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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21
Enthusiast
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OP
Enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21 |
I seem to be one of those guys who just doesn't really "get it" when it comes to BIAB. I usually upgrade to the newest version every 3 or 4 years, but I never seem to be able to crack the code and use it to its fullest advantage.
I usually try a few new songs, and simply can't find just the right style for it.. something always seems to be totally off, whether drums, bass, both, or another combination. I know there are probably ways to borrow a bass style, for example, from another style and import it in, but I really can't figure out how. I find the interface to be fairly confusing and complex.
Another challenge might be the fact that I only have the Megapak, and the UlraPlus might have a lot more styles to choose from.
I've also had much trouble even finding suitable styles in past years, but it looks like PG is trying to make it easier.
I'm not blaming the software, but rather my seeming inability to fully grasp it. Maybe it's such a jack-of-all-trades that its difficult for me to fully comprehend the uses for it.
So, having said all that, my question is, are there any quality, professionally produced, step-by-step tutorials out there that can start me from the ground up and help me gain a deeper understanding of the software? I know there are user tutorials out there which are very useful, but I'm thinking I need a more structured learning environment, taking me from the basics up through using the more advanced features.
Thanks for any advice.
p.s. I'll be glad to upgrade to the UltraPlus Pack if it will be helpful in finding more appropriate styles.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,815
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,815 |
I hear you loud and clear. The hardest thing to do, as a songwriter, is to find the "exact" style and mix of instruments from BIAB so that your vision of the song is brought to life without BIAB changing it in too many ways.
You just have to do it. If you have a guitar/vocal of a new song, post it here and maybe some folks can find styles and instruments that will work great (or point out some things to try). Real tracks do play a big role in my songs, so unless you have all the realtracks, then my kind of help will be minimal. However, lots of folks here are still mostly midi.
Having said all that, sometimes I let BIAB take a compositional/arrangement role and, yes, the songs will morph quite a bit from my original guitar/vocal worktape. Sometimes that is good (ha, ha).
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,424
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,424 |
As with all tools of any trade, you need to appreciate what they do, and what they don't. I use BiaB as a starting point.
I might work in BiaB to get a chord sequence down and then pick through the styles to find the most interesting one.
Then move it over to RB, and there i choose to add more tracks, maybe midi, RTs, Rd, Personally played tracks, loops, and whatever i feel makes the song better.
Sometime I use mostly RTs, sometimes BiaB nails it, sometimes it needs a lot of help.
No matter what they are all tools, and I don't expect anyone of them to give me the complete song. To me that is not the fun part, creating the song is.
Each of us will have a different process, and no ones is better than the others, just different. I do think that just picking a style, and generating and expecting BiaB to nail it every time could be a bit disappointing.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2025, Realband, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 9 32c , Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21
Enthusiast
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OP
Enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21 |
Thanks guys. I'm probably having trouble imagining a good workflow, and I am a bit confused about the difference between BIAB and RB, although I'm starting to get an idea from your explanations.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,786
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,786 |
well, I have only scratched the surface of BIAB and I discover something new and delightful almost every time I use it. Here are some of the ways I use it,
1) as a songwriting aid - experiment with a verity of chord progressions in a variety of styles and see if anything strikes me. I often come up with a basic structure for my song and render it to an mp3 to listen to in the car and I begin to sing along and find lyrics that way.
2) as the most advanced metronome/click track ever - In order to have my tracks all line up I tried using a click track and a metronome and was always put off by both. Hard to feel inspired by a clicking sound. But now I go into BIAB and pick a style roughly similar to where I want the final song to be and render that to use as my "click track". Amazing how much easier it is to lay down my vocals and other tracks with a full band in my ear!
3) as a backup band for practice - I'll pick a groove I want and drop some chords in there and render that to use as a backing track for practice. As I speed up I can increase the speed of the track. If I wanna change keys BIAB does that easily too.
4) as studio musicians for some of my demos - sometimes I find a complete style that needs nothing else from me other than my vocals. It isso delightful to have a bluegrass song in mind, go to BIAB and find exactly the "band" you need, record your vocals, mix it up and bang...you have a song! Or, maybe all your need is drums and bass...you'll find them in BIAB. I know there are guys here who always roll their own and don't use styles and I expect to be doing that some day as well.
