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Hi Folks,
Just wondering and looking for some advice on writing lyrics for a song as regards the phrasing etc?
Say we have a song with two verses and a chorus (repeated in middle and at end)
I try to have each line in the second verse the exact same number of syllables as the corresponding line in the previous verse and to have it note for note match. Sometimes it doesn't work out for me this way, you will still know it’s the same song but maybe a little difference in the number of syllables or a slight variation in the notes used.
Does this really matter as overall all the verses fit nicely together and you hear it’s all the one song throughout?
Thanks
Martin
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Marin,
You could post a snippet of the part you are wanting critiqued and people will help with you with the lyrics, feel etc. If you want, up to you. There are a great bunch of folks on this forum who have decades of writing/recording experience.
Good luck,
Trax
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My view has always been that there is no right or wrong when creating your own material - well, as long as it follows at least some musical sense and logic LOL! But Trax is right. A snippet might trigger some thoughts in the community  Cheers, Mike
Cheers, Mike My Music * Asus ROG Strix G15CF 32 GB DDR4 4TB HDD + 1 TB SSD NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 8GB Win 11 AKAI EIE PRO Sound Interface. BIAB/RB 2024 UltraPak Build - Latest
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Hi Martin.
Personally, I thinks it's good to have a bit of variation. If you're not careful, you can make the song sound too clinically perfect and if you make the second verse just slightly different it helps to maintain interest through the song.
If you want a good example of phrasing which doesn't match, listen to Bruce Springsteen. No one can argue about his success as a songwriter.
ROG.
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Thanks for replies. Probably why I am asking is because I feel there has to be a really coherent structure thoughout a song. For example when I used to look at popular songs sheet music the lyrics for maybe 2 or 3 verses were all written under the same music, to me anyways suggesting that each verse were very much alike, and little room for variation in note or number of syllables in each line of a verse.
Martin57
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Martin,
As already stated, there's no right or wrong way to write a song, especially when it's your own song.
If you feel better with a particular way, go for it.
I go by the "feel" of the lyrics and how they move within the song. But that's just me.
Good luck.
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Journeyman
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Totally agree.
Rules and structure are good, but the bottom line is how it feels and sounds to the person writing the song.
Some write the lyrics first and then come up with a melody to fit.
Others write the melody first then write words to that.
The method that works best for me is writing the lyrics and music at the same time.
Tim
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Martin,
As long as the melody still "works" then feel free to slightly alter the phrasing in each verse as required.
Some people are real sticklers for "melodic perfection" - I know Burt Bacharach insists that his lyricists always stick exactly to his melodies as written - but the vast majority of songs are not so precise. Even the Beatles sometimes varied the melodies in their verses slightly to fit an extra syllable or two in.
Personally I think that a little variation can make things more interesting.
--Paul--
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lots of "ALT" artists use various syllabic phrasing. U2, REM, Counting Crows, Dave Matthews, John Meyer, Iron and Wine, the Decemberists... the list goes on, and on.
Syllabic Variance sounds like a fancy theory
It creates more lyrical interest I think.
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Hi Martin, The closer you can get your lyrics to match the melody from verse to verse the better - that is good writing. A syllable or two added is fine when it doesn’t significantly change the melody. Lyrics that are very different from verse to verse is sloppy lazy writing. Great writers rewrite - that is the mantra of songwriting. Before accepting the line that doesn’t fit and changing the melody - try rewriting it a few times. A little tip - if you’re having a real problem matching or getting within a syllable or two of a line - try rewriting the original line. Being aware of what you’ve seen with other great songs’ sheet music is quite astute. I’m very impressed you brought this up.
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Hi Martin,
When writing lyrics, it's not just the syllables that align. The most important aspect is that the stressed syllables of speech align with the stressed notes of music. These stresses should also align from verse to verse.
Adding an extra unstressed syllable to an unstressed musical note here and there does not impact on sonic relationships between verses all that much. On the other hand, if stressed syllables do not match from verse to verse, or unstressed syllables in speech are put on stressed notes in the musical phrase, the impact on the verse-to-verse relationship is significant.
If you want to learn more about aligning notes and music, I suggest the book "Essential Guide To Lyric Form And Structure" by Pat Pattison. In my opinion, he's the best author around on lyric writing.
All the best,
Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2025
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Thanks very much for the very good advice everybody. Actually not sticking 100% to the points I made in my first post on thread will make things easier for me.
I do have a few songs that to my ears do sound ok, with slight variations in second verse (havent got around to getting them recorded yet) but will post when I do so.
Thanks again
martin
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I use pickup notes to help even out lines that are longer and word economy when ever possible.
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Best secret to writing lyrics is to write and edit often. Best book I own on song structure, lyrical form, melody, etc. is http://www.amazon.com/Shortcuts-Hit-Song...5445&sr=8-4Being creative takes practice.
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