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How do songwriters come up with the vocal harmonies? They are just the salt, the frosting, the ketchup. (maybe you can think of some non-food analogies)
But I just can't to seem to envision them.
I have my words and melody, verse-chorus structure, chord progression, ritards, crescendos etc, but I need to be able to think up some vocal harmonies, because when I listen to songs, I love them so much.
Is it a matter of getting background singers to improvise, or is there an accepted method, a typical way to devise them?
Are there any musicians out there who can give me some guidance on this?
Kerkenat
If ever a man had it all, it would have to be me, and ooh I love you
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How much theory do you know? That would be a great start, to learn chord structure, inversions, etc....
Now if you are asking how do they come up with lines that are counter to the melody, like with lyrics that are not what the melody singer did or singing along with the melody, that is going to come from your creativity alone.
You can also buy hardware known as a Vocoder that will sing the notes that you play into it while you sing. I use one of those. They are everywhere on the internet.
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Eddie, do you really mean a robot-voiced Vocoder? Or do you mean a harmonizer? Enquiring minds, etc.
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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Quote:
Eddie, do you really mean a robot-voiced Vocoder? Or do you mean a harmonizer? Enquiring minds, etc.
Eddie's talking about a modern vocoder. All of the good harmonizers have a vocoder mode. With a typical harmonizer yu get harmonies that are based on the chords and the sung melody however the computer in the thing determines the harmonies.In vocoder mode you play midi notes into it and it will sing those notes. In this way if you know how to arrange you can get the harmonizer to sing EXACT lines.
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BIAB can create different harmonies based on the melody. Why not generate some in BIAB based on your melody line and chord progression, and then sing those generated notes as your harmony.
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA BB2025/UMC404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com
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I have one called The Vocalist by Digitech. Very old school legacy type piece of equipment. There's really nothing specifically built for the "robot" sound I think you mean. I have 50 presets in mine. Male, female, 2 part, 3 part, different chord voicings.... It has a MIDI in and a MIC in. You plug in the mic, you plug in the MIDI, set the keyboard and device to the same MIDI channel, and yoru mouth becoems the trigger for the keys. You can press keys all you like but nothing will come out of the vocoder until you say something into the mic. You CAN make it sound like that, but I don't choose to use it that way.
The newer schools units just kind of follow along as you go. Similar in concept but newer technology.
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Quote:
BIAB can create different harmonies based on the melody. Why not generate some in BIAB based on your melody line and chord progression, and then sing those generated notes as your harmony.
I agree 110% with that statement.
To sort of answer your question, follow your melody and the notes in the current chord it is using will you give you your 3rd and 5ths etc. for the vocal harms.
Biab will allow you to generate a 1up / 1 dn with the TC Helicon in it. If you are going to use the TC Helicon, make sure your lead vocal track is mono format, clean (no reverb/chorus) and in tune PRIOR to generating the TC Harms with. You can send them (harms) to their own, mono tracks and then sing/record them and they will sound natural vs the robotic effect the TC comes up with.
Mixing them with the PG pre-set vocal effects will allow them to sit in the mix and sound fantastic, if done properly.
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I do my own harmonies. I do not use vocoder. I simply listen to the chords and what will sound good.
I learned this from listening to and finding the harmonies in Bee Gees songs. Plus, God blessed me with a very broad range )over 4 octaves).
Now I can just harmonize at will. I recorded The Rose with a five part harmony in the third verse, and I have been told by a record producer that if I had not been 9 years old when Bette Midler first recorded it, they would have probably used me.
But that vocoder will save me some time. Hmmmm....
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4 and 5 part harmony usually ends up sounding rather "barbershop" in nature, but not always.
Most Pop songs, you'll find one of three basic harmonies being used:
"One Up, One Down" -- Where the Melody note is in between the two harmony notes, either following the Triad dicatated by the chord at that time in the song, or perhaps generated by a certain Melody in a "Linear" harmony. This is the most commonly used vocal harmony.
"Two Up" -- Melody is on the bottom, with two harmony notes above it.
"Two Down" -- Just the opposite, Melody on top, two harmnoy notes below it.
--Mac
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Mac.... and then you have Walk Away Renee where the harmonies cross ALL over the place!! LOL!
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Quote:
How do songwriters come up with the vocal harmonies? They are just the salt, the frosting, the ketchup. (maybe you can think of some non-food analogies)
But I just can't to seem to envision them.
I have my words and melody, verse-chorus structure, chord progression, ritards, crescendos etc, but I need to be able to think up some vocal harmonies, because when I listen to songs, I love them so much.
Is it a matter of getting background singers to improvise, or is there an accepted method, a typical way to devise them?
Are there any musicians out there who can give me some guidance on this?
Kerkenat
I like your use of the term "ENVISION" regarding a sound phenomenon. But it works in the sense of conceptualizing something that is abstract.
