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Quote:
Bob,
The problem went from technical to philosophical.You didn't miss much.
Sounds like I missed a lot! 
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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PowerTracks Pro Audio
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Sorry if I confused things!
I did a couple of posts that I subsequently deleted because in the meantime I had contacted PG Support and it seemed to make sense to let them have a look before making any further comments - not that I had much of use to say anyway - frustration was kicking in!
Anyway, they responded very quickly and set up a remote access session to my computer. Problem not yet solved, but ongoing and hopefully will be soon!
I do actually need low latency for some things I do, which is why I'm keen to pursue it. As I had said in one of the deleted posts, up until recently it has worked perfectly on my system, at least for the last three years.
I really do value all the help you have given me on here and if there turns out to be a straightforward answer that I understand, I'll let you know.
Many thanks again
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PowerTracks Pro Audio
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Well let me totally up front about ASIO.It has always been a real iffy thing using it with either RB or BIAB however I was one of the folks who's system, for one reason or another, seemed to work fine with ASIO. I never used it though as I don't need it and can't take the chance of faltering during performance.I use the same ASIO drivers with other programs to play soft synths using a keyboard and it's perfect. 2 mss latency. Not using RB or BIAB when I do this though. Strictly a standalone synth.
To the meat of things. I went to test some things for you and all I get in both programs is " error starting asio driver" so now I don't know. Not sure when this started as I said I haven't tried asio for some time with RB.
I use my internal card which is an old AC97 device that typically doesn't have asio drivers. I've been helping the developer of a native asio driver for these cards and keep in contact with him. I've explained this issue to him back in November so it was before 2012.He comment that RB & BIAB have some kinds of differences that do make asio iffy. At one point way back he made a change to his driver to accommodate these programs.
Now if you go back to WDM, pg still calls it MME, go into PREFS/AUDIO and set the audio output buffers way down. As low as is possible and try your effects while playing the tracks. You'll abandon ASIO as the WDM for this purpose are just as good.
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PowerTracks Pro Audio
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Hi John - thanks for your reply and I really appreciate your efforts to help.
I do have BIAB but rarely use it and I don't have RB so my problem here is really to do with recording, editing and mixing with PowerTracks.
One of the main reasons I need ASIO is because, as you'll know, it's impossible to overdub with instrument or vocals if what you hear in the headphones is lagging behind what you're actually playing. Likewise, when I'm editing or mixing, I need the playback to flow smoothly and be able to hear any changes immediately.
We've tried changing the ASIO drivers, buffer sizes etc., etc., but so far with no success.
Today I even tried uninstalling PT 2012 and going back to 2010 (which used to work fine) but the problem was still there.
Bizarrely, I also have Cubase LE4 that came free with my Alesis USB device. I don’t find it particularly easy to use which is why I favour PowerTracks, however I thought I’d try that and it’s working perfectly, even with the Alesis buffer setting back to where I used to have it – 256! At least I know I can use this if things get tight!
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PowerTracks Pro Audio
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RB PTs same thing. Did toy try changing the output buffers in PTs as I mentioned while using WDM. It's as close to asio as I can get.
BTW I'm doing a recording project for a band. I'm mixing and then mastering. They're tracking with Cubase LE4. I HATE IT!. Just thought I'd mention that.
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PowerTracks Pro Audio
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Agree with you re. Cubase but my PT remains impossible so I'm being forced to use it 
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PowerTracks Pro Audio
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Desperation setting in! - over two weeks and still no fix. Really don't want to abandon PT but having to go on a learning curve and work on my current assignment in Cubase
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I've been using ASIO continualy since you first brought this up. They are rock solid BUT if I move things around drastically fast as you said I get that same buzz & playback stops. I can have effects up like AT3 and change parameters etc. with no buzz. I suspect it's an issue with the horsepower of the computers. The only thing that makes mine buzz is moving screens around.
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PowerTracks Pro Audio
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Interesting that you also get the buzz. I get it when I open a window during playback as well as when moving them (not particularly quickly).
If that was the only problem I could probably live with it, but trying to record overdubs with either a stuttering ASIO playback or MME latency is making it impossible to work with.
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PowerTracks Pro Audio
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Quote:
The only thing that makes mine buzz is moving screens around.
It's different for me. When I get a buzz, that's when the screens start moving around on their own. Well, until the buzz wears off, anyway. 
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 12TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 12TB SATA BB2026/UMC204HD&404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/Notion/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com (under rehosting/construction)
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PowerTracks Pro Audio
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Quote:
Quote:
The only thing that makes mine buzz is moving screens around.
It's different for me. When I get a buzz, that's when the screens start moving around on their own. Well, until the buzz wears off, anyway.
