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Sorry - can't think of a better name for it.
I am making a Biab file of "I Know You By Heart" and at the end of the 4 bar Intro and each of the verses there is the briefest of pauses, as if you were taking breath before singing or playing what comes next. Its not a full bar - perhaps 1/4 or 1/2 bar - it is just THERE and adds emotion to the song instead of just crashing on with it. Any ideas how I could do that in Biab please?
A second thing - the 4 bar Intro ends with a chord of C2 in the second half of the 4th bar but the very last note of that 4 note arpeggio is stretched in the studio version. It kind of slows that bar down but only the one note, not all the bar. I could do that by Bar Settings. Is it possible just to slow one 1/2 of a bar down??
What works - sort of - is "C..." in the second half of the 4th bar, add Bar 5 with nothing in and DOUBLE the speed (so its half a bar long in time terms) and then Bar 6 reverts to normal tempo - 85.It kind of works but is not the full effect.
Any better ideas?
Ian
Last edited by sixchannel; 01/14/13 08:41 AM.
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You might try selecting the bar that needs to be 'paused', pressing F5 and setting the speed to a different value, then on the following bar, set it back to normal. You can either use a percentage value (- or +) or a Tempo Change, whichever works best for you  I don't think that you can change the tempo within a bar in the program. You are on the right track with the tempo change method, but another way could be to add an additional bar at the required place and set the number of beats to a lower value:  Then on the following bar, resume the number of beats as required. Remember that you cannot add more beats than the song time signature, only less. Best regards Trevor
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Correct, the tempo changes appear to be measure by measure. I would do what Noel suggested and add a bar of one beat. You will probably have to alter the tempo in that bar to make it faster, then use F5 in the next measure to restore the tempo and set 4 bests again.
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Quote:
How to create a "breathing space?
I've thought about the very same thing for a long time.
In the genres that I play in (I won't say "work in") blues, folk and country there are very often "breathing" spaces between verses or between verses and chorus.
And very, very often there are tiny little instrumental "spaces" also. (Think of the little mandolin runs in Hot Tuna's version of "Children of Zion.")
Sometimes, in BiaB I have entered one or two measures at the end of each "section" to reflect this space and come up with that jagged look.
And sometimes I just live without it.
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A bar or more of Silence, when done intentionally, is called a, "Grand Pause" in orchestral scoring.
Spaces that consist of less than one Bar are called, "Rests".
--Mac
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Okay, found the time to hit Youtube and found Eva Cassidy's version of "I Know You By Heart" -- the only one out of three examples that has an Intro as described.
What happens there is simply a ritardondo or, in modern terms, a ritard, at the last two beats of the last bar in the Intro.
"Breathing space" is not a musical term. We have to be able to count at all times so that all musicians will know when to play and when not to play. In a lot of cases, Ritards are Conducted by either a Conductor or by one of the musicians in the ensemble, such that all will do it together. Ensemble being the French for, "together".
BiaB can do ritards but by the bar and not by the beat, unfortunately.
But, if one were to make that one bar at the end of the Intro into two bars, each with two beats, using Bar Settings, it would be possible to slow the last of the two bars, those two beats, by using the tempo percentage and entering a negative value. Or changing the BPM to a lower one. Then don't forget to do the Bar Settings again at the following bar to return the thing to the right Tempo or it will keep playing at the slower tempo throughout.
--Mac
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Quote:
Spaces that consist of less than one Bar are called, "Rests".
--Mac
There's probably a bit more to it than that for which the O/P is trying to produce.
Besides Spaces, Rests, etc, there's also a Musical Pause - which is neither a ritard nor a rest
A rest doesn't pause or change the tempo, it simply means don't play a note at that position for the duration (value) of the rest. The song timing stays the same.
A 'Pause' on the other hand does indeed 'pause' the music at that point, whether it be for a note or a rest:
This is what I understand the O/P is looking to do with Band-In-A-Box
Kind regards
Trevor
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Professional & Windows 11, Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors
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Quote:
What happens there is simply a ritardondo or, in modern terms, a ritard, at the last two beats of the last bar in the Intro.
--Mac
The correct Italian term is Ritardando.
Reach for excellence
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So everything else I had to say up there must be wrong due to a mispelling? okay.
Spelling. Big Deal, I think you missed the real point entirely then.
--Mac
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Quote:
There's probably a bit more to it than that for which the O/P is trying to produce.
Besides Spaces, Rests, etc, there's also a Musical Pause - which is neither a ritard nor a rest
You show a Hold and call it a Pause. Fermata over a Quarter Note. Hard to "pause" if there's a note playing.
There is a thing called a "Grand Pause" that is used in orchestral musics mostly, where a Conductor is available to direct the start and stop and start again. But that is not typically a thing done to a tempo.
More importantly, if you had listened to the YouTube example of Eva Cassidy singing the target song, you would have or should have heard that there is no pause in the Intro, only a Ritard over the last two beats of the Intro.
There may be someone else's version of the song out there that has a Grand Pause in the Intro, I listened to three other offerings on Youtube but found no ritard or pause in their Intros, so went with the Eva Cassidy version. Only the OP can clear that one up by telling us whose recording they reference. I thought the odds are pretty in favor of Eva's.
