|
Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 10
Newbie
|
OP
Newbie
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 10 |
I've been looking to purchase a low cost, good quality orchestral sampler. The two I've been considering is Garritan Personal Orchestra and IK Multimedia's Miroslav Philarmonik. Ik Multimedia is actually having a sale for the Total Workstation XL Bundle, which includes the Miroslav Philarmonik, for $199. Anybody familiar with both the Garritan PO and IK's Philarmonik?
Which has better sound?
Which is easier to use?
Do both makers offer tech support?
Thank you
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 886
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 886 |
Tho I rarely use orchestral sample's, and thu can not help you with your question, I would just like to point out the Sonatina Symphonic Orchestra a free .sfz format library that sounds fine to me. You can also grab a .sf2 version from HERE. I hope this helps some.....
i5 3.20GHz, 32gb RAM, 1tb SSD OS, 12tb HDD, 4gb gForce vid card, 32" monitor, Audient id44, Win10 x64, BiaB/RB 2023, Reaper 6,IK Multimedia Total Studio 3.5 MAX, Waves 10
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,309
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,309 |
I've got them both, and prefer GPO 4. The main reason isn't sound, but convenience. Miroslav loads a lot slower on my machine. I also really like the sound of the woodwinds in GPO - in particular the flute and oboe.
GPO also uses keyswitches to toggle articulations, so you can load an instrument on a single MIDI channel, and get different articulations by pressing MIDI keys. Miroslav requires loading the different articulations onto different MIDI channels, which is much less convenient.
I also found the GPO sounds more "playable" from the keyboard.
As a result, I really haven't spent a lot of time going through Miroslav. But every time I do, it seems I end up coming back to GPO instead.
-- David Cuny My virtual singer development blogVocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?BiaB 2025 | Windows 11 | Reaper | Way too many VSTis.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,309
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,309 |
I don't want to give the impression that Miroslav doesn't have some great sounds in it. Here's something I put together using the Miroslav solo violin: Miroslav Solo Violin TestIt took a lot of work to get it to that point, but I think it's a nice example of what Miroslav is capable of. But it's also tailored to show off particular sounds of that instrument. Looking through the Miroslav library, I can find a lot of sounds that are particularly good. The solo bassoon/short is expressive with a pleasant woody sound. The solo english horn is pleasant, but the vibrato trails off sooner than I'd like. The solo oboe expr 1 has an emotional sound. The cello section is lush lush, and the second viola section has a marvelous vibrato. The solo flugelhorn has some iffy notes, but it's really nice. And the list goes on. I'm also m not entirely thrilled by all the sounds in GPO, either. In particular, the brass seems weak to me. But if I had to pick a single library, I'd go with GPO. It's got some very nice sounds, and I think it's got the most bang for the buck.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 10
Newbie
|
|
OP
Newbie
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 10 |
Thank you very much. I will look into it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 10
Newbie
|
|
OP
Newbie
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 10 |
What is the difference between .sfz and .sf2 files? Also, can you use these in RealBand and/or ProTools? Does it come with its own player or can you import these into PT's Xpand, or other player?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 10
Newbie
|
|
OP
Newbie
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 10 |
First, thank you for your reply and sorry it took me a bit to write back. I listened to the Miroslav violin solo that you produced and the sound is very nice. Not being very good on the keyboard, I am somewhat limited as far as playing a piece. However, I am a composer, have a very creative mind, and want to go beyond my current boundaries. In addition to sound quality, which, from your writing, it seems that Miroslav could be quite as good as GPO, I am looking for ease of use, and if needed, being able to speak to someone from tech support who are as readily available to answer questions as BIAB people.
Also, I'd be using this in RealBand and/or Pro Tools, which I forgot to mention on my first note, and as such, are both GPO and Miroslav compatible with both DAWs?
To summarize:
Looking into GPO vs IK Miroslav, which:
1 - is more 'user friendly' (putting aside speed and convenience)
2 - offers good tech support
3 - is compatible with both RealBand and PT?
