PG Music Home Forums General Discussion Off-Topic General question on writing lyrics

Okay, so I am getting excited about trying my hand at writing my own lyrics. Where do I begin? Melody or story line? Or?

I have a roughed out story but no melody, yet.

I think Black Blues, ala "Mississippi" John Hurt or Muddy Waters, in a AAB format would be easiest for a rank amateur. I wrote the first verse last night but it lacks meter so I'm beginning to think that I need a melody to sync to first.

Man, we composers have our problems! Writer's block on day two?! LOL

TIA

Read your lyrics to yourself over and over and over and see if you start to sense a cadence to them. If they don't have a timing flow, look at other ways to say the same thing. And consider contractions if you have timing issues. If you have "can't" or "don't" somewhere and need another syllable, change to "can not" or "do not". Keep rhyming in mind and start thinking about rhyming patterns. You can rhyme the 1/2 and 3/4 AABB fashion, or 1/3 and 2/4 in ABAB. Once you feel that lyrical cadence the melody will come to you.

The main thing is telling the story in order. Just like you'd tell it sitting in a living room full of people. Just tell your story.

Don,

I agree with what Eddie says. What I do is read my lyrics in time against a drum beat. If I can't get them to fit the drum rhythm, I modify them until they do.

One of the great things about BIAB is being able to put in a chord progression, pick a style and say the lyrics in time while the style is playing. I find that writing lyrics this way is very productive.

Here's an example of what I mean. It's a song on which both MarioD and I collaborated. Initially, I wrote some lyrics and spoke them in time against a BIAB accompaniment. I then sent the file to Mario for him to write a melody.

Note: the below files are streaming audio so they'll take a few seconds to kick in.

... link to original file sent to Mario

And here's the final product after tweaking tempo, lyrics, melody, chords.

... link to final song

Hope this gives you some food for thought.

Regards,
Noel

Don, there are many resources to help spark your thoughts on this. There was a thread about a month ago that addressed this. Don't miss an opportunity to take the tried and true country music lyric writing clever twists or sideways view of idioms and so forth. I just listened to a relatively new Allison Krauss and Union Station CD I'm borrowing from the Library where one of the lines that is memorable from one of the songs goes: Every silver lining always seems to have a cloud.
There's all kinds of idioms and cliches and what not that you can play with in this way now and then.

Here's one that I just thought up to give an example.

Momma's been in traction these 6 weeks past.
My feet fall where they may; always find the crack.

Have fun with it, don't be afraid to use unconventional tools. Here's a website that is associated with the february album writing month challenge that are some tools that can help to spark thoughts. http://muse.fawm.org

Download the VersePerfect freeware app - and when you get stuck on a word, take a look at the poetry examples that VersePerfect references that include words in your existing lyric. It also has a great rhyming dictionary.

Pauses are also o.k., like a great break in a song, they have their place as well.

Try all kinds of forms. Try a refrain line only song, etc.

Hey Don,

Lyric writing is a big subject for a wee reply. So this is a tad long. I would suggest for anyone starting out to read a book on songwriting by Jason Blume. You can get one cheap on eBay or Amazon. In the meantime here‘s my two cents.

It doesn’t matter which comes first the melody or the lyrics or both at once. I suggest you start out by using the study song method.

Find a few AABA songs or whichever form you like. Notice how the lyrics are written. Where are the rhymes, what is the cadence - the rhythm of the words, how many syllables are in each line, how do they match from stanza to stanza and verse to verse, How do the rhymes and rhythms differ in the bridge?

Next pick one of the songs and rewrite it making the changes necessary so your lyric basically syncs with your study song's lyric and melody.

Write your first draft with no pressure knowing you can go back later and change anything you want. Write the whole thing. Let it rest. Go back to it. It’s probably not feeling quite right yet.

Look at your study song’s original lyrics again. How did they describe their story or feeling? Most song lyrics combine showing (imagery) with telling. Make your lyrics show and tell too.

One other important point, it’s okay to use a cliché if there are interesting things around it. However a bunch of tired cliches thrown together to most listeners is going to be boring. They’ve all heard it a zillion times before. The only people who get away with that are already famous. Try to make your lyric fresh and interesting with your unique perspective.

Since you are using the melody of your study song as a guide you MUST change that melody completely once your new lyrics are done. It’s a learning exercise period. Your new melody must be your own creation.

Many people settle for the first melody that pops in their head. Experiment a while before you decide on the keeper. Play your new melody without the lyrics - is the feeling you want to share there?

Most songs are 10% inspiration and 90% perspiration.

