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There must be a massive "library" of song-specific arrangments produced by the "power useres" here on the forum and I am wondering how those super-talented people would feel about sharing their work with other forum members on request.
I know there is a User Showcase but that's not what I am referring to. I'm suggesting...what if someone posted a request for...say...Just in Time, or Scarborough Fair or Take Five or any other title*...would those who have high quality arrangements for those songs be willing to e-mail them upon request? (can BIAB arrangements be e-mailed or are they too big???)
I know there are LOTS of song-specific arrangements for free on line and from some great commercial producers and I don't mean to step on any toes.
But I know that a LOT of work has been put forth by the top people on this forum and I just wonder if they'd like to see their work get a wider audience.
Best,
Jim
*The requests would likely be for the more complex arrangements but not necessarily. The power users hear know a LOT more about "humanizing" EQs, etc. then the rest of us unwashed masses and the work of the power users would likely sound a LOT better than average even for the more simple arrangements.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
this web site does not have a place where files are traded, mostly to keep the possibility of copyright infringement to a minimum.
Right. That's why I suggested e-mailing the files not posting or linking to them. That takes PG entirely out of the equation AFAIK.
And there is also no guarantee (from PG's point of view) that the songs posted on the User Showcase are actually original.
Sequences of chord changes are essentially not subject to copyright protection and that is what I'm referring to...not songs with melodies.
I thought the major objections would be:
A. The files are too large to e-mail and/or
B. It would be a pain in the neck for forum members to respond to requests for their files.
THANKS for the links to BIAB files on the internet. I've found SOME that are pretty good but most are fairly lame...and massively cumbersome to find in terms of high quality specific songs.
Best,
Jim
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Quote:
Right. That's why I suggested e-mailing the files not posting or linking to them. That takes PG entirely out of the equation AFAIK.
oh, I see. I missed your point, sorry. You can certainly do that.
Quote:
And there is also no guarantee (from PG's point of view) that the songs posted on the User Showcase are actually original.
true... but that's where the group's self monitoring comes in. By making sure that the rules are adhered to, forum members have a better chance of keeping this great forum alive
Quote:
Sequences of chord changes are essentially not subject to copyright protection and that is what I'm referring to...not songs with melodies.
as I read farther down, I see that you haven't been happy with most of the songs you've DL from the web... which are all sequences of chords. Many of the ones I've found even contain the signature licks and melody(now they're not so legal) but I still don't like the way they sound.
So, to be honest, you are looking for songs that are as close to the original as possible, and you want to obtain them from people who have invested a lot of time tweaking them, all without implicating PGMusic.
When you spell it out, the legitimate options start getting smaller.
Quote:
I thought the major objections would be:
A. The files are too large to e-mail and/or
B. It would be a pain in the neck for forum members to respond to requests for their files.
"B" would probably be more of a problem than "A"
Quote:
THANKS for the links to BIAB files on the internet. I've found SOME that are pretty good but most are fairly lame...and massively cumbersome to find in terms of high quality specific songs.
yeah, I haven't been very satisfied with most of the downloaded files either. That's why using BIAB to make my own is so much fun!
My guess is that what you want is possible on a very small scale if you observe peoples comments to see who makes the kind of covers you'd like to use. Then ask for a personal email address so none of the correspondence goes through PGMusic's PM (that could be traceable in a legal audit)
Taking all the risk yourself by using your own email and your own initiative to contact people off-forum, you'd probably have a 50/50 chance of finding somebody who was willing to work with you. They would probably expect to receive an equal number of high quality files from you too, as fair trade.
But, if somebody contacted me by email to ask if I was willing to exchange copyright protected material, I'd probably be paranoid and not do it.
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Good for you Pat...about being unwilling to share copyrighted material. I've been in the publishing business for 15+ years and it bugs the #$%^ out of me that so many otherwise fairly honest people don't give a second thought about stealing bread off of song writer's tables (and actors...movie producers etc.)
I DL'd some pretty decent arrangements not realizing that the person included melodies "just so people can get the feel of the songs."
To be honest, I didn't delete the files but I DID mute the melodies on the theory that if I couldn't hear them...they must not be there!!! (-:
I guess my whole question was just another of my crazy ideas. I think I'm up to Crazy Idea #924.
I can imagine how fun it is to create your own high quality arrangements. My issue...so far...is that I just can't find the time to really "dig in" to BIAB to get nearly as good as I am sure lots of the folks here are.
So for songs I really want to drill down to, I guess I should just buy more of Notes Norton's stuff which I have found to be really outstanding.
