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Joined: May 2000
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PG Music Staff
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OP
PG Music Staff
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 15,831 |
A number of people have posted a similar request, namely to increase the MIDI resolution of Band-in-a-Box, from 120 PPQ to something higher (like 960 PPQ).
This post is to let people know that we won't be able to implement that feature, but we also don't think it would be needed, or even detectable on listening.
So here's an explanation of why we're not implemeting that, and also why we don't think it would be needed or even detectable.
First of all, let me say that if we were starting Band-in-a-Box "from scratch", then yes of course we'd make the timing resolution a huge number, there'd be no reason not to. But with an existing application, and all kinds of file formats, then there are a lot of "reasons not to".
OK, here is the explanation:
Band-in-a-Box's current timing resolution is 120 PPQ. This is 4 milliseconds (ms) at a tempo of 120. This is great timing resolution, and in our tests, noone can hear differences below that.
Q. How good is 4ms timing per note?
A. It's great, and there are other areas of your PC, and MIDI setup that are way worse than that.
- sound travels 1 foot per ms. So if you are playing live with a person 2 feet away, you are already experiencing a 4ms latency (2ms to get to you, and 2ms getting back to you). Would you notice a latency there?
- Computer's have a timing accuracy of 1ms "SOME OF THE TIME". Music program ask for timing interrupts every 1ms, but in practice, Windows priorities things, and sometimes you don't get a timing interreupt for up to 30ms (if a video driver is updating screen for example, you are shut out). So increasing timing resolution better than 4ms would have no effect on that, you would still hear periods where timing resolution would be much less.
- MIDI standard itself takes 1 ms to transmit each note. SO if you're using a hardware MIDI module for playback, you're currently not seeing anything close to 4ms timing accuracy, you're getting only 35 ms accuracy (at times in the song). For example, at the begninning of a bar, there may be 5 note offs, 10 note ons, and that's 15ms delay before the last note is received. Then it takes a typical MIDI module up to 20ms to get those notes played - so that's a 35ms delay, which is far worse than BB's 4ms timing.
*** If you are using a MIDI Hardware module, and you are bothered by timing, you should switch to a software synth - there is no timing issue there ***
(Note: Please note that I am referring to timing accuracy as the song plays, the bad thing about hardware MIDI is that the timing CHANGES as the song is played. Software synths have a latency, but it is FIXED. By analogy, satellite radio has a fixed latency, but the latency (timing) doesn't change as the song plays, so it sounds perfect,
Q. OK, I understand the above, but, still, why don't you ignore all that, and increase resolution anyway, if only to please customers who would like it done even if they can't detect a difference.
A. There a bunch of reasons why it would make Band-in-a-Box a worse program.
- format of styles and songs would need to change. This means that any styles or songs made in the new version wouldn't play on older Band-in-a-Box's. We have carefully preserved this song and style format, so that customers get forward and backward compatibility.
- None of the existing 2,000 or so styles that we have already made would sound any different, since they'd be the old resolution. Noone would want to pay to get higher res versions of styles, because they couldn't hear any difference anyway.
- No existing songs are going to sound any different (since they are still at the old resolution)
- hundreds (possibly thousands) of routines that have worked for years in BIAB would need to be rewritten, leading to new bugs in old code that worked fine.
- it would take a huge amount of time, instead of adding other features that people would notice.
One option that we could add easily, is a setting for export of MIDI files, to export them at, for example 960 PPQ instead of 120 PPQ. That would allow people who work at that res in other DAWS to at least get the files transferred at the same PPQ. Of course BB would still be working at 120PPQ internally.
I hope that this explains our position.
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
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Quote:
One option that we could add easily, is a setting for export of MIDI files, to export them at, for example 960 PPQ instead of 120 PPQ. That would allow people who work at that res in other DAWS to at least get the files transferred at the same PPQ. Of course BB would still be working at 120PPQ internally.
Given the above explanation, this would be great.
I suspect that the reason most want greater than 120 is not so much for the accompaniment tracks, but the melody and soloist track. Greater than 120 allows for much greater expressiveness (perhaps continuous controllers with finer granularity for pitch bends or glissandos. The higher number can allow for a more natural performance when entering the melody or solo. It also allows for finer granularity when editing accompanying audio, as well.
Just my $0.02 worth.
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA BB2025/UMC404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com
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Quote:
Quote:
One option that we could add easily, is a setting for export of MIDI files, to export them at, for example 960 PPQ instead of 120 PPQ. That would allow people who work at that res in other DAWS to at least get the files transferred at the same PPQ. Of course BB would still be working at 120PPQ internally.
Given the above explanation, this would be great.
I suspect that the reason most want greater than 120 is not so much for the accompaniment tracks, but the melody and soloist track. Greater than 120 allows for much greater expressiveness (perhaps continuous controllers with finer granularity for pitch bends or glissandos. The higher number can allow for a more natural performance when entering the melody or solo. It also allows for finer granularity when editing accompanying audio, as well.
Just my $0.02 worth.
A BIG +1
Thanx for the explanation.
I got myself a seniors' GPS. Not only does it tell me how to get to my destination , it tells me why I wanted to go there.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Joined: Apr 2008
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Expert
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Expert
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A Great explanation, I didn't know how much I didn't know. I think the export feature would be a great plus for those who would use it.
One question is: Does the resolution of 120 verses say 960 have any effect on the editing process?
