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HELP in Transposing #147797 01/22/12 06:35 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Aug 2009 Posts: 117 Weybridge, Surrey, UK Philsaxophone OP Apprentice
OP Philsaxophone Apprentice Joined: Aug 2009 Posts: 117 Weybridge, Surrey, UK	I use BinaB to create backing tracks for when I play my Bb Tenor sax I have loads of books written for Bb instruments so load in the cords shown in my Bb book and then to get BinaB to play the right backing I transpose the BinaB key sig 2 semitones D in my Bb book to C in BinaB Eb to Db ; ; ; ; Db to B I also sort out the relative minors if its written in a minor key This works fine and it plays great backing tracks ( I have UltraPlus Pak ) NOW!! my wife is learning the Alto in Eb What I want to be able to do is to get her to play the melody lines from my Bb books but transpose BinaB so it plays the right backing for her Alto I am obviously going senile as I cant seem to work this out Has anyone done this Tx Phil

Re: HELP in Transposing Philsaxophone #147798 01/22/12 06:50 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 19,933 Australia Noel96 Veteran
Noel96 Veteran Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 19,933 Australia	Phil, The basic principle to keep in mind is to ask yourself "What note is heard when the sax plays a middle C". For the tenor sax, what the player reads as a "C" sounds Bb. The musical distance from C to Bb is 2 semitones down. Therefore if one wants BIAB to match the tenor's pitch, it's got to be taken two semitones down. (As you've already stated.) For the alto sax, what the player reads as "C" sounds Eb. The musical distance from C to Eb is up 3 semitones. Therefore to match BIAB with an alto's pitch, it's necessary to raise the music in BIAB up 3 semitones. It doesn't matter that the music is written for a Bb sax because your wife will be seeing the written notes and playing them as written. So, if the music's written in D, BIAB will need to play F; notated in Bb, BIAB will need to play Db (or C#); notated in F, BIAB will need to play Ab; etc. Note: It's not straightforward if both tenor and alto want to play along together using a single book. The Bb sax would need to play the music 5 semitones higher to match the alto sax (or alto 5 semitones lower to match the tenor). Thus if the music is written in the key of C and the alto played as written, the tenor would need to transpose the music to the key of F. Since the Alto is the one playing as written, BIAB would need to be raised 3 semitones to be in the same key. Hope all this helps, Noel Last edited by Noel96; 01/22/12 07:07 AM. MY SONGS... Audiophile BIAB 2025 audios on Soundcloud

Re: HELP in Transposing Noel96 #147799 01/22/12 08:10 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Aug 2009 Posts: 117 Weybridge, Surrey, UK Philsaxophone OP Apprentice
OP Philsaxophone Apprentice Joined: Aug 2009 Posts: 117 Weybridge, Surrey, UK	Hi Noel Thanks for such a prompt reply At the risk of seeming even more stupid I will put what I think that means If my Bb book shows a song in D then to get BinaB to sound right I drop it 2 semitones to C as I do now, but if I want my wife to play the Alto using the same melody line then I raise the C back up 5 semitones which is the same is raising the D 3 semitones--this gives me the key of F If thats correct I can create a table of key transpositions to give her which will enable her to use BinaB when I am not there Is that right Tx A very humble Phil

Re: HELP in Transposing Philsaxophone #147800 01/22/12 08:39 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 604 Philly PhillyJazz Journeyman
PhillyJazz Journeyman Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 604 Philly	The best thing to do is keep ALL of your BIAB tunes in concert (the key in which they were written) and use the Notation options to display (or print) for a given instrument. So, for my Bb horns (Tenor and Soprano) I set the display up 2 or 14 depending on the range. For alto, and baritone up 9 or 21. Sometime you may need to go downward (manually) so for example, the alto could be -3 instead of + 9. Jan - 12 Core AMD Ryzen 9 3900X 32GB DDR4 Win 10 64-bit Samsung m.2 SSD Boot drive,other SSD internal and USB drives. MOTO 2 Ketron SD4,SD1000 Yamaha RX-v381amp VB-Audio virtual cables

