PG Music Home Forums PG Music Product Forums Band-in-a-Box for Windows External Sound Module/Synth

I did a search but didn't come up with much. My question is if you're running BIAB from a lap top pc...with a sound card that obviously sucks...and aren't happy with the VCS or Forte software synths...what is the best external sound module/synth you guys are using other than the $400+ models sold by PG?

I'm looking to spend a couple hundred bucks...but I want it to sound REALLY good...if not GREAT.

THANKS!!!!

It would help if we knew what sounds you are looking for.

You may want to look into soundfonts. There are plenty out there and some sound great. HERE is a starting point. Be sure to check out the Links for Soundfonts.

THANKS for the great information Pat. I'm trying to set up BIAB on an older Dell laptop running on XP because there seem to be some issues running 2010 on Win 7. Correct?

I am going to upgrade to 2012.5 when it is issued. Will it be fully Win 7 compatible?


If so, maybe I'll just s...can the old Dell and buy a new laptop with a premium sound card and a much faster CPU and lots more RAM than my current 512K.

Probably wouldn't cost much more than the $400+ I'd have to pay for an external synth.

THANKS!

Jim

I like external synthesizers myself for a few reasons:

• Zero latency (for all practical purposes) most hardware modules have a latency of about 5ms, software synths can have much more latency (up to almost a half second for the worst of the lot)
  
• The similar latency in external synths allow for mixing synths. If the bass sounds best on one module and the guitar on another - no problem - use them both - with similar latencies the tracks will be in sync
  
• Hardware synths don't go obsolete. I'm still using the Roland MT-32 that I bought to use with my Atari/ST computer back in the 1980s. It works with all MAC CPUs/OSs and all versions of the PC from DOS to Win7 (and I'm sure Win8). I've added quite a few synth modules since the Atari days, but there are still a couple of great sounds on the old modules. Software synths can go obsolete when the OS is upgraded and have gone obsolete
  
• Hardware synths do not tax the computer's CPU which means there is less chance of crashing the computer on the gig
  
• Reliability - I've never had a hardware synth fail, the one I bought in the 1980s still works like it did when it was new (I did have a sampler fail once - but it had moving parts - a floppy disk drive (anybody remember floppy disks?)
  

Another option for you might be to record your backing tracks and play them as mp3 files on the gig. There are many ways of doing this, the way I do it is here http://www.nortonmusic.com/backing_tracks.html - you can take what you want and leave the rest.

Notes

You should be able to pick up a JV1010 for next to nothing. I have had one for 10 years and it still sounds great.

I agree with Bob Norton and much prefer a sound module for all the reasons he states.

Tony

Don't overlook MIDI keyboards, YAMAHA and even CASIO have some great sounding samples available for lower cash outlay due to mass production and popularity, plus you get the keyboard that can be used with BIAB as well.


--Mac

Roland Sound Canvas models are available on eBay, but seem to have held their value pretty well. They have some really nice sounds, and some models function as a mini-mixer. I still love my Ketron SD-4 for the best acoustic sounds.

Bob mentioned an Edirol SD90. I had the SD80, which had the exact same sounds, just not the audio interface. I loved mine, too, and only changed it for the Roland Fantom X because it had the same and more sounds, and expandability. So if you're looking for an SD90 and find an affordable SD80, it will work the same for playing MIDI.

Don't overlook the very trusty Roland jv1080. Very programable and very well regarded. You can get used for as little as 100.

THANKS guys for all the great feedback. But let's say for whatever reasons...good or bad...I elect to restrict my tracks to only the sampled RealTracks.

In that event it is my understanding that there is no midi output so whatever midi driver is selected is irrelevant and would be overridden by the VSC or Forte sofware synths I have installed....AND...therefore...do I assume correctly that playing through an external sound module would also be irrelevant? I.E. that the Real Tracks samples just go THRU the module and aren't enhanced or detracted from by doing so?

Sorry to be such a dunce on all this.

THANKS!

Jim

The RealTracks and RealDrums are audio only and have nothing to do with an external or internal sound module (Midi). The quality is limited by your computer sound card and whether you get the the Audiophile version of RealTracks. For most applications, the built-in sound card and regular RealTracks should be just fine. The exception is if you want to produce studio-quality tracks.

@Notes:

One of the very cool things about the Ketron SD4 is that you can hook it up to your computer and tweak the user banks. Because you can layer three sounds, you can have, for example, a bari, tenor and alto playing 1,5 and b7 that will work over minor or dominant 7th chords. Also 4ths is pretty cool. One of my favorites is brass in octaves with a dixieland trumpet on top that puts a shake after a few seconds of a sustained note. Sounds killer for a big band brass effect. Also, you can group your woodwinds, brass, strings etc. so your banks are all in categories. It's a little pricey @ around $700 or so, but great for live gigs where you can't necessarily schlep a computer with you.

