PG Music Home Forums General Discussion Off-Topic You’ve gotta wonder just how hard it is to make it in the music business after watching this video.

Yeah, Hugh Lauri of House is another one. His character has a grand in his living room and he plays it fairly often. Solid player. Around here it seems like everybody's a player. A very good player.

And Scott, I'm not saying having the ability to control your own destiny using the internet isn't cool. All I'm saying is this new stuff doesn't make it any easier to make it in the biz. The odds are much worse now than they were 30 years ago imho, and we all know how easy it was then. Once you've created a large following then these websites like Kickstarter are great. I'm not discounting that but getting over that first hump is just as hard as it's ever been if not worse.

Tyler is very good, starting in a large church is a time honored traditional way to break into the music biz. Look at all the motown folks who grew up playing gospel in the church. Churches have been hotbeds of networking for centuries. I'm not a churchgoer and I've been told my whole life I should do that but I have too much respect for those folks and to go in there under false pretenses just to network doesn't sit well with me even though people have been using churches for that purpose for a very long time.

Bob

To clarify a couple points: our church was not 'large'. We averaged 250-300 over 2 services.

Regarding 'making it' it is actually just different, not better or worse than 30 years ago. You don't have to have a big following to successfully use kickstarter. Most don't. Most projects are very small. You match your projects to your size with some stretch. Your highlighted text has it all wrong. Getting over the first hump is different, and I would say it's way more accessible than in the past. What has changed is venue based versus home based. Venue based is harder, home based is way easier. Want to get 1000 CDs pressed but don't have the $2000 to get it done decent at Discmakers? Well, if you really NEED 1000 CDs, you should have a mailing list going already and should be able to get 150 or so folks to pledge you $15 and you end up giving them a CD after it's done at Discmakers. That's the kind of projects that are mostly done at Kickstarters. Sell the other 850 CDs for 10$ and you have $850 to go towards your next project. That's how most people are using these type of sites. (there are a few others, but Kickstarter is the one I have supported folks on.)

Tyler didn't 'start' in our church to make it in the music biz. He didn't use our church, as far as I can tell. His outside of church following in the local area was well along the way before our church as he played in a local band. In fact, our church really had not contributed at all to the firestorm success - it was never even discussed publicly. He only led worship a couple of times. Most of the time he was a supporting guitarist.

Anyways, I think we disagree. I just happen to know many folks that are successful using kickstarter and the like to do a reasonable amount of income without having to involve or worry about record companies or agents or the like. They are in control of their own destinies and sharing their art. I consider that 'making it'.

Hey Scott, just thought I would come back to post this link:

http://www.artsjournal.com/slippeddisc/2012/09/the-kickstart-singer-who-wont-pay-her-musicians.html

This is our friend Amanda Palmer the Kickstarter millionaire we talked about above. Now she wants musicians to play for free. There's a big discussion about this over on the Keyboard Corner forum.

This reminds me of an old story when I was in a show band at the Holiday Inn Waikiki in the 70's. Don Ho was the big deal then and he moved from his long time gig at the Outrigger to the new Hilton with about a 3 time increase in salary. The Iliki family who had backed him up for over 20 years asked for a small raise and he refused so they quit. It took Mr. Ho like hours to replace all of them for the same money. Lots of loyalty there.

Bob

Yeah she seems like a real class act. (dripping with sarcasm emoticon needed here)

regarding Amanda Palmer:
I just got back from reading all the threads about her decision not to pay her band. I could even ALMOST buy her reasoning if only she hadn't been a militant OCCUPY supporter.
If the same logic she applies to herself were applied to the 1% she despises, she would have to say that it's up to the individual to make their own choices about how they earn their living. Then she would have to acknowledge that she is disingenuous on one front or the other.

regarding Lisa Angelle:
If she were in my band, I probably wouldn't kick her out

Just sayin'

I can't help but wonder how her supporters who all contributed to the "One F******g Million" dollars feel after giving her all that money, then seeing her flash her boobs with a gloating body paint message and then hearing that she expects her musicians to play for free! Hmmmmm.....

I vote for the capitalist approach. Record a CD, pay your musicians, offer it for sale and hope that people buy it.

Don't beg for money, gloat that people gave it and then screw over the musicians who make it possible.

As Scott said, ... she's a real class act!

Pat,

It’s interesting that you mentioned that she is an OCCUPY protester who hates the 1%.

I wonder how she would react if a major record company approached her and said “We can make you PART of that 1%!, …?”

There’s no doubt in my mind that she would jump on that bandwagon and become what is known as a hypocrite, … and then immediately start shunning the OCCUPY protesters outside the arena where she was performing! LOL.

I briefly looked her up and man, what a fox. She grew up in the business, her father is/was a producer, it sounds like the whole family is well connected, she's written a lot of stuff that's been produced and it just shows how hard it is to make it even with everything she has going for her. Trust me though, somebody like that has no problem marrying very well, I'm sure she's fine even if she's not an individual star.

Bob

Amanda is definitely a strange contradiction walking. I have loved the work of her husband for years, but I don't like her stuff -- or her way of promoting herself -- much at all.