Basically the tool is unlimited! Now, with that said I did purchase the package that has all the RealTracks. I am not into midi at all so I do not think I would be satisfied with BIAB without the RealTracks.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 392
Journeyman
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Journeyman
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 392 |
I think you need to do what I haven't done...that is access the User's Guide and just dive in...page for page.
Personally, I think that doing so with a PDF version on the computer is cumbersome. I need to print out the manual so I can use Post-It Notes to point me to specific topics of interest to me.
I just have a "love" relationship with BIAB...not "love/hate" because any inabilities I have to fully utilize the software stems from my own lack of initiative to DIG IN to the documentation.
The problems I face, are that I'm not a "power user" and have something less than a great memory so I learn things....don't use them for a month or two...and forget what I had previously learned...therefore, the Post-It Notes.
There is also a library to video tutorials...very few of which I've viewed. But I think that they are "required viewing" for anyone who wants to do a deep dive into this software.
(-:
Jim
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 23,014
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 23,014 |
Steambc, PG Music has a ton of free instructional videos here: http://www.pgmusic.com/videos.bbwin.htmI would also suggest that you take time and listen to some of the songs over on the User Showcase forum. Over there you can hear what some of the styles sound like, some all RealTracks, some all MIDI and some with both, in a song environment. Although people use BiaB differently a lot of users like myself start in BiaB then finish the song in the DAW of their choice. If you are not familiar with a DAW I strongly suggest that you look into RealBand. But I would learn BiaB first before going to a DAW if you have never used a DAW before.
My momma didn't raise a fool. And if she did it, was one of my brothers.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,424
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,424 |
Steamy, just keep diggin' there is so much to learn. Maybe one day I'll have learnt it all!
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2025, Realband, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 9 32c , Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,259
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,259 |
I've learned a lot but don't even consider myself half way there yet. I don't have a love-hate relationship with the program overall, but sometimes I do with some of the features such as ties in notation. However, that's not the fault of BIAB but rather my own lack of understanding of how things work. As Mario pointed out there are lots of videos to watch. You might want to visit the Support Forum just to see how much stuff is available there to help you.
I don't know how you go about learning stuff. I have to cut things up into slices or I get overwhelmed. For example, I might have to just concentrate on hybrid styles and shut everything else out for awhile. YMMV
Stan
Cornet Curmudgeon
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,524
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,524 |
BIAB is great at filling out a song idea. It is also great at backing tracks for practicing. And a bazillion other things. What it's not good at is filling in the accompaniment behind, for example, a killer bass line you just composed. You CAN get there at times, but the truth is the BIAB musicians aren't listening to you, and can't riff off of you. They are marching to a different beat, per se. Still a killer program, and great to interact with. It's just not able to interact with you. Wouldn't surprise me if the gurus at PGMusic are already working this. (See Jamstix for a drumming program that "listens" to performances to determine how it responds.) But for now, enjoy what we have! 
Last edited by DC Ron; 02/20/13 07:57 PM.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 9
Newbie
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Newbie
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 9 |
steambc,
You frustration / confusion is totally understandable. BIAB is a complex piece of software and a lot of complexity really comes from the difficult goal that the program is trying to achieve: help you create good-sounding music (and doing it at home, with no other professional musicians or producers around).
Thus, the main advice is - unfortunately - patience!
You really should follow MarioD's advice and watch the video tutorials. BTW, listen to some of his music on the Showcase - it is great (and it was made with a lot of help from BIAB)!
As a bit of a more practical advice on how to create your own workflow, think about this (assuming you are writing your own song or creating your own arrangement of a piece of music). I also assume that you have already created the basic melodic and harmonic structure for your song:
1. Decide which musical genre will best showcase the ideas you want your song to convey.
2. Decide what tempo best matches the musical and lyrical contents of your song.
3. Only then, use BIAB to help you try your song in several styles from your chosen genre.
4. Not all parts will be perfect (matching your vision), so you can then substitute individual tracks (this where reading the manual and watching the videos will pay off) for one, several or all parts of your arrangement until you have the basic elements of the song in place.