Re: HELP in Transposing Philsaxophone #147801 01/22/12 03:25 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 19,933 Australia Noel96 Veteran
Noel96 Veteran Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 19,933 Australia	Hi Phil, Quote: If my Bb book shows a song in D then to get BinaB to sound right I drop it 2 semitones to C as I do now, but if I want my wife to play the Alto using the same melody line then I raise the C back up 5 semitones which is the same is raising the D 3 semitones--this gives me the key of F Yes. You've got it For BIAB to be in tune with you, the written music needs to be dropped 2 semitones. For BIAB to be in tune with your wife, the written music needs to be raised 3 semitones. The difference between the Alto and Tenor is 5 semitones. Therefore let's say you've got a song in your book that's written in D. You've already created a BIAB file for this and it's been transposed to the key of C so that it works for you. If your wife wants to use the same file, when she plays the music in the key of D as written, the sound will be the key of F (3 semitones up from the written music). Since the BIAB file is tuned to the tenor though (which was dropped 2 semitones), the file must be transposed (a) back up 2 semitones to get back to the key that's written in the book and then (b) up 3 semitones to compensate for the Eb pitch; a total of 5 semitones. All the best, Noel Last edited by Noel96; 01/22/12 04:52 PM. MY SONGS... Audiophile BIAB 2025 audios on Soundcloud

Re: HELP in Transposing Noel96 #147802 01/22/12 04:27 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jul 2001 Posts: 824 REDLAND BAY, Qld., AUSTRALIA Graham Martin Expert
Graham Martin Expert Joined: Jul 2001 Posts: 824 REDLAND BAY, Qld., AUSTRALIA	Gees, that seems like a complex way of going about things. Reading music accurately is difficult enough without trying to transpose at the same time. Why don't you put the melody line (or whatever) from the books into your Band-in-a-Box and then print her out a lead sheet in the correct key? All the settings exist in BB for you to be able to do this, irrespective of what is the key of the book from which you are copying. Band-in-a-Box has the quickest entry method of any of the music programs and it should only take you a maximum of ten minutes to enter the normal 32 bars of notation - often a lot quicker. Alternatively, buy her the Eb books, but the Band-in-a-Box way is a lot cheaper. Grah Jive Talk "Don't worry baby, they'll swing their arses off."

Re: HELP in Transposing Graham Martin #147803 01/22/12 05:05 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 19,933 Australia Noel96 Veteran
Noel96 Veteran Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 19,933 Australia	Quote: seems like a complex way of going about things Graham, I think the above sounds way more complicated than it really is. If I'm understanding Phil correctly, what he's wanting to do is to use an existing book of songs he's been playing from and that he has prepared and saved BIAB accompaniments for. He's now wanting to know how his wife can use the same songbook without transposing on sight and what he needs to do to the saved BIAB files for them to accompany his wife. The short answer is any saved BIAB accompaniment files that have been transposed to suit his tenor sax will need to be raised by 5 semitones (or lowered by 7 semitones) and they will then be in tune with the alto sax. This is only a couple of mouse clicks in BIAB. His wife will then be able to read the music as written and have a backing as well. Regards, Noel MY SONGS... Audiophile BIAB 2025 audios on Soundcloud