--Mac
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Sorry guys-away on business so can't give you the link but the Arrangement is anINSTRUMENTAL of it by Audrey Auld Mezera and Nina Gerber. Hopefully, if you have Spotify you can listen to it. There are several places where the tempo slows or speeds up and these tiny rests after a verse (or before the next-whatever). I have the tempo thing OK but it is those small gaps ( for feel and emotion) I'm trying to get.
BTW - MAC, what is the effect of a negative value in Tempo? I'm not home till tomorrow but would like to understand.
Cheers
Ian
Ps- I don't care either about the posh Latin spelling.I have NO formal musical education- I just love my music.
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There are two ways to go about Tempo changes in the Bar Settings, sixchannel.
One is by simply entering a different BPM value.
The other is by percentage and is very useful for doing things like slowing tempo or speeding it up by the bar. That is where entering a negative percentage value comes in. For example, if your Tempo happened to be 100BPM and you invoke a Bar Setting to slow it down a bit, you might enter -10 % there. Then, it should change to 10 percent of the previous value.
--Mac
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Thanks MAc - now I understand.
Check your PM for link to the track I am working on. Its a LIVE performance of it by Audrey Auld Mezera and GHina Gerber
cheers
Ian
Last edited by sixchannel; 01/16/13 10:40 AM.
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Problem solved, I heard the file in question and replied to sixchannel via PM, but if anyone wants to know, the Intro consists of 4 bars in 4/4 time in which the 4th beat of the 2nd and 4th bars is nothing but a ritard. Tempo is slow, almost ballad tempo, so that one beat being slowed down can trick someone not used to counting, finding the pulse and finding the beat. Was done quite a bit in the Romantic era stuff as well. Nothing to see, move along.
--Mac
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Quote:
You show a Hold and call it a Pause. Fermata over a Quarter Note. Hard to "pause" if there's a note playing.
Sorry Mac, I guess I don't quite actually understand what you mean. You mentioned that I showed a Hold and called it a Pause then you correctly named is as a Fermata. I was certainly not trying to justify the correct technical nomenclature, just referring to the effect/intent that the O/P was trying to achieve, viz: How to create a "breathing space" . Do you mean that in reality a musician cannot pause/hold the duration of a note while it is playing? Even MIDI can do that by deferring the position of the corresponding note-off event.
From Wikipedia: 'A fermata (also known as a hold, pause...) is an element of musical notation indicating that the note should be sustained for longer than its note value would indicate'
Yes, it is also a Fermata, no question, also known as a hold, pause. But whether we call it a Fermata or Pause (or Hold) is not what's really important, it produces the same result. When I am playing, if I find any note with a Fermata/Pause above it, I still play the note. I extend the duration according to the 'feel' that either I or the conductor's interpretation demonstrates is required.
Re your comment: 'Hard to "pause" if there's a note playing.': I'm confused. In reality I can still pause/hold the duration of a note after it has commenced. Did you mean something different?
A Fermata / Pause/ Hold certainly does not mean 'stop playing the note then start playing it again'! Was that your interpretation?
Kind regards
Trevor
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Quote:
A Fermata / Pause/ Hold certainly does not mean 'stop playing the note then start playing it again'! Was that your interpretation?
Hi Trevor,
Those are three entirely different commands that cannot be lumped together as all having the same meaning.
My point is that the term, "Pause" in music refers to silence. As in the "Grand Pause" notation device in a score. Example of the Grand Pause can be found at the ending bars of Handel's "Hallelujah Chorus" as one example. A dramatic use of silence where the amount of time that the Grand Pause takes up is up to the Conductor. It is not related directly on the score to any Tempo, although a conductor may choose to do so or not.
Another way to indicate controlled amount of silence is to use Rests. This means that the amount of silence is always counted in time with the Tempo of the music, paying strict attention to the value of the Rests placed on the page. With this method, the composer or arranger can indicate a rather exact amount of silence, either for one instrument or all. Use of the various rest signs available can do anything from indicating the resting of an entire bar, multiple bars, or fractions of a bar, or combinations of both whole bars plus fraction of one bar. This is always governed by the Tempo of the song and therefore the musicians must count the rests in order to do it correctly.
The Fermata is used over a single note. The note is, of course sounding at the time. In the terminology used by Band in a Box, which is taken from modern music, specifically jazz and studio session terminology, the Fermata corresponds almost directly to "Hold" -- although the Hold does not break Tempo, we can make it sound like a Fermata was assigned to instruments by invoking a Hold and then invoking a slower Tempo over a bar, which may or may not work right since BB cannot apply the Tempo change to 1 beat. But we can change the number of beats in a bar in the same Bar Settings window and get that result if desired. For example, a typical 4/4 bar in which the last beat is to be assigned the Formata, we could divide that bar into one bar of 3 followed by one bar of 1, assign the Hold to the one bar of 1, then assign a slower Tempo to that bar. With a bit of careful experimentation as to the length of the Hold created, it is possible to simulate a scored Fermata and have it sound like one, if not Notationally Nice on the chart.
I have never encountered a Fermata used over a Rest. Will leave stuff like that up to the John Cage types.
--Mac
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I was, and am still taught to drop the tied note. Or to shorten a note. That can humanize a track. Because it's how humans have to do some written music. We write the apostrophe in for a breath mark in most of our pieces. Of course if we were all pros we could play FF tied whole notes over 10 bars at 70 bpm, the first time through on one breath, the second while circular breathing. RIGHT!!! 
John Conley
Musica est vita
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