfaction standpoint and probably quality, too). If I was great with midi and had the right sound modules, I would do a whole lot more in the midi world (but I am not ... and I don't -- ha, ha). From a recording aspect, I have been quite pleased with the RT's -- but again, if I was great with midi I would use that too.
Kevin
a) I played the say parts with my WX5 Wind MIDI controller. I find it's the best controller for wind instrument emulations.
b) Furthermore, I don't think typing the parts into a notation chart and adding synth patches is an acceptable way to make music, unless you are doing Techno or another form of music that is supposed to be robotic. Whether you use a keyboard, wind, guitar, percussion, tactile, or any other type of MIDI controller, IMO it is important to play the parts in real time if you want them to sound played when you play it back. Real music breathes, step input does not.
I started using MIDI tracks because there wasn't any option back in the 1980s. My first ones weren't all that good, but like any musical instrument, the MIDI sequencer gets better with practice.
When pre-recorded loops came out, I was enamored for a few months, but the honeymoon was over when I realized just how limiting they were. Sure the tone is good, but I was stuck with what someone else played and there was no way to customize it to my own preferences, even if the song desperately needed some editing.
Now don't get me wrong, PG has done some great things with the loops, but they are still non-editable. If I want to change a bass note or two to fit the turn around, or if I want to put a kick in the music, or if I want to keep the same part but put it on a different instrument, I cannot. And these are all very easy edits in MIDI. And if I cannot do these simple edits, there are a lot more complicated edits that I cannot do either.
I'm happy that PG is not abandoning the MIDI part of their excellent program for the RTs, but I still am hoping for more MIDI improvements of the types that others and I have put in the wish list.
Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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Quote:
.
Hi Bob!
This thread could serve as a shining example of how to conduct an online discussion on a potentially controversial subject. Thanks for keeping it civil.<...>
Thanks for the kind words.
Everybody has a right to their own opinion, even if it is wrong <INSERT BIG GRIN AND WINK HERE> which of course means even if they disagree with me <INSERT BIGGER GRIN AND WINK HERE>
Seriously, it's all good and I love to debate, but hate to argue.
Bob
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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