I find no contradiction in her being an Occupy supporter... but I've got a huge problem with someone at her level trying to get musicians to work for free for her.

Shrug.

I regret making the reference to the kickstarter millionaire.

Here are examples of projects that I've actually helped fund with donations:

1. Pikes Peak Guy's coffee table book - I pledged and paid $75 to help this guy get his coffee table book published. His initial attempt failed. With a little social media help, he reached his goal. Now he is on I believe his 3rd printing and selling through local bookstores, Amazon, etc. http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/thepikespeakguy/365-days-of-pikes-peak-the-journey-0?ref=live note that if you search 'Pikes peak guy' on kickstarter, you'll see his failed first attempt.

2. Amy Winkles' album. They are in mastering right now. I forget what I pledged - I think it was $25. http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/amywinkles/amy-winkles-new-album-in-2012?ref=live

In both cases, these very different artists, one a photographer, one a firebrand rock/worship singer/leader, had financial goals in their artistic endeavors that were out of their personal reach financially - but were needed to get to the 'next level' of getting their art into the public's hands. They had a quite small, but established fan-base (of which I am a fan of both) that were willing to forward them a fairly small bit of cash, for a valuable product in return - should enough people join the pledge.

I have a great, signed, sleeved hardcopy of the Pikes Peak Guy's 365 days of Pikes Peak proudly on display on my coffee table - and it's glorious. It retails for $99 on Amazon for an unsleeved version. More importantly, it is sold at all of the major gift shops in Colorado Springs - the most appropriate place for them to be printed. It is a very high quality book - that was one of the artist's requirements - he went into some detail about how he selected the printer and his criteria for selection. He involved us backers in his process - which is worth some of the backing fee, IMO.

I will be getting a signed copy of Amy's CD. If it's anything as good as hearing her live, my money will be well spent. Amy's vocals remind me of the best of Pat Benatar and Melissa Etheridge combined into one. I wish there was a popular female rock singer right now, but there isn't. So, I bought into Amy's project knowing that at least the folks involved in her project will likely do right by her voice. On stage energy; hard to capture in a CD; but I was willing to take the risk that they'll get some of it done.

Perhaps more valuable to me in both of these endeavors is that I played a small part in allowing these two artists to pursue their dreams. Paying it forward, shall we say. I know one thing that the coffee table project allowed was to allow the artist to 'stair-step' their investment, for wider exposure, with very little out of pocket expenses except in the original creation of the photographs.

I think they are 'making it', using their own terms, and at their own pace - without any outside influence of publishers or corporations. This is what I mean when the world is a better place for this now, than it was even 20 years ago.

-Scott

That is very nice Scott and I really respect you for your efforts. I'm not poo pooing these things at all, just making some observations. Obviously there's some very cool things happening with social media to get these artists off the ground. I think it's great.

Part of my cynicism is I live in LA. Here everybody's dog has social media up the ***. One time years ago the band leader brought in a sax player named Andy Suzuki. An absolute monster who tours with David Benoit. He took our little gig to warm up for a Hollywood Bowl gig in 3 days. After the gig he asked me for my contact info. I was kind of flattered but also puzzled. I know where I rank and I'm pretty decent but my god, he plays with Benoit and other top players in LA, he doesn't need me. Well, guess what I'm now on his emailing list for his upcoming gigs and album releases. It's been about 5-6 years.

There's a very good singer I know who sends out emails and tweets to about 100 people when he has a gig and he's told me he's lucky if 3 show up. People are just flooded with this stuff and I've posted about how tough it is here, I've got so many stories I could write my own book. It seems to work out in Colorado though.

Anyway, it's really great to hear your success stories unlike my tales of woe from the LA chapter of Heartbreak Anonymous.

Bob

@jazzmammal - they don't call it LA-LA-land for nothing, do they?

wow. what a thread!

going back to the original intent of the OP:

she has a fantastic voice and yes, she is sexy. but the song, IMO, was not great. the hook "Kiss This" was 11 measures after the chorus started (and was the last part of the chorus). you can't expect listeners to hold interest that long. for country/pop whatever genre top 40 you HAVE to get the hook in the listener's mind and making them wait to the end of the chorus won't do that for most people.

I loved the beat of the song, really great premise, too. but it's not "memorable."

I disagree with the video being too sexy for 2000. the video itself is not nearly as "sexy" as many others I've seen long before 2000. It actually wasn't bad at all.

If she had been gyrating on the bed with a guy (or another girl!) or salsa dancing or if she were even dressed seductively I'd say differently - but the most skin you see of her is the midriff and even that's tasteful.

to me, what turns me off about this video is the song itself. it's boring IMO.

Keep in mind I nevr said the song or video was too sexy. of course the were more provocative videos in 2000. I said she was TRYING TOO HARD to be a country skank. Rooling around in the mud with a blow up alligator, snakes around neck, photo shoots, lingerie on the bed. it all seemed disingenuous.

My reaction to the video was, "Oh, pleeese"

The song, it was just plain boring. moo

The video was FAR too long IMHO. I was bored by about 90 seconds. Yes, nice voice and set of lungs but so what. As to the video, just about anybody could hype themselves up to that extent. If its TRUE, then why didn't her 'Daddy' put her into the right management?