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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2009
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OP
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Posts: 175 |
I've been doing some tidying up of my repertoire, and paying attention to minor problems I've left in the "good enough for jazz" pile in the past. What happens is that the first chord in a tag ending appears in a position about three lines below the bar it's meant for, and the second chord in the tag ending is about one-and-a-half lines below. After that, the chords appear in their normal places. Here's how it looks: 
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2000
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Whenever BIAB starts doing something that it is not supposed to do, the first thing I always try is the Return to Factory Settings under the Options menu.
Works 90% or more of the time. Give it a try.
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,616
Expert
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Expert
Joined: May 2007
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I've seen this problem periodically for years and if my memory serves me, it is tag-related. I often have to play around with bars per line and staves per page. Sometimes the start of the tag has to be moved. Play around with those and see if you can fix it. Another thing is to copy the chords and melody/soloist parts to a new file. There could be something corrupted with your song (but not likely).
R
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2009
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OP
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RTF didn't work for me this time, I'm afraid, Mac.
Rachael - I haven't tried copying-and-pasting complete melodist/soloist parts between files - is this a matter of running two instances of BIAB at the same time, or going through a sequence like:
Copy (from old), Close (old), Open (new), Paste (new), Close (new), Open (old), and so on?
I've tried changing the number of staves-per-page without success. Changes to the number of bars per line would be awkward for other players because of the 4-bars-per-line standard for jazz fakesheets.
I'll mess around a bit, and see if I can find:
a) a consistent way of creating the problem
b) a way of fixing it.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2007
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I export the parts to a midi file and import into the new file. There are probably other ways to do it though such as multiple instances etc.
In your example posted, see if you can get the tag to start on it's own line. I've had some success doing that. In adjust bars/line, remember you can do stuff like 4,4,4,8 where you have 3 lines of 4 bars followed by 8 bar lines.
I sent this issue to BIAB years ago and have yet to see it fixed. Why don't you send your file to support and see what happens. I'd love a fix for this also.
R
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2009
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OP
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I haven't managed to find out how to do "stuff like 4,4,4,8" - the number of bars per line in the leadsheet seems to accept only one value. I've tried various values for this, and get correct positioning of the chords if the end-repeat mark comes at the end of a line - in the case of this song I have to choose either 2 or 17, as the end-repeat is at bar 34. Other values bring out the fault - with chords attached to bars beyond 34 appearing at various points above and below the correct place (and some where they should be). Looking through my leadsheets, I've come across another example. In this case there is no tag, and the end-repeat mark comes at the end of bar 45. If I use a factor of 45 (3, 5, 9, 15) for bars/line, the chords in bars 46 onwards are correctly placed on the leadsheet, but any other number causes them to be displaced or missing altogether. It looks as though the common factor in the faulty files is that the end-repeat mark doesn't come at the end of a line in the leadsheet. I'll put together a bundle of files for support@pgmusic.com.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2007
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Quote:
I haven't managed to find out how to do "stuff like 4,4,4,8" - the number of bars per line in the leadsheet seems to accept only one value.
.
.
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It looks as though the common factor in the faulty files is that the end-repeat mark doesn't come at the end of a line in the leadsheet.
In the Lead sheet Options found by pressing Opt in the Lead Sheet Window (Alt W), there is a line for 'Fakesheet bars/line'. To get your last line in the score to go to the end of a line, you would specify an exact layout as desired. Since the default is 4, it is pretty easy to play with the last line. For example, a song with a 4 bar intro and 18 bar chorus could be specified as 4,4,4,4,6. If you want the score to go back to 4 bars/line after the chorus, type 4,4,4,4,6,4. This is how I've gotten around MOST of the songs that have the problem.
Keep us posted if you get any feedback. I think the answer I got was BIAB is not primarily a music score program.
R
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2009
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OP
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OK, I didn't realise I could specify a sequence like this.
My piece with 45 bars before the end-repeat mark gets the chords in the right place if I use...
4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,1,4
...but looks odd with its 45th bar spread out over a whole line.
I can accept that a fault in the production of printed scores might be regarded as a low priority for repair, but the same fault is also visible in the Lead Sheet Window itself, and this window is presumably intended for a player to play along with, as the note currently being played is high-lighted.
As an amateur programmer myself, I can't believe that this fault would be hard to resolve, as it's part of the arithmetic surrounding the folding of a piece with repeats in it.
I've just had a look at the changes in the Lead Sheet Window when I untick the "Fake Sheet Mode" box - the 45th bar comes out as a single bar across the whole page in this mode, with the beginning of the next chorus starting at the beginning of the next line, and so on with 11 lines of 4 bars followed by a single bar until the final bars - all with the chords in the correct place.
I'll report back on any progress - thanks for your help.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 175
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OP
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Support staff confirm fault reproducible (not just me, then!) and will investigate.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2003
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While waiting I'd take a marker to that score.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2009
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I can't believe you're suggesting that my request for a bug-fix doesn't get full priority from the PG Music Team!
I "Print" to PDF files from a BIAB arrangement, and send a copy of the BIAB file itself to colleagues with transposing instruments, so the marker pen isn't a total solution.