On the side, I know that Groove 3 has tutorial videos on SampleTank, which would be the player through which you load Miroslav's sounds. Are there tutorial videos on GPO?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,309
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,309 |
The .sf and .sf2 refer to SoundFont files, developed by Creative Labs. .sf2 is the second version of the format. They're basically a format for holding sampled instruments. They contain sampled sounds, and instruments composed of those samples. The instruments can specifies how samples are mapped to keys - samples can be assigned to ranges of keys, and also be triggered by velocity. There is additional information for the instrument as well - panning, low frequency oscillators, and so on. One SoundFont file can contain one or more instruments, which can be made up of one or more samples. An .sfz is similar in function, but consists of a set of files. The instrument file is a plain text file consisting of a description of what samples are mapped to the instrument's keyboard. Where .sfz primarily differs from .sf is that the samples are not embedded in the instrument's description, stand-alone files. So if an .sfz instrument has 12 samples associated with it, you'll also have 12 separate .wav or .ogg file as well. The SoundFont file format was pretty popular for a while, since Creative Labs used it to as the primary format for their SoundBlaster cards. There are a number of free players available for each format. How well they implement the formats. I use the free sfz player to play SoundFonts from my DAW (Reaper). I had trouble running it with multiple instances - it would start crackling and dropping voices. I'm now running the multi-core build version, which runs fine. By default, it runs in "low quality" mode, so be sure to set Quality setting higher. The violin demo was put together by initially auto-generating the melody in BiaB, and then importing the MIDI track into my DAW. It's got a "piano roll" display, which is something that I initially abhorred, but for editing MIDI data turns out to be more convenient than standard notation. I added the all the runs, slides, and adjustments there. I had loaded a bunch of different articulations on different MIDI channels, and changed the articulations as I felt appropriate. For example, the short runs alternated between the legato patch on channel 1 and the staccato patch on channel 2. I'd put in a bunch of slides via the mod wheel, adding the curves in manually. I replaced a number of those when I found one of the violin samples had a nice slur. In total, I probably futzed around with that part for over 12 hours. But it was all done via mouse - no MIDI keyboard was used at any point. If I've got a single melody line to enter, I'll use BiaB. If I've got something more complicated, I'll use Noteflight. The "free" version of Noteflight only allows a limited number of scores, but it works fine for me. Once I've mocked it up in Noteflight, I'll export it and load it into my DAW. If I'm particularly lazy, I'll export it as MusicXML and import it into Finale's free NotePad notation program, and export the results as a MIDI file with Enable Human Playback set. It does a nice job interpreting the dynamics - especially things like trills, which can be tedious to enter by hand. Here's a quick video review of GPO4. I'm not sure what you consider "user friendly", so I'm not sure how to answer that question. I've had to deal with MakeMusic (which purchased Garritan) the other week. There was an updated, but when I logged on to the site, I couldn't find it under the "updates" list. When I tried to contact tech support, it required that I enter the product I had... but Garritan wasn't on the list. They got back to me within a day explaining where the file was (by then I'd found it) and promised to fix the issues with their site. I've not dealt with IK for support. The only issue with using GPO4 in RealBand is that GPO uses the mod wheel to control volume. RealBand and BiaB treat the mod wheel as a LFO modulator, and by default set the controller to 0, which silences the instrument. To get around it, you need to insert a mod wheel event at the start of the track to turn the mod wheel back up. I just loaded a Philharmonik flute as a melody instrument, and it works just fine. Did that answer your questions?
-- David Cuny My virtual singer development blogVocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?BiaB 2025 | Windows 11 | Reaper | Way too many VSTis.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 10
Newbie
|
|
OP
Newbie
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 10 |
I have the free version of IK SampleTank, which allows you to import samples. I believe Sample Tank can convert some sample formats. If I download these sample files and try importing them into SampleTank, is it better to try the .sf2 files rather than the .sfz?
Anyway, I'm getting into a totally new area here. I've worked for the past few years only with BIAB, and with some limitations. I now have PT and love its editing capabilities. I'm slowly building my knowledge base in all areas of music production, and I appreciate very much the information you provided.
What I mean by these sound players being 'user friendly' is that some of these have words, or abbrev. that at present, I don't know what they mean (macros, envelopes,etc), and without a user manual, or video to teach you, I'm clueless as to what they are there for.
If the free samples don't work for me, I am considering looking into IK Philarmonic. It has twice as many samples, and there is a lot of learing material available.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,309
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,309 |
Quote:
If I download these sample files and try importing them into SampleTank, is it better to try the .sf2 files rather than the .sfz?
I doubt it'll make any real difference.
Quote:
What I mean by these sound players being 'user friendly' is that some of these have words, or abbrev. that at present, I don't know what they mean (macros, envelopes,etc), and without a user manual, or video to teach you, I'm clueless as to what they are there for.
When you're dealing with samples of orchestral instruments, most of the sound comes from the samples, and little from the programming. With IK Philharmonic, I think you'll find that you can hear the loop points more easily - you'll generally want to work with the unlooped samples. (They're labeled as such).