Once your song is finished go to the tips and tricks forum and watch the video from the link I posted there from the Nashville publisher. There’s practical advice for songwriters of all genres.

After you’ve done this exercise you’ll understand more of what he’s talking about. And once you’ve used a study song once or twice to learn the ropes, you will drop that learning crutch and write on your own..

And last but not least you can ignore everything I’m saying here, have a good time, write whatever you want, throw some music on it, call it all for fun and not worry about it. If it’s for your own enjoyment, there’s really only one person to please and that's you.

But since you asked ......

Don, good advice above.

I always read before I go to sleep,
and I snore all night, no need for sheep,
I awake in the morning totally refreshed
which annoys the wife as I get dressed.

That's not a good example but I found jotting down stupid little rhymes like that seemed to develope into songs. I write down headlines from newspapers that catch my eye, I always have a thesaurus by my side next to the rhyming dictionary. I used to write my lyrics to songs I liked and found writing 12 bar type songs helped with the flow of words.
It doesn't happen immediately tho' and I have hundreds of scraps of paper, pre computer days, and txt files with sentences that I randomly look at now, when stuck for words.

Fire up BIAB, find a style you like, randomly input chords and repeat as necessary while saying, singing, thinking words that pop up in your head. The initial ones may be awful but then you can fine tune them when you find a tune/chord sequence you like.

One of my Dad's friends, a jazz pianist, told me not to try to hard and if a song is there it will soon appear but don't expect to write "Yesterday" at the 1st attempt. Also Paul McCartney apparently said that the 1st words to that song were "scrambled eggs"

Have fun
Alyn

start with some free form writing. pick a topic and sit down and write for 20 minutes. use paper and pencil and a timer and NOT a computer so you're not distracted by this forum or Facebook or whatever!

just write. don't edit...you'll do that later. if you edit as you go you'll squash your creativity. write anything and everything about your topic that comes to mind. repeat every day for a few days. now you'll have a few pages of interesting ideas to work into your song.

my next step is to pick up the guitar and work out a chord progression I like. I'll start humming along with it and pretty soon I've got one or two melody lines. then I try and fit some of my prose into the line.

rinse and repeat until you have a whole song!

another tip is, verse 1-the past, verse 2-the present and verse 3-the future.

oh and check out some of the resources available like this site, http://www.robinfrederick.com/ . I also bought her book which is fantastic.

Another cool resource I use is MasterWriter (http://www.masterwriter.com/creative_writer/index.html) It has tons of tools like rhyming dictionary, phrases, thesaurus, word families and a lot more. I use it all the time to help craft my lines.

Hi Don.

You've got lots of good advice here already and possibly the only thing I can add is to be careful not to make your melody too complex. A sung melody is usually much simpler than an instrumental melody and when people write a tune on say piano or guitar, it often ends up being difficult to sing.

The rhythm of the vocal line is just as important as the notes and it's common to use what we call "nonsense lyrics" at first, just to get the number of syllables right. The nonsense lyrics are anything that comes into your head when you listen to the music and sometimes one line from these can give you an idea what the song might be about.

Composers who send music to a lyricist will often use nonsense lyrics instead of the tune played on an instrument, so the lyricist can get a better feel for how the song will be performed.

Good luck with the project!

ROG.

Lyrics that I really enjoy are those that mentally trick the listener. When you believe that you know where the story is leading, it suddenly takes a sharp detour and catches you totally unaware. It may not be the total theme but even within a verse or a single stanza.

Wow, you wonderful folks bring tears t'me wee Oyrish oyes. Thank you so much.

Don,
You have the title of your first song:

Quote:

---

Tears t'me wee Oyrish oyes

---

Alyn

Good'n Alyn. Ony probum, Ize b'doin it in Ebonics.

K, here's dat fus vus:

Celia gal dun thowed me out dat doe
Yes, Celia dun thowed me out dee doe
Well, I won’t miss Celia but I’ll miss my dog, that’s sho

I warn'd ju!

It's a very serious first shot and I am striving for that 30s Delta Blues thing. Jimmy Rodgers did well copying the black blues-men of the era. He even used brass effectively.

I fear that nobody besides me will want to listen but its a starting point, a launching pad, if you will.

Lyrics - I usually (but not always) start with a 'ghost' song that motivates me and then start finding my own lyrics to it, using the tempo and rhythm of the 'ghost'. That helps a lot. I also just write poems (which aren't poems but songs as can be so clearly demonstrated by reading them at a poetry gathering as I have done). Still, it seems the poets don't mind at all. Maybe they would really love to write songs but don't know how? Personally, I love 'story' songs and songs with an unexpected twist that surprise the listeners and make them think. For me, invariably the lyrics come before the melody.