MusicReader allows me to annotate my own score after the PDF conversion, but that doesn't solve the problem for the others. They're all BIAB users themselves, so they're familiar with its quirky behaviour.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I'm with you Foxy. Sure it's true Biab is not primarily a notation program, the good ones cost as much as the full Ultrapack does. Still, if something is part of the program and it has bugs then at least those bugs should be addressed. My big thing with the tags is the coda symbol is useless. It always shows up as way too small and it's always buried next to or on top of a chord symbol. What I wind up doing is creating a completely different version of the song where the thing is one chorus but laid out exactly like it should look with the 1st/2nd endings and either a coda or tag but without any of that from the program if that makes sense. It's just the chords. Don't bother hitting play because it will play completely wrong. This is just for the look. Then I print it and take a sharpie and draw in the lines for the 1st/2nd endings, write the DS and coda symbols, the word tag and physically hand them out to people. The thing there is for the time it takes me to do all that I could take a blank manuscript and write the thing by hand. I've written charts my whole life, not that big a deal. It's just that yeah, this is part of the program so lets get it working right.
This doesn't help you since you want to email them. The only thing I could suggest there is scan them then email but that's crap too since you're supposed to be able to do the whole thing within Biab. If you wanted to be a bit snarky (me, snarky? nahh) you could ask the guys if Oliver Gannon uses printed Biab charts for his gigs. I kinda doubt it.
Let us know what you find out.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 392
Journeyman
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Journeyman
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As Jazzmammal points out, fully fledged notation programs can cost as much as an Ultrapak.
So, in fairness, we really can't expect a top line notation capability within BIAB for the money they charge for the basic program.
But I GET IT that issues like this are frustrating.
If I were PG, I would create a Premium Add On notation capability and charge for it...just like they charge for RealTracks...if users WANT enhanced sound. Ditto for enhanced notation and for the same reason....COST.
Just my 2 cents.
Best,
Jim
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I have a problem with a function which works some of the time.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 392
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I hear ya Rachael...and as I said, I can imagine how frustrating that is. My only point was that it appears to me that the issues you face are those that push the limits of a "rudimentary" notation capability and would be absent in a "higher end" notation program.
I really hope for your sake that there is a relatively easy fix.
Best,
Jim
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I've never dug deeply into how it works and after reading these threads for years I don't think anyone here really understands it fully. The types of answers I always see are the "try this" suggestions, not the definite "here's exactly what you do" that would come from someone who fully understands it. The pros here who use notation a lot all talk about Sibileus, Finale or other dedicated programs.
Sounds like another full weekend project for me, work with this until I know it inside and out and then see if there's really any bugs or not. It could be a real gem for all I know but because it's tricky and counterintuitive I've never taken the time to completely figure it out.
The problem is who has time for something like that when I might need it 2 or 3 times a year?
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 175
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I play in a number of different bands, and my ideal would be to be able to circulate and share the repertoire of each band as a set of BIAB files. Even better is to share them in Dropbox, or similar, so that all band members get corrections and additions as soon as they're made, without anyone having to remember to send a copy of a changed version to a reserve player. This way, everyone has the same source file, and can use it for practice as well as for the production of a leadsheet for his instrument - hard-copy or PDFs for MusicReader or unRealbook etc.
Clearly, there are situations when BIAB is not the ideal music engraver (e.g. nested repeats), but I don't think it should fail to put chord symbols in the right place above the bars they refer to.
When I need a more sophisticated engraver I use Lilypond, which is at the geeky end of the spectrum, but gives me a lot of flexibility. It also has the advantage (especially to a Scot) of being FREE!
What would be really handy for me, when I come up against a brick wall in getting BIAB to present a song as I want it, would be an export_to_lilypond feature, which exports chord names as well as notes. I did find a program out there which reads the raw data in a BIAB file and exports the result, but this doesn't work reliably. If PG Music were to reveal the structure of the BIAB file I might even have a go at writing such a program myself, but I don't suppose they'd want to do that for perfectly good commercial reasons, and also because they'd then be constrained to stay within the published format.
What would also be handy is a BIAB grammar-checker, which can check files for corruption BEFORE they cause trouble. It's not uncommon for BIAB problems to be ascribed to a corrupt file, but without a definitive tool for the job it's hard to be sure if that's really the cause.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Hi Foxylady, I totally agree with you about the chords. Seems to me that they certainly should line up appropriately. That they do not, sounds more like it might be a programming bug. Out of curiosity, under "Lead Sheet Options" and then the button "Notation Options", have you tried setting "New Line Each" to "none" to see what happens (with the "Fake Mode" option both activated and deactivated)? - Also, if you want a FREE music notation program that's pretty sophisticated AND reads in SGU/MGU files, have a look a MuseScore (available here). It's pretty good. It will open the BIAB files and add the BIAB chord symbols automatically.
All the best, Noel
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I've just downloaded and installed MuseScore, and loaded the file I was having trouble with.
Unfortunately, MuseScore fell at the first fence, with chords running at 4 beats to the bar with the melody running in 3/4 underneath, becoming ever more out-of-phase with the chords. There are also double-stops in the melody which aren't in the original.
I notice that the BIAB import feature is marked as "experimental", so I shouldn't be harsh in my criticism, but a MuseScore conversion is certainly not usable as a quick-fix for a faulty BIAB leadsheet.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Interesting. I hadn't tried MuseScore with a piece in 3/4 until after reading your post. It seems there is definitely a limitation with this time signature.
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2024
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