PG Music Home Forums PG Music Product Forums Band-in-a-Box for Windows HELP in Transposing

I use BinaB to create backing tracks for when I play my Bb Tenor sax

I have loads of books written for Bb instruments so load in the cords shown in my Bb book and then to get BinaB to play the right backing I transpose the BinaB key sig 2 semitones

D in my Bb book to C in BinaB
Eb to Db
;
;
;
;
Db to B

I also sort out the relative minors if its written in a minor key

This works fine and it plays great backing tracks ( I have UltraPlus Pak )

NOW!! my wife is learning the Alto in Eb

What I want to be able to do is to get her to play the melody lines from my Bb books but transpose BinaB so it plays the right backing for her Alto

I am obviously going senile as I cant seem to work this out

Has anyone done this

Tx

Phil

Phil,

The basic principle to keep in mind is to ask yourself "What note is heard when the sax plays a middle C".

For the tenor sax, what the player reads as a "C" sounds Bb. The musical distance from C to Bb is 2 semitones down. Therefore if one wants BIAB to match the tenor's pitch, it's got to be taken two semitones down. (As you've already stated.)

For the alto sax, what the player reads as "C" sounds Eb. The musical distance from C to Eb is up 3 semitones. Therefore to match BIAB with an alto's pitch, it's necessary to raise the music in BIAB up 3 semitones.

It doesn't matter that the music is written for a Bb sax because your wife will be seeing the written notes and playing them as written.

So, if the music's written in D, BIAB will need to play F; notated in Bb, BIAB will need to play Db (or C#); notated in F, BIAB will need to play Ab; etc.

Note: It's not straightforward if both tenor and alto want to play along together using a single book. The Bb sax would need to play the music 5 semitones higher to match the alto sax (or alto 5 semitones lower to match the tenor). Thus if the music is written in the key of C and the alto played as written, the tenor would need to transpose the music to the key of F. Since the Alto is the one playing as written, BIAB would need to be raised 3 semitones to be in the same key.

Hope all this helps,
Noel

Hi Noel

Thanks for such a prompt reply

At the risk of seeming even more stupid I will put what I think that means

If my Bb book shows a song in D then to get BinaB to sound right I drop it 2 semitones to C as I do now, but if I want my wife to play the Alto using the same melody line then I raise the C back up 5 semitones which is the same is raising the D 3 semitones--this gives me the key of F

If thats correct I can create a table of key transpositions to give her which will enable her to use BinaB when I am not there

Is that right

Tx

A very humble Phil

The best thing to do is keep ALL of your BIAB tunes in concert (the key in which they were written) and use the Notation options to display (or print) for a given instrument. So, for my Bb horns (Tenor and Soprano) I set the display up 2 or 14 depending on the range. For alto, and baritone up 9 or 21. Sometime you may need to go downward (manually) so for example, the alto could be -3 instead of + 9.

Hi Phil,

Quote:

---

If my Bb book shows a song in D then to get BinaB to sound right I drop it 2 semitones to C as I do now, but if I want my wife to play the Alto using the same melody line then I raise the C back up 5 semitones which is the same is raising the D 3 semitones--this gives me the key of F

---

Yes. You've got it For BIAB to be in tune with you, the written music needs to be dropped 2 semitones. For BIAB to be in tune with your wife, the written music needs to be raised 3 semitones. The difference between the Alto and Tenor is 5 semitones.

Therefore let's say you've got a song in your book that's written in D. You've already created a BIAB file for this and it's been transposed to the key of C so that it works for you. If your wife wants to use the same file, when she plays the music in the key of D as written, the sound will be the key of F (3 semitones up from the written music). Since the BIAB file is tuned to the tenor though (which was dropped 2 semitones), the file must be transposed (a) back up 2 semitones to get back to the key that's written in the book and then (b) up 3 semitones to compensate for the Eb pitch; a total of 5 semitones.

All the best,
Noel

Gees, that seems like a complex way of going about things. Reading music accurately is difficult enough without trying to transpose at the same time. Why don't you put the melody line (or whatever) from the books into your Band-in-a-Box and then print her out a lead sheet in the correct key? All the settings exist in BB for you to be able to do this, irrespective of what is the key of the book from which you are copying. Band-in-a-Box has the quickest entry method of any of the music programs and it should only take you a maximum of ten minutes to enter the normal 32 bars of notation - often a lot quicker.

Alternatively, buy her the Eb books, but the Band-in-a-Box way is a lot cheaper.

I think some of the confusion arises because there are two different functions for transposition.

1. Change the pitch of a whole piece when it's played - to fit with a singer's range, or make use of open strings on a guitar, for example.

2. Change the representation of this piece on the page or screen - to accommodate transposing instruments such as trumpets, saxophones and guitars.

Case 1 is dealt with in BIAB using the key signature button just below the song's title. If you change the key signature using this, you're given the option of transposing the song as well. When BIAB plays this song, it will have changed in pitch.

Case 2 is dealt with through the "Opt." button in the Notation or Chord Window. Click on this, and you'll find you can Transpose the notes you see on a screen by a chosen number of semitones. If you're a trumpeter you'll want it up two semitones so that when you play the trumpet part it matches the backing in the original key, if you're a tenor saxophonist you'll want it up 14 semitones, and if you're a guitarist you'll want it up 12 semitones.

The converse of this is that if you use "Opt." button to transpose up 2 semitones, and then key in the chords from a paper copy written for a trumpet in Bb, BIAB will play the song as if you'd entered the "Concert" version with no Transposition.

In keeping with this, BIAB keeps the original key signature on the key signature button, even though the chords and music on the screen are in the key appropriate for the transposing instrument.

So the ideal way to enter pieces from a book meant for a trumpet (in Bb) goes like this:

1. Set the key signature for the "concert" pitch version of the piece (a tone down from the Bb part).
2. Open up the Notation or Chord Sheet Window, and use the Opt. button to Transpose up a tone.
3. Enter the piece exactly as it appears in the Bb part.
4. Play the piece in BIAB, and play along with the Bb part on your trumpet.

If you want to play the melody on your flute, use Opt.=>Transpose to set the transposition to 0, and if you want to play on your Alto Sax, set the transposition to -3.

Of course, if Phil and his wife want to play together on the same piece, reading their parts from BIAB, we have a problem, as only one part can be displayed at a time. However, Phil already has a Bb part on paper, so BIAB can be set using Opt.=>Transpose at -3 for his wife's alto. They could also print out lead-sheets for an Eb instrument using this setting, and switch to an Opt.=>Transpose value of +2 for Phil to read from the screen.

Hi Guys

Thanks for all your help

Noel96 was correct in that what I wanted was a simple way to transpose the BinaB backing track I had made for my Bb melody lines to one that would work if my wife played the same melody line on her Alto.

I have now made a simple excel chart for her so that she can do that when I'm not around

Regarding actually writing the melody line in BinaB and then transposing so we could play together--I have to be honest and say thet I have found this a bit difficult with some songs

I got to the stage of getting triplets notated properly but then struggled with things like ties between bars and some other stuff

I might try it again as the other option is to buy the Eb version of all the dam books I have which I dont realy want to do

Again, thanks to everyone for responding

Regards

Phil

You could also try downloading music from www.wikifonia.org where you have the option to transpose the song before you download. Download a part for tenor and a part for alto, then you could play together.

Regards

Some songs I've downloaded will not transpose the lead sheet. What's happening there? Is something frozen in the arrangement?