Software - I find MasterWriter excellent for creating lyrics. When coming to the music side of things, obviously, PG software and you might well find MS Songsmith (which has heavy input from PG Music) to be helpful

Melodies - try reading the song out loud and recording that so you can hear yourself tell it with expression. Then exaggerate the pitches as they rise and fall. The melody will soon become fairly obvious. Personally, I try to ignore styles or arrangements at this point as I believe a melody should be able to stand on its own with no music whatsoever. If it can do this, it leaves the field wide open for you to set it to absolutely ANY style. Unfortunately, too often musicians think arrangements first. I think it was Gershwin (but I'm not sure it was him, maybe somebody else) in a film about his life screamed at a composer who was working with him; "I want melodies and you are giving me arrangements!"

Keys - I find it easiest to write down the melody in the key of C as there are no sharps or flats to worry about. Once you have the melody down, you will also find it easier to arrange. Once you have done that, you can then transpose it to whatever key best suits the singer's vocal range.

Tempo and rhythm are vital - take a listen to rap (which I can't stand) as there is no melody there at all (usually) but the tempo and rhythm are vital. Rap is still song, apparently (but not in my book), but I prefer to look at it as poetry set to music. Use a metronome or a click track where you can. As a very general rule of thumb, dancing / rock tracks are somewhere around 120bpm and ballads / love songs are somewhere around 80bpm. Of course, this varies from song to song but is as good a starting place as any.

Music Styles / Arrangements - I think it must be easier with Jazz as the chord progressions are usually pretty straight forward on a 32 bar chorus. 12 bar songs are also easy but there are too many of them around. Country and Rock songs can be a lot more surprising as you may want the chord progression to follow the melody and not the other way round.

Books to read - there are plenty of really excellent books on songwriting that I could recommend but everything I have is in boxes at the moment as I moved in August into a new flat and have not had time to unpack yet. I can remember there is a Dummie's Guide which is not a bad place to start. As I recall, it also breaks things down into constituent parts and then shows you how they were built. I believe it also contains some exercises to help you on your way.

Alternatively, find yourself a collaborator. I am very lucky to have several professional musicians in my band, including a piano player who has studied composition at Vienna University. She helps me to find the melody and is teaching me how to write it down. In her opinion a dictaphone or a Zoom(?) is extremely useful as it can be used absolutely anywhere. I know my strengths - lyrics, arranging and singing. The rest I leave to the band. And it is MY band. You may find your strengths lie in other areas and you find a collaborator to write the lyrics for you. I also collaborate with another musician on HIS songs where he has a vague idea of what he wants to say (in German) but wants a full set of song lyrics for it in English. In this respect, I ask him all the possible questions I can (who, what, where, when, why, how, etc), make notes, listen to him play over and over again, scribble down ideas, discuss it some more, expand and so on. Then I start to take out bits I don't really like and then polish off. He's happy. I'm happy.

You asked for advice, this is how I work. Of course, you may totally disagree and find some other way. There is more than one way to skin a rabbit...

HTH

Thanks, Mac. You've known me long enough (pushing 20 years, IIRC) to know I mean no offense.

As I type, I am listening to John Hurt's rendering of his Delta Blues styling and I hear the Hurt influence in the music of "The Singing Brakeman," Jimmy Rodgers. Hurt pushed the envelope on censorship and profanity long before it came in vogue with his song "Richland Woman" (qv).

I hope merely to capture John's pronunciation of the English language, a language that I love deeply, without offending anyone. If I'm out of line to reflect Americana as I see and feel it, then please stop me.

And always have fun with it.....

Remember when Hammer ripped off Have You Seen Her? I used to do a comedy bit about how you can say ANYTHING if you say it fast enough and end up at home plate. And we broke into the song and I "rapped"

I get up in the morning and I go downstairs
I take a sh*t and then a shower and I comb my hair
have you seen her ... tell me have you seen her
i toast some bread i fry and egg and let the coffee brew
i feed the dog i read the paper just to get the news
have you seen her....

and then they were laughing so hard we just stopped.

Oh, I should mention at that point I was wearing big balloon pants like Hammer, a vest with no shirt, a ghetto cap and a medallion that was a hub cap hanging from lamp chain.....

I carry a tiny voice recorder everywhere I go. I will record a phrase or hum a melody line that occurs to me all hours of the day. I truly believe a major part of songwriting is being there and capturing those little lightbulb moments before they inevitably slip away!