John.
Who'd a thunk it but then again you are a musician! 
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PowerTracks Pro Audio
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This conversation goes on at every forum board on the net that deal with recording software. We always get someone who insists on chasing the ASIO trail.
ASIO is iffy on ALL PG products. I use it, but will admit i am using a very mature and solid interface. The mixer interface you are using has at times come up as being a little iffy in the driver area, in other conversations, here and on other boards. Also the CPU use in PT/RB is far greater with ASIO, than with WDM (MME). WDM is a good driver, and will give reasonable latency especially with basic tracking as you described. Make music, don't wrestle drivers, it is boring, and frustrating. PTPA has always worked better for me on MME drivers than ASIO. Also consider that the buzz, and faltering is caused by the fact that PT, RB, and BiaB were never built with a gapless or seemless audio engine like some of the biggies like Cubase, and Logic were, it is just a fact. Making big effect, and instrument changes will cause this.
People get way to hung up on ASIO, it is not always, and sometimes not at all needed. It is like a hammer and a air nailer, both drive nails, and in some situations the nailer is way faster, but in some situations it is not needed, or even advisable. Use the tool that works for the job.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB/RB 2026, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 11 , Presonus Audiobox USB96
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PowerTracks Pro Audio
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Robh,
I totally agree with what you said. I've never used ASIO however in the interest of trying to help those that want/need to I decided to start using ASIO exclusively.I've just completed my 12th tune using the 3rd party AC97 ASIO driver with my internal sound card on the Toshiba as mentioned below.It's actually been a treat because I've been putting guitar,bass and keys and it's nice to be able to have Real Time effects while playing. I record dry though.I only get buzz if I move stuff drastically. It has not hampered a thing. The key to success is as you state:
1. A reasonable computer
2. Rock solid ASIO drivers.
I have both.
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PowerTracks Pro Audio
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We've been running Power Tracks for the the last ten years and with ASIO drivers for much of that time. Even on the low-spec machines we've had no problems whatsoever and if you want to play soft synths in real time, you NEED ASIO.
There are so many possible variations and driver conflicts, you may need to experiment to find a system which is stable, but when you do you should keep it well away from the internet, or at the very least, disable automatic up-dates on the operating system. That way the machine is the same every time you switch it on.
For my money, the best operating system for music is still XP-PRO with SP2. OK, it's only 32 bit, but at least it works. I speak from experience - our machines run 12 hours a day, 7 days a week.
ROG.
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I use XP SP3 AND I run a different Hardware Profile for music work. I disable EVERYTHING that is not absolutely needed. Disable network card, so on & so on.
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I do see the sense in keeping away from the internet but it isn't a real possibility for me, although I do disabled it when working on a project.
A lot of what I do is in collaboration with others and we share files via Dropbox. Also, if I didn't have an internet connection, things like remote access by PG Support would not be possible. I think it might be risky disabling Windows security updates etc.
A standalone DAW would be nice but unfortunately not an option at the moment.
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PowerTracks Pro Audio
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Reread John's post; "AND I run a different Hardware Profile for music work"
He does use internet on the machine .. just not while working on music stuff.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Is that not the same as "I disable it when working on a project"?
Whatever the answer to that, the bottom line is that it is now 3 weeks since I updated to PT 2012 and since then I have not been able to use it in the same way as I have for the last few years with exactly the same system set-up as I have now. Even PG support have not been able to come up with a fix. I'm really disappointed because I found PT easy to use but now I'm forced into using a program I'm not so keen on but, unlike PT, it still works perfectly and the more I get into it the less likely it becomes that I'll use PT again.
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Use what works.
Roll back to PT12, and contact PGMusic for refund before 30 days is up!
We were just trying to help, but if you are getting things done in another program, by all means keep on getting the work done.
And no, it's not exactly the same. A different profile may never load some events, whereas disabling them afterwards just turns them off; they may still be loading, reserving resources, IRQ's, using registry entries, etc. Especially AV and such.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Thank you - yes, I really appreciate your help and hope I've not come across as otherwise.
As I said, I'm really disappointed the program that has met my needs so well for so long suddenly does not any more. In the last three weeks I've spent more time stretching my fairly non-technical brain in trying to get it working (as well as having to learn how to get the job done in Cubase) than I have working on my projects.
PT support have offered to have one more go with a remote access session, which I hope they will, but if that gets us nowhere then I'm resigned to the fact that I'll just have to use it for anything MME is OK for, but I'll have to do ASIO tracking and mixing down in Cubase.
I have thought about asking for a refund but it's not a great deal of money and I'm reluctant to admit defeat in the hope that one day it will come right.
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