PG Music Home Forums General Discussion Off-Topic The words are paramount

ouch,

I thought they were so cool.

Back to the drawing board.

Thanks for the reality check and fog dissipation.

Skyoma

It kind of sounds like you ate a rhyming dictionary and a Dr Seuss book and puked out the combination of the two. If you are going for some kind of emotional gush you need to be a little less trite and not so syrupie sweet.

Remember, a song is a story set to music. Write lyrics like you talk in normal conversation. I can't imagine when you are talking to your pals you talk that way.

I am not a great lyricist by any means, but comments I get on Soundcloud and such often include "great story telling".

Remember, keep it as close to normal conversation as you can.

Whoa, Jump back Jack. Who spit in your bean curd?

Puked?!? Major low blow.

I said what I wanted to say to/about this woman (homo sapiens, not feline).

And I love the melody and accompaniment.

When we snuggle by the fire, it is just so warm and comfortable.

When she encounters slick people, she can be manipulated, because she tends to buy what people say at face value.

And she gets very emotional sometimes, soft hearted.

She is very clean, neat, meticulous. There are like 4 worn-out irons out in the garage.

And "daily grind" refers to the long work day, although I can see where some might take the phrase differently.

Regarding the non-Real Guitar, I really only use BIAB as a tool for 'constructing' my songs. I want real instrumentalists, ultimately.

I will consider all y'all have said, and try to tone it down a little.

Skyoma

Skyoma,

I suspect that your song is perfect for the lady who is the intended audience. Most song writers take great pains to write songs with universal appeal, because that's the way to sell lots of music. You went the other direction with this song, and made it so specific to one person that the average person won't understand all the inside references you make in the song (but the person to whom you wrote the song will, and that's the most important thing. )

Criticism is only valid in the context, and you are the only one of us who fully understands the context of this song.

You want us to tell you that you are the second coming of Bernie Taupin to stroke your ego, we will. You asked for critique, and you got it. If that song came on the radio, I would actively look for a tire store commercial rather than listen to it.

You are writing for the people who will be listening, not for the inspiring party. If that's what you want to say to her, make your demo, put the CD in a nice card and send it with flowers. (Which I have done. A song I wrote JUST for someone went to only her and nobody else has ever heard it. And won't.)

If you are going to swim in creative seas like music composition, you need to accept the turbulant waves as well as the smooth ones. People have been telling me I stink since the 60s!

What I think sucks means only that. There is an I in there.

I see nothing enduring in the lyrics.

I actually could have the remains of some meal on my shoes.

Cue the Godfather lyrics...then the machine guns...then the violin playing and those lyrics again. That's as sentimental as I'm getting here.

Other than that Eddie is my kind of guy, but he's holding back again.

Then again I'd like the author of the lyrics to pick up an instrument and play/sing this for 'us'.

I can change my opinion, if I have to.

Keep your mic near your lips.

Now cue the Hockey Song...
Hello out there, were on the air, it's hockey night tonight. Now them's lyrics!
(;

Hey Skyoma,

Took a look at your lyrics. Went over to the user show case to hear your song but it was deleted.
Well anyway, not a bad song. I don't think it has general appeal, but then it doesn't have to.
You specifically wrote it for the person you care for and in that context it works just fine.
As someone has already suggested, get a CD made and give it to her.
I bet she'll love it and you just might get a special treat that night. LOL.

I've written many songs specifically for my wife that I'd never post here or anywhere else, not because they're bad songs, but because they wouldn't mean much to anyone but my wife and to me when I get my reward. LOL.

Tim

Sorry, no. Go and stand in the corner with a conical hat on your head for half an hour. Then come back and listen to what I have to say.

Here's something brutally honest because it hurts me to see someone make a complete prat of themselves - I am first and foremost a lyricist and a singer songwriter who starts with the lyrics and then builds the music to suit or occasionally creates something out of thin air that is purely instrumental. I can't help it. Its natural for me. I don't know about you but it is for me. It has taken me years of hard work and research to craft my skill in this area and I have even given lectures on writing lyrics. Ok, my first name is Simon but my last is not Cowell! That stated clearly up front, I hope you will take what I have to say like a man.

I have to agree here with both Bob and Eddie, I'm afraid. The language is too Saxon - all those rhimey whimey winey blimey words. Words ending in that last damned consonant are always far too childish, immature and naive to my mind. Avoid them like the plague unless nothing else will fit. This song is to an adult? Are YOU an adult? Actually, I don't think it is written to a cat, too many clues that make it clear that the subject is at least human or that you think is a human. One positive thing is that it does remind me of a song I haven't heard in a looooong time - 'Oh Claire' by Gilbert O'Sullivan. But that is a very clever song with one hell of a twist at the end! This has no twist, no surprises and no purpose. No story here. I can imagine a child singing it to her cat but, as I have said, it is clearly to a human or something that is thought to be human. Maybe it is a five year old girl's song to her imaginary friend or her doll? I certainly hope you do not intend to try and make money out of this and if it is for one specific lady and you like it, you sing it. I can see absolutely why this singer in LA turned it down flat, with a clever suggestion that it is a children's song, it would do his street cred no good whatsoever for anybody to ever hear him sing that.