I think IK Philharmonic has more knobs you can fiddle with, but they're pretty self-explanatory. Neither library requires you to tweak the sounds themselves in order to get good results.
-- David Cuny My virtual singer development blogVocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?BiaB 2025 | Windows 11 | Reaper | Way too many VSTis.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 10
Newbie
|
|
OP
Newbie
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 10 |
Thank you again for the information. I'll try importing these free samples and take it from there.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Last Chance! The Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac® Special Ends Today (May 31, 2026) at 11:59pm PDT!
Time really is running out! Save up to 50% on Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac® upgrades and receive a FREE Bonus PAK—only when you order by 11:59 PM PDT today!
We've added many major new features and new content in a redesigned Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
Version 2026 introduces a modernized GUI redesign across the program, with updated toolbars, refreshed windows, smoother workflows, and a new Dark Mode option. There’s also a new side toolbar for quicker access to commonly used windows, and the new Multi-View feature lets you arrange multiple windows as layered panels without overlap, making it easier to customize your workspace.
Another exciting new addition is the amazing new AI-Notes feature, which can transcribe polyphonic audio into MIDI. View the results in notation or play them back as MIDI, and choose whether to transcribe an entire track or transcribe specific parts like drums, bass, guitars/piano, or vocals. There's over 100 new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®.
There's an amazing collection of new content too, including 202 RealTracks, new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two RealDrums Stems sets, and much more!
Upgrade your Band-in-a-Box for Mac® to save up to 50% on most Band-in-a-Box® 2026 upgrade packages!
Plus, when you order your Band-in-a-Box® 2026 Mac upgrade during our special, you'll receive a Free Bonus PAK of exciting new add-ons.
If you need any help deciding which package is the best option for you, just let us know. We are here to help!
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 Mac Special Offers Extended Until May 31st!
Good news- we've extended our Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac® special offers until May 31, 2026!
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 is packed with major new features, enhancements, and an incredible lineup of new content! The program now sports a sleek, modern GUI redesign across the entire interface, including updated toolbars, refreshed windows, smoother workflows, a new dark mode option, and more. The brand-new side toolbar provides quicker access to key windows, while the new Multi-View feature lets you arrange multiple windows as layered panels without overlap, creating a flexible, clutter-free workspace. We have an amazing new “AI-Notes” feature. This transcribes polyphonic audio into MIDI so you can view it in notation or play it back as MIDI. You can transcribe an entire track (all pitched instruments and drums) or focus on individual parts like drums, bass, guitars/piano, or vocals. There's an amazing collection of new content too, including 202 RealTracks, new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two RealDrums Stems sets, and much more!
There are over 100 new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®.
When you order purchase Band-in-a-Box® 2026 before 11:59 PM PDT on May 31st, you'll also receive a Free Bonus PAK packed with exciting new add-ons.
Check out the Band-in-a-Box® for Mac packages page to find the best package for you.
Holiday Weekend Hours
It's Victoria Day Long Weekend in Canada. Our Customer Service hours are:
Saturday, May 16: Closed
Sunday, May 17: Closed
Monday, May 18: 8:00am - 4:00pm
Regular hours resume Tuesday, May 19th!
Today's the Last Day of the Band-in-a-Box 2026® for Mac Special!
Order before 11:59pm PDT today (May 15, 2026) to save up to 50% off your Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac® upgrade and receive a FREE Bonus PAK loaded with great new Add-ons to use with this new version!
Don't wait - order today!
Check out all the new features in the redesigned Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac - Special Offers End at 11:59pm PDT on Friday, May 15th, 2026!
Order before 11:59pm PDT on Friday, May 15th and SAVE up to 50% on most Band-in-a-Box® version 2026 for Mac Upgrade packages... and that's not all! With your version 2026 for Mac purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks... that's 222 NEW RealTracks available with version Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac!
Upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac® today for as little as $49! Check out the Band-in-a-Box® packages page for all available purchase options.
Learn more about the Free Bonus PAK and 49-PAK here.
If you have any questions about which package is the best option for you, just let us know. We're here to help!
202 New RealTracks Released with Band-in-a-Box 2026!
With Band-in-a-Box® 2026, we've released 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 468-488) in a variety of genres—featuring your most requested styles!
