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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 12
Newbie
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OP
Newbie
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 12 |
Hello, I just built a rather beefy Win 7 system with i5-3570 CPU, 8 gigs ram, AS-Rock Z77 Pro3 1155 ATX Intel Motherboard. I'd like to move my BIAB from my old utility Win XP system to this one, since my current setup takes a while to generate playback solutions etc and I get some pops and clicks in playback and rendering. What kind of performance improvements in BIAB might I expect if I invest in something like: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102003over and above the on-board sound of the AS-Rock motherboard? I would probably use headphones a lot. Is it worth it? Do I need to blow $100+ on a sound card to make a real difference? I use Reaper as a DAW, but may explore the one that came with BIAB.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 2,498
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Veteran
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 2,498 |
look at my signature block my MoBo is an Asrock P67 EXTREME4 GEN3
I didn't take Mac's advice over a year ago and got a high end creative card cause I couldn't believe the built in Realtek was plenty good 'nuff (and I also use mine for GAMING and multimedia analysis and reporting) - my Creative board is still in SHRINK wrap!
Oh and I use Sonar X2 as well as BIAB/RB and a few others...
my 2 cents
Good luck and Happy New Year
Larry
Last edited by Larry Kehl; 12/31/12 10:34 AM.
Win10Pro,i9,64GB,2TBSSD+20TBHDDs,1080TI,BIAB'24,Scarlett18i8,Montage7,Fusion 8HD,QS8,Integra7,XV5080,QSR,SC-8850,SPLAT,FL21&others,Komp.14,IK suite&others, just a guitar player-AXE FX III &FM9T, FishmanTP, MIDIGuitar2, GK2/3'sw/GI20
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,926
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,926 |
The biggest things a third-party audio interface will get you are better quality audio I/O and lower latency than the onboard chipset, typically in the 6-10 msec range. I do suggest that you consider something other than the Audigy. Its sound quality is fine, but it is oriented towards games and movies. If you plan to make music with it, a dedicated audio interface will offer a pro-level signal path and full-size jacks as well as other features determined by specs and accompanying software. If you have old-style MIDI gear with five-pin DIN connectors, look for MIDI I/O as well. You will get plenty of opinions here as to what is best, but you can do fine in the same price range.
HTH,
Richard
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 434
Journeyman
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Journeyman
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 434 |
Last edited by PaulH; 12/31/12 10:53 AM.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,869
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,869 |
Creative is certainly NOT a name in the audio business. No pro audio system would use them IMO. If your on a budget an Maudio 2496 would be on the list, but there are probably newer cards.
Get a mag like "Computer Music" and read up on the best per buck.
Win 11 64, Asus Rog Strix z390 mobo, 64 gig RAM, 8700k
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 8,021
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You built the computer so I assume you know this but thought I'd mention it anyway just in case.Does your computer have PCI or PCIe slots or both. Make sure you get a card that will work.If you have a PCI slot look for a used Delta 1010. 10 ins & 10 outs. PCI card with a breakout box. I bought one for $125
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 2,498
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Veteran
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 2,498 |
Quote:
... the built in Realtek was plenty good 'nuff ....
I meant for audio playback, VSTi's/softsynths soudn generation but for actual AUDIO INPUT for recording of microphones, electric guitar(via Signature 284 rack tube amp), keyboards & rack MIDI stuff (via external line mixers) I use an M-Audio Firewire 410 NOT the Realtek input.
my bad if I was misleading
Larry
Win10Pro,i9,64GB,2TBSSD+20TBHDDs,1080TI,BIAB'24,Scarlett18i8,Montage7,Fusion 8HD,QS8,Integra7,XV5080,QSR,SC-8850,SPLAT,FL21&others,Komp.14,IK suite&others, just a guitar player-AXE FX III &FM9T, FishmanTP, MIDIGuitar2, GK2/3'sw/GI20
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 12
Newbie
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OP
Newbie
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 12 |
Thanks for the replies. I have a Line6 TonePort UX1 as a recording interface for my sax (uses USB), where I usually use an ElectroVoice RE20 mic. So I guess I was really thinking more for BIAB playback and rendering without pops and clicks in the WAV file.
So, maybe I should just stick with the UX1 and what I have on the motherboard since I won't be banging on any MIDI keyboard or anything.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 11,010
Veteran
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 11,010 |
Saxguy007:
Since your incoming audio is digitized before it enters the computer, your computer system has one limiting factor, the digital noise level or noise floor.
Digital noise is generated predominately by the power supply but also by other internal computer components. You can find out the noise floor for your computer by setting Reapers record vu meters to be as sensitive as possible, turn the recording input volume up as far as it will go without anything connected to any recording input then press record. The db level the record vu meter floats at is your computer's noise floor. If your record db level floats in the -80 to -90 db range, you will never hear the noise, not even in your quiet passages.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 12
Newbie
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OP
Newbie
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 12 |
Thanks JimFogle. I'll keep that in mind for recordings!
My query is more about BIAB processing of audio OUTPUT, whether to file (as WAV file) or to the speakers.
Has anyone on this forum actually run BIAB with stock motherboard audio, then added a PCI sound card and noticed a difference/improvement? Although anecdotal, that would perhaps be the most useful "data" to me.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502 |
Hi saxguy007,
My input is anything but anecdotal on this subject. My observations are empirically derived. The various specs are indeed measurable, provided the right measuring equipments and knowhow are available.
Today's built in sound is rather good to great on these newer PCs, near audiophile quality in many cases, and there is good reason for that. You see, the large customer base of users interested in streaming online audio, video, etc. has created a situation where the mfr's have responded. And by comparison to the offerings of only a few years prior, their response has been stellar, actually. I use the internal sound of my laptop on live gigs, radio broadcasts, etc. with impunity, carrying audio connectors, adaptors and cabling in my laptop case that can adapt that "lowly" earphone jack to the Inpouts of soundboards, amplifiers, mixers, etc. and do not have any qualms about the sound quality at all. But that is for Playback purposes, read on.
So using the onboard sound for Playback purposes is certainly feasible.
As far as the creation of .wav files (and other compressed media files for that matter) the onboard soundcard has nothing to do with the conversion, today it is all done within the realm of the digital and thus will be the same regardless of soundcard choice.
The one caveat about using onboard sound comes around when the issue is Recording your own Audio. Here the onboard sound does not come up to the snuff of the playback abilities. The mfr's won't see a need to go to that expense either, unless and until market studies can show them that there are a majority of users demanding the kind of Input audio specs that are necessary for multitrack music recording. As of today, the great majority of users typically only use the Audio Inputs for headset phones and the like, and as you should know, the spoken voice does not really require the low noise, higher frequency bandwidth and other of the better audio aspects. Don't get me wrong here, the Input of laptop and desktop built in sound has indeed improved somewhat over what it used to be, but what it used to be was not that great to begin with. However, today it is indeed possible to use the internal sound for recording music and the hit taken is not as severe as it was, say back in the day when Win98 was the new OS. And you had to diable the taskbar clock to prevent audio interrupts. (!)
If you are serious about Multitrack Audio Recording, by all means consider the aftermarket sound device offerings seriously. As to whether you will "notice a difference" in what you hear, well, THAT is subjective in the sense that I cannot know very much about what you are able to hear, what you know about what you hear, etc. But I do know that the better way to "Learn to Trust Your Ears" -- which, incidentally, can become infallible as to such issues with enough time and study, thought and work.
In order to get those ears to be such trustworthy devices, makes sense to do all that you can that is affordable to make your listening as good as it can be.
--Mac
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