A song is not just a few simple words that rhyme (at least 99% of the time it is not). You also need to consider rhythm. I feel no rhythm here. How long did it take you to write? Did you just write it as you were starting this thread, with no prior thought at all? No. Obviously not because you state that you tried to get some LA session vocalist to consider it. That is the only way I believe (I certainly don't know) that you didn't just make it up on the spot and hit the <Submit> button.

Who cares if you don't have a good voice? Tons of 'singers' in the charts who can't sing for toffee (Tom Waits, Lou Reed, Nick Cave, Lee Marvin, Rex Harrison - the list goes on and that is just the pop market, I haven't even started on the blues singers) but your voice singing your song specifically for and to this lady (I have to assume it is a lady because I can't imagine any man liking to hear all that nonsense and most women I know would only humour me if I were to write with that kind of language - its archaic) would have far more impact. In fact, it might actually help the song a bit. Frankly, it is cringe-making enough as it is. Add a poor voice and you might at least encourage a bit of sympathy.

There is excellent advice in this thread. I particularly endorse the suggestion that you look at the works of the famous bards and poets - Shakespeare, Keats, Shelley, Milton et al. Then take a look at songs by prolific songwriters, Willie Nelson and Bob Dylan in particular (actually neither of them are very good singers either but their styles of music are perfect for their voices).

As to tools to help, I strongly recommend you get yourself a copy of MasterWriter (see www.masterwriter.com), the most useful tool for songwriters since the invention of the computer. I swear by it and it never lets me down. Read a few good books on songwriting, starting with the Dummies guide and moving on to a couple of others of your own choice. There are hundreds of them out there. Then, and only then, start with a fresh new page, take the key facts that are the most essential out of what you have already written and bung them in. Create a synopsis for yourself. Then build a story out of it. Decide what you want to say. Remember the 7 good men and true. Who are they? Why, What, Where and When, How and Which and Who. That's who.

That said, there are some nonsense songs out there with gibberish lyrics. Even the Beatles had some rediculous songs that were probably originally just made up on the spot to fill a temporary gap but then went on to become hits in their own right (Octopus's Garden, Penny Lane, Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds, etc).

If you cannot divorce the lyrics from the music, your inner voice is telling you the song can't stand alone. Bad. Trust yourself. You know that. A good melody can help a song to shine but a song must be able to stand on its own without any music at all for it to be any good. It is no accident that Dylan is considered a Beat poet. There are even whole bachelor's degree courses at university purely on the works of Dylan.

I did say I would be brutally honest. I do hope you take it in the spirit with which it was meant and not be offended. Good luck. It is a long and winding road but it is worth it in the end and the fact that you want to do it and are determined to do it is actually all the talent you need. I think you already have that. Get on with it and report back SOON!

You are always welcome to send me a PM and I will take a look at what you have written and give you constructive feedback, should you choose to accept the challenge.

Above all, have fun!

The main thing you need to take from this is DON'T QUIT!!! Keep trying. Keep writing. Think of different ways to express teh same thought.

Think about this Temptations song.

You've got a smile bright you knwo it could have been a candle
I'm holding you so tight you know you could have been a handle
The way you swept me off my feet you knwo could have been a broom
The way you smell so sweet you know you could have been some perfume

All rhyming, all borderline silly....

BUT

The hook brings it home.

The way you do the things you do.

That lyric is pretty much saying "You are the best ever and you don't have to do anything but be you and do what to do to BE the best ever."

Refer back to the better lyric writers. Smokey Robinson is a good place to start. He wrote half of the Motown era hits. Also visit Lennon and McCartney. Neil Sedaka, Carole King...

The old masters are known as masters for a reason.

One last thing, whether you like RealTracks or not, don't knock BIAB as an essential tool in your armoury as a songwriter. You will get people's backs up here. We have all spent a lot of time contributing to the development of this tool. As it says on the box, 'software for musicians built by musicians at prices musicians can afford'. There is a lot of mileage in that.

Unless you have more money than sense, which would appear to be the case because you insist on session vocalists, session musicians and a full 'professional' recording studio to record one single song for one person, BIAB and RealTracks can do all of that for you and more. Even if you do insist on throwing your money around, you could at least use it to save yourself a lot of unnecessary monetary waste by getting the song ready before you start throwing your money around. Then, and only then, take the finished work to a studio and get them to perform it for you. You will be able to give them:

the finished lyrics
the chord structure fully worked out
a demo of the finished song in completion
a demo of each instrument track soloed out
notation for each track
and maybe even a photograph of the lady for whom you want it performed

The last is not actually a joke. It often helps musicians to perform when they can visualise the intended recipient.

Once again, good luck

I would really like to hear some of your music, Sam. Where can I go to hear it?



Regards,


Bob

Nothing commercially available, Bob. I do have some instrumental stuff floating about on the net but that is not relevant here

Here's my soundcloud link: http://soundcloud.com/samhacker

My songs are copyright. That is why I don't post them publicly.

Yeah mine as well.

Tim

Generally I like to think of this forum as a place where people like to build others up and support them, not tear them down. I can be as "critical" as anyone here, but bringing "personal attacks" into it shouldn't be part of it. Now, I do realize I slammed bobcfp a little bit above (and I shouldn't have), but it seemed his comments were not really meant to help -- but who am I to judge other folk's motives on an internet forum.