Re: HELP in Transposing Noel96 #147804 01/23/12 03:00 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Sep 2009 Posts: 175 Fife, Scotland F foxylady Apprentice
foxylady Apprentice F Joined: Sep 2009 Posts: 175 Fife, Scotland	I think some of the confusion arises because there are two different functions for transposition. 1. Change the pitch of a whole piece when it's played - to fit with a singer's range, or make use of open strings on a guitar, for example. 2. Change the representation of this piece on the page or screen - to accommodate transposing instruments such as trumpets, saxophones and guitars. Case 1 is dealt with in BIAB using the key signature button just below the song's title. If you change the key signature using this, you're given the option of transposing the song as well. When BIAB plays this song, it will have changed in pitch. Case 2 is dealt with through the "Opt." button in the Notation or Chord Window. Click on this, and you'll find you can Transpose the notes you see on a screen by a chosen number of semitones. If you're a trumpeter you'll want it up two semitones so that when you play the trumpet part it matches the backing in the original key, if you're a tenor saxophonist you'll want it up 14 semitones, and if you're a guitarist you'll want it up 12 semitones. The converse of this is that if you use "Opt." button to transpose up 2 semitones, and then key in the chords from a paper copy written for a trumpet in Bb, BIAB will play the song as if you'd entered the "Concert" version with no Transposition. In keeping with this, BIAB keeps the original key signature on the key signature button, even though the chords and music on the screen are in the key appropriate for the transposing instrument. So the ideal way to enter pieces from a book meant for a trumpet (in Bb) goes like this: 1. Set the key signature for the "concert" pitch version of the piece (a tone down from the Bb part). 2. Open up the Notation or Chord Sheet Window, and use the Opt. button to Transpose up a tone. 3. Enter the piece exactly as it appears in the Bb part. 4. Play the piece in BIAB, and play along with the Bb part on your trumpet. If you want to play the melody on your flute, use Opt.=>Transpose to set the transposition to 0, and if you want to play on your Alto Sax, set the transposition to -3. Of course, if Phil and his wife want to play together on the same piece, reading their parts from BIAB, we have a problem, as only one part can be displayed at a time. However, Phil already has a Bb part on paper, so BIAB can be set using Opt.=>Transpose at -3 for his wife's alto. They could also print out lead-sheets for an Eb instrument using this setting, and switch to an Opt.=>Transpose value of +2 for Phil to read from the screen.

Re: HELP in Transposing foxylady #147805 01/25/12 01:21 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Aug 2009 Posts: 117 Weybridge, Surrey, UK Philsaxophone OP Apprentice
OP Philsaxophone Apprentice Joined: Aug 2009 Posts: 117 Weybridge, Surrey, UK	Hi Guys Thanks for all your help Noel96 was correct in that what I wanted was a simple way to transpose the BinaB backing track I had made for my Bb melody lines to one that would work if my wife played the same melody line on her Alto. I have now made a simple excel chart for her so that she can do that when I'm not around Regarding actually writing the melody line in BinaB and then transposing so we could play together--I have to be honest and say thet I have found this a bit difficult with some songs I got to the stage of getting triplets notated properly but then struggled with things like ties between bars and some other stuff I might try it again as the other option is to buy the Eb version of all the dam books I have which I dont realy want to do Again, thanks to everyone for responding Regards Phil

Re: HELP in Transposing PhillyJazz #147806 01/25/12 03:28 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 1,259 CA Shastastan Expert
Shastastan Expert Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 1,259 CA	Quote: The best thing to do is keep ALL of your BIAB tunes in concert (the key in which they were written) and use the Notation options to display (or print) for a given instrument. So, for my Bb horns (Tenor and Soprano) I set the display up 2 or 14 depending on the range. For alto, and baritone up 9 or 21. Sometime you may need to go downward (manually) so for example, the alto could be -3 instead of + 9. I also have the BIAB backup in the concert key. To get my notation (assuming there's something on the melody or soloist tracks), I just do the key change in BIAB. Say the concert key is G. For a Bb instrument you would add 2 sharps. 3 sharps is the key of A so that's what I change the key to. I then print out the notation and undo the key change always saving in the concert key. For your situation, you can then change the key for the Eb horn by adding 3 sharps for a total of 4. 4 sharps is the key of E. Change from the concert key of G to E. Now print out the notation for the alto sax. Then undo the key change and save in G concert. All should now sound fine--providing your horns are in tune You can do any octave changes in Utilities from the Melody drop down menu. Stan Cornet Curmudgeon

Re: HELP in Transposing Shastastan #147807 01/29/12 02:47 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 207 South Africa M Mike Laatz Apprentice
Mike Laatz Apprentice M Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 207 South Africa	You could also try downloading music from www.wikifonia.org where you have the option to transpose the song before you download. Download a part for tenor and a part for alto, then you could play together. Regards Mike Laatz Cape Town

Re: HELP in Transposing Shastastan #147808 02/22/12 02:29 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Feb 2012 Posts: 1 Wisconsin H harpcapt Newbie
harpcapt Newbie H Joined: Feb 2012 Posts: 1 Wisconsin	Some songs I've downloaded will not transpose the lead sheet. What's happening there? Is something frozen in the arrangement?

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