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Joined: Feb 2008
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Here's a little mixing tip I stumbled upon recently that may be useful to some of you. I'm posting it here because it's not really a PGM software tip, more a general music tip.
I had a couple of bass tracks, and more recently a vocal track, that I had recorded to mix with some BiaB backing tracks. In each case the track sounded basically Ok but somehow not quite what I wanted. I tried all kinds of things such as FX and compression and nothing seemed to work.
By accident I pulled an entire bass track ahead by 5 or 6 milli seconds. Since I didn't think you can hear a difference that small I failed to hit 'undo' and when I played the mix I was astonished. Without any other change that small advance in the track made a world of difference. The mix just sparkled, for want of a better term.
So I started trying this on all tracks before wasting time with FX etc. It worked particularly well on a vocal track I recorded.
Now such a short time shift doesn't mean I was behind the beat, at least not audibly, since even 10ms doesn't cause problems with latency for a keyboard. So why does it make such a difference? I don't know. Do any of you guys and gals?
BiaB 2013 b366, RB 2013 b4, WinXP Pro SP3, Toshiba M70, 1.8GHz 2GB RAM 100GB HD. Focusrite Saffire 6 USB, Ketron SD2. BiaB Wiki
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"Live" musicians often push the beat, or lay back from it and what you're doing is using the computer to produce the same effect. We've often used this technique and find it works best on vocals and instrument solos, when it lends a sense of urgency to the playing or singing.
Another thing you can try is moving the snare drum whilst leaving the rest of the kit as it was. Time slipping either way will produce quite a pronounced effect on the feel of the music.
ROG.
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Joined: Feb 2008
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Quote:
"Live" musicians often push the beat, or lay back from it and what you're doing is using the computer to produce the same effect.
Well 5 or 6 ms seemed too small to qualify as playing ahead of the beat. After all, that's a tenth of a beat in a 120bpm tune. When I'm playing my bass ahead of the beat it seems more noticible, maybe 30 to 50 ms although I'm guessing here.
I suppose you are right though. Maybe that's all the 'push' it needs to liven up a mix. Still, I thought it was worth mentioning so others might try it.
BiaB 2013 b366, RB 2013 b4, WinXP Pro SP3, Toshiba M70, 1.8GHz 2GB RAM 100GB HD. Focusrite Saffire 6 USB, Ketron SD2. BiaB Wiki
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Joined: May 2000
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Most DAW programs move the Audio in MIDI TICKS.
You can websearch and easily find the conversion to milliseconds stuff.
Don't neglect to include your MIDI resolution in the calculation.
--Mac
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Joined: Jan 2002
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Quote:
Most DAW programs move the Audio in MIDI TICKS.
You can websearch and easily find the conversion to milliseconds stuff.
Don't neglect to include your MIDI resolution in the calculation.
--Mac
Mac, my experience has been the opposite with the non-PG DAW software that I've used. I won't say it's most because my exposure has been somewhat limited to a few other programs (Tracktion, Reaper, Audacity). However, with those programs, I find a mix of either time format hh:mm:ss:ms, or video frame divisions. PG is the only provider that I've used which has a midi-centric approach to audio time slicing/moving/etc.
That said, one thing that I've appreciated with Tracktion is that with MIDI you can actually create a groove-based quantization template; and it comes pre-loaded with loads of very useful templates, so that you can push/pull individual notes in a measure or all of them or pretty much whatever you like by various amounts. It can make a wooden drum-beat pattern come to life in the right context.
Since you can also beat-detect in audio and re-slice the audio, you can even begin to do this with recorded loops. I haven't dove into that deep end of things yet.
-Scott
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Using the highest resolution setting will help a lot with accurate placement. But as mentioned, the math into milliseconds is much differnt than 'ticks'. PGMusic products use ticks (resolution setting) to move chunks of data in my observations. Interesting how the tempo affects the millisecond to ticks formula though. Slow song, low resolution makes the edits 'quantize' (for lack of better term) more than higher resolution with quicker tempo.. by far.
Somebody check my math;
120 beats per minute = 2 beats per second
3840 ticks (resolution) per beat for two beats = 7680 ticks (divisions) per second
How many milliseconds are in a second? 1000 right? (vs 7680 divisions per second using MIDI)
PGMusic MIDI tick method can be way more accurate than any hh:mm:ss:ms or video frame rate clock.
At least if my math is right..
But it depends a LOT on not using the 120 resolution setting (ticks/divisions per beat),
instead using a much higher setting. Most systems show no noticable loss in performance by doing so. Just more accuracy. It's a no brainer. Just gotta get used to using bigger numbers.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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If there is a MIDI engine included with the DAW software, there is a real good chance that the MIDI TICKS are indeed underlying, whether identified as such to the user or not.
Because MIDI Time Code drives the engine.
--Mac
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I hope my post above turns on a lightbulb for a user (or two) about resolution settings. It's been mentioned multiple times by experienced users but not often acknowledged. Much overlooked if you want more accuracy in both recording audio/MIDI and editing it.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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