Thanks Peter for taking the time.
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Peter, i really appreciate the explanation, it helps us understand. While you do not owe us an explanation for every issue, maybe once in a while one like this might help us not hound Y'all (funny southern expression) over some stuff. Like the VSTi tempo lock, or such.
It would be interesting to understand why somethings are not addressed. I know it would keep clamoring in the masses down a notch or three.
Respectfully, Rob
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2025, Realband, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 9 32c , Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app.
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Excellent explanation, Peter, and very much appreciated. I do throw a big +1 on top of everybody else's for the higher-res MIDI export.
I am asking this only out of curiosity at this point: Does this have anything at all to do with the 256-bar limit?
Best, Tom SmithWin10/64 • i7-8700K • 24 GB RAM BIAB 2025 • Reaper 7 • Izotope MPS AKG C1000S • IK iRig I/O Pro
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PG Music Staff
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OP
PG Music Staff
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 15,831 |
>> Does this have anything at all to do with the 256-bar limit?
Hi Tom,
No, those issues are unrelated.
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
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Very informative. I'm happy with the present setup for now.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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This should be duplicated in the band in a box forum, and made sticky here. In my crumble opinion.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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That is a good idea Peter for a check-box export of MIDI at 960 PPQ ,it should satisfy those who want the resolution higher and have the time to edit it. Hope it won't detract from making more Real Tracks for those that don't have thousands of dollars just to make a midi song sound usable . For me midi died the day Real Tracks got here ,just me and my ears opinion .
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have a good time. 
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Well, I'm glad there's an explanation to this on going issue. Yes,
I agree having an option to export or save as 960 or higher than 120
would be a great improvement. Maybe midi is not lost after all?
Especially for those of us who still use it for writing and editing.
Thanks Peter for BIAB and the reasons why....
Wrkinit
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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Mac 2025 Special Upgrade Offers Extended Until August 15th!
It's not too late to upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® and save! We've extended our special until August 15, 2025!
We've added many major new features to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®, including advanced AI tools like the amazing BB Stem Splitter and AI Lyrics Generator, as well as VST3 plugin support, and Equalize Temp. Plus, there’s a new one-stop MIDI Patches Picker with over 1,100 MIDI patches to choose from, all neatly categorized by GM numbers. The MultiPicker Library is enhanced with tabs for the SongPicker, MIDI Patch Picker, Chord Builder, AI Lyrics Generator, and Song Titles Browser, and the tabs are organized into logical groups. The Audiophile Edition is enhanced with FLAC files , which are 60% smaller than AIFF files while maintaining identical audio quality, and now ships on a fast 1TB SSD, and much more!
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New RealTracks Released with Band-in-a-Box 2025!
We’ve expanded the Band-in-a-Box® RealTracks library with 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 449-467) across Jazz, Blues, Funk, World, Pop, Rock, Country, Americana, and Praise & Worship—featuring your most requested styles!
Jazz, Blues & World (Sets 449–455):
These RealTracks includes “Soul Jazz” with Neil Swainson (bass), Mike Clark (drums), Charles Treadway (organ), Miles Black (piano), and Brent Mason (guitar). Enjoy “Requested ’60s” jazz, classic acoustic blues with Colin Linden, and more of our popular 2-handed piano soloing. Plus, a RealTracks first—Tango with bandoneon, recorded in Argentina!
Rock & Pop (Sets 456–461):
This collection includes Disco, slap bass ‘70s/‘80s pop, modern and ‘80s metal with Andy Wood, and a unique “Songwriter Potpourri” featuring Chinese folk instruments, piano, banjo, and more. You’ll also find a muted electric guitar style (a RealTracks first!) and “Producer Layered Guitar” styles for slick "produced" sound.
Country, Americana & Praise (Sets 462–467):
We’ve added new RealTracks across bro country, Americana, praise & worship, vintage country, and songwriter piano. Highlights include Brent Mason (electric guitar), Eddie Bayers (drums), Doug Jernigan (pedal steel), John Jarvis (piano), Glen Duncan (banjo, mandolin & fiddle), Mike Harrison (electric bass) and more—offering everything from modern sounds to heartfelt Americana styles
Check out all the 202 New RealTracks (in sets 456-467)
And, if you are looking for more, the 2025 49-PAK (for $49) includes an additional 20 RealTracks with exciting new sounds and genre-spanning styles. Enjoy RealTracks firsts like Chinese instruments (guzheng & dizi), the bandoneon in an authentic Argentine tango trio, and the classic “tic-tac” baritone guitar for vintage country.
You’ll also get slick ’80s metal guitar from Andy Wood, modern metal with guitarist Nico Santora, bass player Nick Schendzielos, and drummer Aaron Stechauner, more praise & worship, indie-folk, modern/bro country with Brent Mason, and “Songwriter Americana” with Johnny Hiland.
Plus, enjoy user-requested styles like Soul Jazz RealDrums, fast Celtic Strathspey guitar, and Chill Hop piano & drums!
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-For Pro customers, this includes 33 new RealTracks and 65+ new RealStyles.
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-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 20 new RealStyles.
- Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
- Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano
- Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7
- Playable RealTracks Set 4
- RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark
- SynthMaster Sounds and Styles (with audio demos)
- 128 GM MIDI Patch Audio Demos.
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyles,
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
- Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster
- Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8
- RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®!
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
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Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
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Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Windows!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
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