(-:
Jim
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Quote:
Quote:
this web site does not have a place where files are traded, mostly to keep the possibility of copyright infringement to a minimum.
Right. That's why I suggested e-mailing the files not posting or linking to them. That takes PG entirely out of the equation AFAIK.
Best,
Jim
I don’t believe that this takes PG out of the equation. Napster and other P2P sites did not have the copyrighted files on their sites. They were just a means for pirates to communicate with thieves so they could steal music. But they were hauled into court, forced to stop and pay heavy fines if I remember correctly. I do not want that to happen here.
In case you didn’t get my drift I hate people that steal music!
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
this web site does not have a place where files are traded, mostly to keep the possibility of copyright infringement to a minimum.
Right. That's why I suggested e-mailing the files not posting or linking to them. That takes PG entirely out of the equation AFAIK.
Best,
Jim
I don’t believe that this takes PG out of the equation. Napster and other P2P sites did not have the copyrighted files on their sites. They were just a means for pirates to communicate with thieves so they could steal music. But they were hauled into court, forced to stop and pay heavy fines if I remember correctly. I do not want that to happen here.
In case you didn’t get my drift I hate people that steal music!
Hi Mario. Actually the former Napster network was entirely different than a process of two people agreeing to share files via e-mails that take place OUTSIDE the PG forum.
Napster was a Peer-to-Peer network (P2P)...the PRIMARY PURPOSE of which was to FACILITATE the sharing of copyrighted material.
That P2P network relied not only on the users all having the Napster utility installed but also...and this was the KEY to the lawsuit...a "central server" (owned an operated by Napster) that functioned as an "index" to the music that the users were willing to share.
Then, the person seeking the song clicked on a link to another user's computer and bingo...the file was transferred. BUT...that whole process relied on
A) The Napster utility which the courts ruled existed PRIMARILY for the purpose of facilitating the sharing of copyrighted material and
B)The Napster central server without which the index that pointed users to specific songs.
Sites like this one are now EXEMPT from claims of copyright infringement facilitation under the "safe harbor" provisions regarding "transitory network transmission" of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act
I get it that my idea was goofey....I have a LOT of those. (-: (and a FEW really good ones mixed in just to confound the You Can't Do That Gods! (-:
And yes, I did understand that you don't favor copyright infringement. GOOD FOR YOU!
Best,
Jim
Last edited by av84fun; 07/26/12 09:30 AM.
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<devil's advocate>
In my opinion what Jim is talking about isn't quite the same as what happened with napster. The P2P schemes typically involved trading the same files that you'd get on a purchased CD, which takes money away from the artist through lost sales.
Any of us who has ever downloaded BIAB files from most of the available sources (Yahoo groups, Alannah's site, etc) has gotten files of well-known songs containing the melody and somebodys best shot at duplicating the signature riffs. All Jim wants is the same thing. (He even specifically said he doesn't want the melody... only chords "in the style of" some song.)
If we call Jim a music thief for wanting to download BIAB files , that pretty much indicts everybody on the forum. Even though such files have been around for years nobody seems to get in trouble for uploading and downloading them AS AUTONOMOUS INDIVIDUALS. But if a business (PGMusic)sponsored the trading of the files, that's a different story, and that's why no such trading is promoted here
So, I'm trying to address the question Jim actually asked. He didn't ask "how can I steal music" and he has made it clear that's not his intent
He's really only asking how to get a better quality BIAB file (i.e. created by the experienced users here on the forum, not by Joe Blow on the web who posted the very first song he created with BIAB 1.0)
I think that's a legitimate question, especially given his stated condition of not implicating PG Music. I think the functional answer to the question is 4-fold:
1) it COULD be an infringement of copyright (depending on inclusion of melody or sig licks)
2) acting as an individual I doubt seriously that you'd be prosecuted
3) but you'd have to find people who are willing to give away stuff they've created from scratch and tweaked to perfection... or...
4) learn to roll your own (which is how the forum gurus became experts in the first place)
</devil's advocate>
Standard disclaimer:
the statements made by Devil's advocate are his own opinions, and are not endorsed by PGMusic or any of its employees, affiliates or pets.
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Quote:
<devil's advocate>
If we call Jim a music thief for wanting to download BIAB files , that pretty much indicts everybody on the forum.
Pat, I did not call Jim a music thief. I was referring to those who used P2P for stealing songs. Jim, if you took it that way I apologize for not making myself clear.
I was just reading an article that stated the music police are trying to go after ISPs that allow people to swap music, emails included. That would put PG at risk.