Jazz, Funk & World (Sets 468-475):
Our new jazz, funk & blues RealTracks include a groovin’ collection of RealTracks and RealDrums! These include more requested “soul jazz” RealTracks featuring artists Neil Swainson (bass), Charles Treadway (organ), Brent Mason (guitar), and Wes Little (drums). There are new “smooth jazz” styles (4), which include a RealTracks first: muted trumpet, as well as slick new smooth jazz brushes options for drums. Blues lovers will be thrilled—there are more “classic acoustic blues” styles, including guitar (5), bass (4), and drums (10) with blues master Colin Linden, featuring understated and tasty background acoustic soloing, plus brushes drums and acoustic bass. There are also new electric blues RealTracks, including electric blues with PG favorite Johnny Hiland (3) and soulful electric slide guitar from Colin Linden (4). If you love funk & gospel, there are great new options this year, including gospel organ (3) from Charles Treadway, as well as new funk, tango, and rock ’n’ roll drums (3) and bass (1). And for big, bold arrangements, we have uptempo soul horns (4) featuring a three-part hip horn section with options for a full mix or stems of each individual horn — plus an accompanying rhythm section (4) of drums, bass, guitar, and electric piano!
Rock & Pop (Sets 476–482):
Our new rock & pop RealTracks bring a powerful mix of requested favorites, fresh genres, and modern chart-inspired styles! We have more of our popular “Producer Layered Acoustic Guitars (15)” featuring Band-in-a-Box favorite Brent Mason. We’ve continued our much-requested disco styles (10), and added new Celtic guitar (5) with a more basic, accessible approach than our previous Drop-D or DADGAD offerings. There are also highly requested yacht rock styles (17), inspired by the smooth, polished soft-rock sound of the late ’70s and early ’80s — laid-back grooves, silky electric pianos, warm textures, elegant harmonic movement, and pristine production aesthetics. Fans of heavier styles will love our new glam metal (13), capturing the flashy, high-energy sound of ’80s arena-ready guitar rock. We also have a set of rootsy modern-folk rock (18), with a warm, organic sound combining contemporary folk textures and driving acoustic strumming. And we’ve added lots of new modern pop styles (16) — the kinds of sounds you’re hearing on the radio today, featuring exciting new drums, synths, and cutting-edge RealTracks arrangements.
Country, & Americana (Sets 483–488):
Our new country & Americana RealTracks deliver a rich collection of acoustic, electric, and roots-inspired styles! We have new country pop (9) with legendary guitarist Brent Mason. There is also a potpourri (14) of bouzouki, guitars, banjo, and more, perfect for adding texture and character to contemporary acoustic arrangements. We’ve added funky country guitar (5) with PG favorite Brent Mason, along with classic pedal steel styles (5) featuring steel great Doug Jernigan. There are more country songwriter styles (8) that provide intimate, rootsy foundations for storytelling and modern Americana writing. Finally, we have “background soloing” acoustic guitar (12) with Brent Mason — simpler, but still very tasty acoustic lines designed to sit beautifully behind vocals or act as a subtle standalone solo part.
Check out all the 202 new RealTracks (in sets 468-488)!
And, if you are looking for more, the 2026 49-PAK (for $49) includes an impressive collection of 20 bonus RealTracks, featuring exciting and inspiring additions to add to your RealTracks library. You'll get new country-rhythm guitar styles from PG Music favorites Johnny Hiland and Brent Mason, along with modern-pop grooves that capture today’s radio-ready sound! There are also new indie-folk styles with guitar, bass, 6-string bass used as a high-chording instrument, acoustic guitar, and banjo. Plus, dedicated "cymbal fills" RealDrums provide an added layer that work very well with low-key folky styles with other percussion.
The 2026 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2026 49-PAK!
2026 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
With your version 2026 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons for FREE! Or upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2026 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 27 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 25 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 12 new RealStyles.
- MIDI Styles Set 92: Look Ma! More MIDI 15: Latin Jazz
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 46: Piano & Organ
- Instrumental Studies Set 24: Groovin' Blues Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 19: Songs with Vocals 9
- Playable RealTracks Set 5
- RealDrums Stems Set 9: Cool Brushes
- SynthMaster Sounds Set 1 (with audio demos)
- iOS Android Band-in-a-Box® App
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyle.
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- MIDI Styles Set 93: Look Ma! More MIDI 16: SynthMaster
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 47: More SynthMaster
- Instrumental Studies 25 - Soul Jazz Guitar Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 20: Songs with Vocals 10
- RealDrums Stems Set 10: Groovin' Sticks
- SynthMaster Sounds & Styles Set 2 (sounds & styles with audio demos)
Learn more about the Bonus PAK and 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums57
Topics86,508
Posts805,812
Members40,139
| |
Most Online64,515
Apr 8th, 2026
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean