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RealBand
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 41
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OP
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 41 |
Hello all,
I'm having trouble getting 5/4 MIDI material laid out in RB in a way that's straightforward to edit.
If I drag n' drop from Biab it arrives in RB sounding just like it should, but against the timeline in RB a bar of 5/4 takes up only 4 beats: if I have the timesignature set to 5/4 that means that the barlengths on the timeline are longer than a bar of the music, and if I set it to 4/4 the barlengths coincide, but in both cases there's 5 beats against 4 on the timeline, which makes the grid useless as a guide for editing work (for generated material and for stuff that I play into RB).
Possibly related to this (I really can't tell) is the fact that when I generate from within RB in a 5/4 style,it doesn't work at all if the timesignature is set to 5/4: the result is absolute rhythmic gobbledegook. Setting the timesignature back to 4/4 results in coherent music being generated, which is somewhat counter-intuitive but there it is.
Maybe there's something I should be doing that I'm not, or maybe there's a workaround, or maybe it happens to you too - I'd like to hear about it.
Clinton.
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RealBand
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 22,146
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If you generated in BiaB originally using one of the odd time styles in BiaB, it doesn't actually do 5/4.
It divides the 4/4/ bar into 5 beats. Sounds weird, but here is the difference.
In 4/4 at tempo of 120 each beat is 500 ms (if memory is right). 500ms X 4 beats = 2000ms
So that same 2000 ms is now divided into 5 beats, which means each beat is now actually 400 ms
Using my handy dandy music tempo/time calculator program (that I made myself by the way)
400 ms = tempo of 150
When you open the BiaB song in RB and change it to 5/4 time, try changing the tempo to 150 and see if things line up.
It doesn't make any sense, but see if it works.. you're just trying to make the bars line up to the actual time divisions.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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RealBand
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 41
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OP
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 41 |
Nifty idea Rharv, but unfortunately it doesn't work. With data already in RB, a tempo change doesn't alter the relationship of the data to the grid: it simply makes it go faster (or slower)and the timeline changes accordingly, which when you think about it is exactly what a tempo change routine should do.
So next I went back to my 135bpm Biab Take five and dropped it into RB set at 187(not an exact integer correspondence but close enough to see if the strategy would work)with a 5/4 timesignature. What I got was a fast Take five with five music beats in the space of four beats on the grid, just as previously.
What I need is to be able to alter the timeline independently without changing the information within, and there's very likely just no way to do this.
If on the other hand RB could generate coherent material in a 5/4 style while set to 5/4 all would be well, but it seems it wont so I guess I'm snookered.
Clinton.
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RealBand
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 22,146
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Joined: May 2000
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Sounds like you might have to convert the BiaB tracks to audio and import them into RB.
Then use the time/tempo change trick.
Best I can offer for a workaround.
RB can generate 5/4, but it doesn't play well with the 5/4 styles created for BiaB.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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RealBand
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 41
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OP
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 41 |
Hi rharv, and thanks for following up.
I guess I could get things lined up by working in audio, but then of course my MIDI-type editing capability is lost. My inclination would probably be to continue with MIDI and edit manually using my ear to guide me (forgoing quantizing routines, for example), and be very careful lining up copy/paste functions.
And while I'm about it, it's time to express my appreciation to you and all the others on this forum who reply to the huge range of queries from befuddled users like myself - bless you all!
On account of having just now downloaded Sampletank and seeing on the forum that more savvy people than me seem to have issues getting it to work nicely with RB, I've got a feeling I'll be back with lots of questions before too long!
Clinton.
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RealBand
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Joined: May 2000
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Joined: May 2000
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That's one way of looking at it, depends on your work flow and what you are comfortable with.
To me it would be worth going to audio to get things lined up in RB
Reason: Then I could re-generate many other styles and also have the flexibility in RB of all MIDI functions lining up correctly 'from this point forward'.
In other words, if I had taken BiaB as far as I thought it could go (time/effort wise), I'd feel it was worth it to convert and move on to RB and keep working in a comfortable way.
But that's just me.
Also
In my experience Sampletank works fine, just takes a little effort and attention setting it up. Again, personal workflow comes into play.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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RealBand
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 41
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OP
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Thanks rharv, I'll keep it in mind.
Clinton.
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