Personally I can’t see why it’s illegal for someone to do a copy then email it to a friend. No money is changing hands. But if a company like PG who sells software has a forum where people can do just that then that is a problem, according to the music police, as far as I know.
Principal: Your child always causes trouble in school.
Me: My child causes trouble at home, do I ever call you?
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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I was just reading an article that stated the music police are trying to go after ISPs that allow people to swap music, emails included. That would put PG at risk.
How? PG isn't an internet provider.....
And in the true sense of what an ISP does, they sell a service to people (the S in ISP). How they use it is pretty much up to the moral compass of the users to whom they provide internet (the P and I respectively - yes, I am a wise guy, but you knew that).
This has been in court time and again, has it not? I would have to research it but I thought that the internet nazi's lost this one when they went after someone for swapping music. As I understood it, you could swap music if you did not charge money for it or burn it to disc.
By the most literal definition of what the RIAA music police were after, if I write a song and publish it, I (as myself) become detached from that song in the sense that I am not the "artist", and not "me". So for me to send you a copy of MY OWN SONG is in violation (again, by the most literal definition) because the "artist", though that artist is "me", does not get royalties. THAT is how stupid the RIAA was.
I worked somewhere that butted heads with the RIAA. I can't talk much about it, only to say that I was just a little bit away from the middle of the head butting. They are, um, not very honest or respectable people.
Now, imp that I can be, let me toss this into the mix. PG is in Canada. Does US law apply to them? If you say yes, how do you explain the presence of file sharing servers in Europe and Russia and such?
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I misunderstood, Mario, Please accept my apology.
I agree with what you're saying
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PLEASE lets not get into yet another copyright "what's legal and why don't they do this or they should do that" or "so and so did it this way, blah blah". There's so many threads about that just do a forum search using the word copyright or copywrite and you'll be busy for days.
Jim if all you want are good arrangements with chords I can send you tons of those depending on what styles you want. I've got Real Book one, most of book two, a whole bunch of different stuff where I took a lame downloaded file and made it sound like something. A lot of them have Real Tracks but if you have the Ultrapak then if I send you a song it'll load up on your system and find the correct RT's.
Just to be clear I'm talking about chords only, Biab doesn't put in song specific licks anyway and anything that has a melody I can remove it.
When it comes to sending songs around the web a lot of folks will just change the name to fool all the bots. It's not April in Paris, it's August in Chicago. It's not I Feel Good, it's You Feel Bad. It's not Georgia, it's Peachy. Hey, I'm starting to roll now it's not....
And don't forget song titles by themselves are not copyrightable either.
Bob
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Eddie, from the way I read it if an ISP has someone that it is providing service for, say A.com, and A.com has a forum that allows copyrighted music to be swapped, even by email, then the music nazi’s would go after the ISP. The ISP would either have to pay penalties, be shut down or both if the ISP did not terminate A.com. I doubt this would ever happen but who would like to be the first trial case. I bet it would cost a fortune.
I agree with you about the RIAA. I had to stop supplying a site for 50s music because my lousy sounding midi songs, they had to use the MS midi sound set, contained lead lines. This was before DAWs and MP3s. So no matter how bad the music sounded if it contained a copyrighted melody it was a no no. Note that I was not charging any money, I was just trying to help someone get the site up and running.
Yep, I did forget that PG was in Canada. I have no idea how their laws apply to this situation. But as no copyrighted songs are allowed in the users forum then they maybe close to ours. Don’t know for sure.
If I can dig up that article I’ll point you to it.
Principal: Your child always causes trouble in school.
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I misunderstood, Mario, Please accept my apology.
I agree with what you're saying
No need to apologize my friend. Most of the time I know what I’m trying to say but sometimes I don’t type my thoughts out very well.
Principal: Your child always causes trouble in school.
Me: My child causes trouble at home, do I ever call you?
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Yep, I did forget that PG was in Canada. I have no idea how their laws apply to this situation. But as no copyrighted songs are allowed in the users forum then they maybe close to ours.
And again, is PG an "internet provider"? By the logic suggested, whoever provides that jack where PG plugs their connection in would be liable.
Quite a fascinating topic, actually.
When I was in the debate, I asked the RIAA rep "How then do you justify that authors of books have their books read and the enjoyment derived from those books by people who do not buy them? It is called "the library". How many people signed out "The STand", and Stephen King never got a dime out of all those people enjoying his book for free. How is it that you aren't trying to close down the libraries because they have CDs that people can sign out and, if they choose to, copy them?"