You're trying to give me GAS aren't you? (Gear Acquisition Syndrome)

It's working

Notes ♫

Brand new 2012.5 updates from Norton Music:

• 2 new style disks for Band-in-a-Box
  
• 2 new free (with a purchase) fancy intro/ending disks for Real Band and other DAW's
  
• The Ultimate Gospel Fake Disk
• The Real Rock Fake Disk (plenty of classic rock in this one)
  
• The Beatles Fake Disk
  
• And an updated Christmas Fake Disk

Hundreds of Free .sgu and .mp3 demos for the above at: http://www.nortonmusic.com

I still have an OLD Yamaha FB-01 sound module and an OLD Roland MT-32 sound module. I don't even REMEMBER when I got those things but I can't get rid of them. Certain sounds just sound better than anything I have. A couple of the older school pianos in the Yamaha and 2 of the strings on the Roland. All these Ensoniq boards I have, and I still go back to the 80s for those old modules.

Here's another two-cents worth.

I use combinations of soft synths and external hardware synths. Each person will have their own preferences depending on needs, likes, budgets, etc.

As others have mentioned, hardware synths have the advantage of quality of sound, zero latency (practically zero latency, since all electronics has some latency, albeit usually imperceptible to the human ear), and no overhead on the computer except for the audio interface (which varies with type, manufacturer and drivers). That being said, not all hardware synths (sound generators or keyboard synths), perform as well compared to each other. That topic is like politics, and is sure to end up in heated debates.

But, here is my partial setup and abbreviated (arrived at over the years after auditioning, buying various units, software, etc.)

SOFTWARE

BBW/Realband and other PG apps (versions 2004 to present)

Cakewalk SONAR Studio Version 5 (numerous soft synths)

Cakewalk SONAR Producer Version X1 (numerous soft synths)

Earlier versions of Cubase, now retired

Earlier versions of Abelton Live, now retired


HARDWARE


Yamaha Motif keyboard Synth (Classic edition)

Yamaha Motif ES rack Synth

Roland Synth (early edition)

Kawai Synth (early edition)

Presonus Firepod 8 channel, Spdif In/Out, MIDI In/Out firewire audio interface (newer models available)

Edirol (now owned by Roland) 6 channel, Digital Audio In/Out (optical), MIDI In/Out firewire audio interface used in my portable rack

TC Helicon Quintent Vocal Processor

TC Helicon Voice Live 2 Vocal Processor

Roland GI-20 (synth guitar midi interface)



COMPUTER SETUPS (all have firewire 400 ports and use ASIO drivers)


Dual Core AMD, Windows XP Pro, more than sufficient to run SONAR 5 and BBW

Intel I7, Windows 7 Pro, lots of memory and multiple drives, SONAR X1 Producer


MY APPLICATION


I rely on BBW to build a foundation, then add/modify/remove elements for my taste. I export the resultant song to .wav files, then burn the CD, mp3s with a typical CD/converter program, such as Nero or Windows Media Player.

Several of the soft synths I use are quite good, and provide what I need in many instances. The Yamaha Motifs however, offer a realism for some instruments that the soft synths don't (like flute, sax, for example). I can trigger either motif (keyboard or rack) with my guitar as well (via the GI-20). The Motif also has a breath transducer that can be assigned to further articulate wind instrument voices (check out Eric Clapton's keyboard player on the 24 Nights Concert DVD-that's why I bought the breath transducer). A qualifier of sorts: As much as I use the Motifs, guitar being my primary instrument, I have yet to find a synth (hardware or software) that convinces me completely on guitars. The guitar (and similar instruments) is more difficult to simulate due to its very nature). I'm sure sax and flute players would feel the same way regarding their instruments as well, comparing them to the synth results.

My keyboards/controllers are velocity sensitive and have after touch (important to add realism to several voice types).

I record midi and audio from either my guitars or keyboards in SONAR. SONAR provides me with editing and other processing options not available in BBW or Realband). Here a few examples:

1. I copy all or part of one or more midi tracks, use the midi to trigger other instruments, note-by-note at will. I may also use a midi track to transpose/transform complete tracks, selected measures, or notes to change octaves or create harmony).

2. Invoke signal processing on portions of a track or on clips (such as envelope processing.

3. Send midi or audio out to an external synth or processor (such as the Motif or Voice Live 2) for additional processing and bring it back in on another channel (track) in SONAR.

There has been several negative comments regarding ASIO in this (and other forums). But I feel (and my experience has been) that with the proper hardware, drivers, and setup, ASIO still provides the best performance. Note however, without naming companies and models here, you will find some brands are problematic, both in hardware and drivers). And chip sets used on the hardware interface, whether it's a firewire or USB DO MAKE A DIFFERENCE. More recently, some of the firewire chip sets (and some USB chip sets) used by manufacturers do not work for audio purposes. Check out various user forums regarding hardware, chipsets and drivers (e.g., Cakewalk, Presonus). I recently had to go through this SAGA on my i7 platform. I found that the TI chip set works, while other brands don't. Windows 7 also has some oddities.

Bottom line, I use both extensively. And even with today's much faster computers, software typically still has more inherent latency than hardware. Buy as much hardware as you can afford that meets your needs (generally, better synths will cost more, but some less expensive ones perform well for several voices). Software is a little different. Price is not always indicative of quality/performance (BBW is an example where great software isn't very expensive, and is definitely unique in its core functions). Over the years, I have bought expensive software only to find out it doesn't measure up. At least many companies now offer some sort of free trial for their software.

Richard