When I have a hard time conceptualizing the abstract, I go to the nearest concrete example. BIAB's harmonist has already predefined just about every possible way to build a harmony. If you already have a melody, take some time to play and learn. Generate each of the harmony options with your melody, and take note of the results. After you get familiar with the possibilities, you'll begin to notice which types of harmonies are used in commercial songs
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there are 3 basic types of harmonies: (some may disagree, but I offer this as an example only)
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CHORDAL harmonies are based on the current chord, and the harmony note is generally any other note in the current chord besides the melody note. The variations in chordal harmonies come from placement of the harmony note in relation to the melody (above or below). The examples Mac gave are all options used in chordal harmonies. Chordal harmonies tend to be less active than other harmonies, because the harmony note doesn't have to change every time the melody note changes... it just has to be in the current chord.
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SCALIC harmonies are based on the song's key. Scalic harmonies tend to pick one or more notes in the scale and consistently add that note to the melody note.
Let's call the scale Do Re Mi Fa So La Ti Do. a "Thirds" harmony would work like this:
melody / harmony
-----------------
Do / Mi
Mi / So
La / Do
(1st) / (3rd)
a "fifths" harmony would work like this
melody / harmony
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Do / So
Mi / Ti
(1st) / (5th)
the actual notes used would depend on the key
This type of melody is very active because the harmony note changes every time the melody note changes.
------------------
I don't remember the third kind, but I bet others here will know.
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Very fitting subject today... RIP Robin Gibb
Follow That Dream Sam Karaoke King -------------------- Turning that corner again - I have to keep following that dream, no matter what
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There are a number of ways to think about harmonies. The most basic way is for them to essentially parallel the melody. That is, they have the same duration as the melody notes, and move in the same direction of the melody. The trick is to select notes that sound good with the melody. A couple of rules of thumb to keep in mind: - Notes of the chord sound good.
- Intervals of thirds and sixths sound good.
- Intervals of fifths and octaves sound good, too. But thirds and sixths in a row sound better. (More on that later).
- In two-part harmony, have both a "basic tone" (root or fifth of the chord) with a "guide tone" (third or seventh of the chord).
A "guide" tone differs from a "basic" tone in that it tells something about the quality of the chord (major/minor/dom7, etc.). Having both a "basic" and "guide" tone gives you a good harmony because even with only two notes, you still have the essential quality of the chordal harmony. A simple way to fulfill all the above is to select a chordal tone that lies above or below the melody note, and place it below the melody note. For example, if the melody note was a "C" and the chord was Am7 (A-C-E-G), you could select an "A" (since it's the pitch below the C in the Am7 chord) or an E (the pitch above the C in the chord). A caveat to the above rule: Don't use the 7th of a Maj7 chord, or you might end up with a minor second in the harmony, which is pretty dissonant. In general, you want to avoid intervals of a second in the harmony, except for brief passing dissonances. Every melody note doesn't have to be harmonized with a chords. Notes of short duration (less than a quarter note) or that don't fall on a strong beat (beats 2 or 4 are "weak" beats) create passing dissonances which don't have to be harmonized. Harmonizing every note gives a very "fussy" arrangement that sounds more like a church hymn than a pop song. Along those lines, try to keep a "common tone" when the harmony changes. For example, if you've got an "F" chord (F-A-C) and a Am7 chord (A-C-E-G), choosing the "A" or "C" note will work for both chords. So if you choose that as a harmony note, you can stay on it when the chord changes. Another way to think about harmony is as a counter melody to the melody. Some general rules of thumb for counter-melodies: - When the melody is busy, the counter melody should be simple (longer note durations than the melody) - and the other way around, too. This keeps each part clear.
- In general, the counter-melody should move in the opposite direction of the melody. This makes each part independent of the other. Obviously, they two will move in the same direction at times (usually in intervals of thirds and sixths). But the more they move in opposite motion, the more they will sound like counterpoint.
- If you use an interval of a fifth or an octave, avoid following it with another interval of a fifth or octave. This is called "parallel fifths" or "parallel octaves". These are both strong harmonic intervals, and using two of these intervals creates such a strong harmony that it destroys the feeling of an independent line.
A counter-melody with no dissonance (all thirds and sixths) tends to be pretty bland, so the introduction of some dissonant interval that resolves adds a welcome relief. The most common way for this to happen in via a suspension. This happens when one of the two notes changes, creating a dissonant interval. The note that didn't change then moves stepwise (typically downward) to resolve the dissonance. For example: E-C "E" on top - consonant interval of a third E-B "C" moves down to a "B", creating a dissonant interval of a fourth D-B "E" moves down to a "D", creating a consonant interval of a third It's called a "suspension" because the one voice changes, leaving the other "suspended" until is resolves downward. It's a very effective device, and you can have chains of suspensions. (But don't overdo it!) Like a lot of things in music, these are often best worked out backwards. As with almost everything else in music, simple is usually better. It's more effective to have less harmony, and put in contrast with monophonic sections. That's the theory, in a nutshell. Being able to sing it... that's a different matter. 
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