I also pointed out that they were bullies and only went after easy prey just to get their name in the paper and their message across. Their representative, I cannot reveal her name but it rhymes with "chosen", told me that she was not concerned with printed matter, only sound recordings, and would not comment. Cowardly response.
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Yes Eddie your “whoever provides the jack” statement is what I got out of that article.
Very good analogy about books and CDs and the libraries. That is a very good point!
On a side note my wife worked at a library that was getting rid of their albums and going all CDs. The librarian knew that I was a musician and allowed me first crack at the collection. I scored about 100 really good jazz/blues albums in mint condition. Plus she was giving them away. The rock ones were all scratched up.
So let’s end this friendly discussion with peace to all.
Principal: Your child always causes trouble in school.
Me: My child causes trouble at home, do I ever call you?
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Only if you rip those records for me... LOL!!!
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Mario...NO I didn't infer that you were accusing me of stealing copyrights!! NO worries.
PG is NOT an ISP...Internet Service Provider. PG doesn't provide ACCESS to the internet...it just has a domain on the internet as many of us do.
As for copying COPYRIGHTED material...even ONE copy and even to share with a friend...yes, under many (but not all) circumstances that would be illegal because making copies is one of the EXCLUSIVE RIGHTS of the authors which are protected under the Copyright Act. Sharing for free only makes the remedies less severe relative to copying with a commercial intent.
BUT...there IS an exemption for "educational purposes" (and other exemptions) that would make sharing as we are describing it not illegal.
BUT...BUT...as has been pointed out, my question entirely AVOIDED the whole subject of copyright violations because I was only talking about changes/arrangements.
Best,
Jim
(-:
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Quote:
[<...>Personally I can’t see why it’s illegal for someone to do a copy then email it to a friend. No money is changing hands.<...>
Money changing hands has absolutely nothing to do with it. If you sing "Happy Birthday" to your loved one in the privacy of your own USA home without paying a fee to Warner Chappell you are breaking the copyright laws and could technically be put in jail for 5 years and/or pay a quarter of a million dollar fine ($250,000.00) plus Warner Chappell's attorney fees. Not that anybody is going to do that - it would be bad publicity for Warner. (If a business does it the jail term and penalties can be doubled.)
Giving away a song with a melody or signature lick is against the law - period. It doesn't matter if money is changing hands or not.
So before sharing songs you must consider:
- The likelihood of being caught (the risk)- admittedly very small unless ASCAP, BMI or one of the others decide to make an example out of you
- The possible penalties if you are caught
- Your own moral ethics - do unto others as you would have them do to you?
- Your personal reputation with others
I don't agree with all the provisions of the copyright laws, -- but the corporate entities that spend millions of dollars on Super PACs want to get something back from their investment (tacit bribe), and so we are saddled with very strict laws and regulations that favor the corporation, not the constituent.
If I were benevolent dictator, things would be much different (no I'm not running for the job and will not accept it even if nominated). If I were benevolent dictator, the greedy robber barons who are now running this country would probably assassinate me.
And I am not about to tell you what you should or should not do, except, please don't share my style files as I don't make that much money and live paycheck to paycheck like everybody else.
Funny thing about to me is this: - If I were to invent something that would cure cancer, I'd get 17 years of patent protection before it fell in the public domain.
- If I write a simply one-chord song with a 6 word lyric, I am guaranteed protection for the rest of my life and my heirs (or Warner Chappell if they bought it from my heirs) would get 75 years of protection after I die.
To me this says that a one-chord song is more important under the law than a cure for cancer.
How about you?
Notes
Brand new 2012.5 updates from Norton Music:
- 2 new style disks for Band-in-a-Box
- 2 new free (with a purchase) fancy intro/ending disks for Real Band and other DAW's
- The Ultimate Gospel Fake Disk
- The Real Rock Fake Disk (plenty of classic rock in this one)
- The Beatles Fake Disk
- And an updated Christmas Fake Disk
Hundreds of Free .sgu and .mp3 demos for the above at: http://www.nortonmusic.com
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_service_providerLike above, "Devils Advocate".... PG Music is a company, this company has a set of websites. These websites reside on a Web HOST provider. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_hosting_servicePlain english ISP Comcast Internet Service provider, SkyBlue Internet service Provider Digitalpath.net Internet service provider. A "Router" or "Re-Router". My understanding is they are a point where you gain access to any websites on the net. My hierarchy description. 1. Internet Service Provider. 2. Website Hosting Provider ( I have many sites on Lunarpages.com) unlimited GB of use. 3. PG Music's home page http://www.pgmusic.com/index.html which resides on a number 2 above. 4. Pages within number 3 above. In some cases, these may be stand alone sites. 5. Content resides on number 2 above or clouds(below), songs, video's pictures, etc. Going back to number one, if they have a mail service storage, then songs, and other protected materials could be stored on their system. Now throw in Cloud computing. Mass Storage centers all over the world. I purchased 111 50's & 60's mp3's thru Amazon for about $6.00. Got two things with that purchase, cloud storage, and also downloadable mp3's. The amazon cloud still has copies of all of my music purchases. I can play on any device real-time from the cloud, or download and then play. How bout them apples.
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There's an amazing collection of new content too, including 202 RealTracks, new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two RealDrums Stems sets, XPro Styles PAK 10, Xtra Styles PAK 21, and much more!
Upgrade your Band-in-a-Box for Windows to save up to 50% on most Band-in-a-Box® 2026 upgrade packages!
Plus, when you order your Band-in-a-Box® 2026 upgrade during our special, you'll receive a Free Bonus PAK of exciting new add-ons.
If you need any help deciding which package is the best option for you, just let us know. We are here to help!
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® Special Offers Extended Until January 15, 2026!
Good news! You still have time to upgrade to the latest version of Band-in-a-Box® for Windows® and save. Our Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® special now runs through January 15, 2025!
We've packed Band-in-a-Box® 2026 with major new features, enhancements, and an incredible lineup of new content! The program now sports a sleek, modern GUI redesign across the entire interface, including updated toolbars, refreshed windows, smoother workflows, a new dark mode option, and more. The brand-new side toolbar provides quicker access to key windows, while the new Multi-View feature lets you arrange multiple windows as layered panels without overlap, creating a flexible, clutter-free workspace. We have an amazing new “AI-Notes” feature. This transcribes polyphonic audio into MIDI so you can view it in notation or play it back as MIDI. You can process an entire track (all pitched instruments and drums) or focus on individual parts like drums, bass, guitars/piano, or vocals. There's an amazing collection of new content too, including 202 RealTracks, new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two RealDrums Stems sets, XPro Styles PAK 10, Xtra Styles PAK 21, and much more!
There are over 100 new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®.
When you order purchase Band-in-a-Box® 2026 before 11:59 PM PST on January 15th, you'll also receive a Free Bonus PAK packed with exciting new add-ons.
Upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® today! Check out the Band-in-a-Box® packages page for all the purchase options available.
Happy New Year!
Thank you for being part of the Band-in-a-Box® community.
Wishing you and yours a very happy 2026—Happy New Year from all of us at PG Music!
Season's Greetings!
Wishing everyone a happy, healthy holiday season—thanks for being part of our community!
The office will be closed for Christmas Day, but we will be back on Boxing Day (Dec 26th) at 6:00am PST.
Team PG
Band-in-a-Box 2026 Video: The Newly Designed Piano Roll Window
In this video, we explore the updated Piano Roll, complete with a modernized look and exciting new features. You’ll see new filtering options that make it easy to focus on specific note groups, smoother and more intuitive note entry and editing, and enhanced options for zooming, looping, and more.
Watch the video.
You can see all the 2026 videos on our forum!
Band-in-a-Box 2026 Video: AI Stems & Notes - split polyphonic audio into instruments and transcribe
This video demonstrates how to use the new AI-Notes feature together with the AI-Stems splitter, allowing you to select an audio file and have it separated into individual stems while transcribing each one to its own MIDI track. AI-Notes converts polyphonic audio—either full mixes or individual instruments—into MIDI that you can view in notation or play back instantly.
Watch the video.
You can see all the 2026 videos on our forum!
Bonus PAK and 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®
With your version 2026 for Windows Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons for FREE! Or upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2026 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 27 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 25 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 12 new RealStyles.
- MIDI Styles Set 92: Look Ma! More MIDI 15: Latin Jazz
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 46: Piano & Organ
- Instrumental Studies Set 24: Groovin' Blues Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 19: Songs with Vocals 9
- Playable RealTracks Set 5
- RealDrums Stems Set 9: Cool Brushes
- SynthMaster Sounds Set 1 (with audio demos)
- Android Band-in-a-Box® App (included)
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyle.
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- MIDI Styles Set 93: Look Ma! More MIDI 16: SynthMaster
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 47: More SynthMaster
- Instrumental Studies 25 - Soul Jazz Guitar Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 20: Songs with Vocals 10
- RealDrums Stems Set 10: Groovin' Sticks
- SynthMaster Sounds & Styles Set 2 (sounds & styles with audio demos)
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®!
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