5. Then (and this is only my approach, other folks do things differently) transfer your work into a DAW (RB or one of your choice) and edit / change /add / delete, etc. different parts of your song until you have all the recorded parts done to your heart's desire.
6. Now you're off to mixing and then mastering your masterpiece, but this is a completely separate story...
Hope that this helps.
Best Regards,
Oleg.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,693
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,693 |
Quote:
I usually try a few new songs, and simply can't find just the right style for it.. something always seems to be totally off, whether drums, bass, both, or another combination. I know there are probably ways to borrow a bass style, for example, from another style and import it in, but I really can't figure out how. I find the interface to be fairly confusing and complex.
Many times when a person complains about the styles they're referring to trying to create an exact or close to it cover of a classic song. Biab is not designed for that "out of the box" but it can be done by you creating a custom style for your song plus working with tracks from a midi file and/or working with a loop. Midi file tracks and loops can give you certain song specific hooks that when combined with a few Biab style tracks can sound very good. For creating covers Biab is not a one mouse click solution, it's all in the styles and for copyright reasons PG cannot give you classic song styles with all that stuff in them, you have to do that yourself or buy the styles from a 3rd party like Norton Music.
As for the complexity, yeah Biab is complex and that's a good thing. If it were simple it wouldn't be such an amazing program. Just keep plugging away and learn the good stuff.
You mentioned Real Band. RB is a great companion to Biab and I recommend to new people all the time that when you're learning Biab you should learn RB at the same time. One hour with Biab, one hour with RB. There's a lot there I won't go into here, check out the RB forum.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 196
Apprentice
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Apprentice
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 196 |
Quote:
BIAB is great at filling out a song idea. It is also great at backing tracks for practicing. And a bazillion other things. What it's not good at is filling in the accompaniment behind, for example, a killer bass line you just composed. You CAN get there at times, but the truth is the BIAB musicians aren't listening to you, and can't riff off of you. They are marching to a different beat, per se. Still a killer program, and great to interact with. It's just not able to interact with you. Wouldn't surprise me if the gurus at PGMusic are already working this. (See Jamstix for a drumming program that "listens" to performances to determine how it responds.) But for now, enjoy what we have!
Thanks for the tip about Jamstix 3. I use BIAB extensively as a skeleton backing that I transfer to Sonar and add my software libraries. BIAB produces some great drum backings but often it not quite right with no “up-to-date” variation (i.e. non-static) for the tune being developed because there is just a constant beat with predetermined fills. So I often have to program Ezdrummer to do the part. Jamstix 3 looks like just the thing to “drive” Ezdrummer VST or by itself that would seem to make development much easier. What is impressive is the ability to import a ‘midi groove’ from Ezdrummer for example or alternative package that is then “spiced up” by Jamstix or extracting from the ‘other styles’ option. The videos at the site are very interesting indeed.
http://www.rayzoon.com/jamstix3_vid.html
And yes for those who run BIAB exclusively a similar drumming driver would seem perhaps to be a possibility for the PGMusic magicians to research and include.
Regards F
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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Band-in-a-Box 2025 Italian Version is Here!
Cari amici
È stata aggerate la versione in Italiano del programma più amato dagli appassionati di musica, il nostro Band-in-a-Box.
Questo è il link alla nuova versione 2025.
Di seguito i link per scaricare il pacchetti di lingua italiana aggiornati per Band-in-a-Box e RealBand, anche per chi avesse già comprato la nuova versione in inglese.
Band-in-a-Box 2025 - Italiano
RealBand 2025 - Italiano
Band-in-a-Box 2025 French Version is Here!
Bonjour à tous,
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 pour Windows est disponible en Français.
Le téléchargement se fait à partir du site PG Music
Pour ceux qui auraient déjà acheté la version 2025 de Band-in-a-Box (et qui donc ont une version anglaise), il est possible de "franciser" cette version avec les patchs suivants:
BIAB 2025 - francisation
RealBand 2025 - francisation
Voilà, enjoy!
Band-in-a-Box 2025 German Version is Here!
Update Your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 to Build 1128 for Windows Today!
Already using Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Windows®? Download Build 1128 now from our Support Page to enjoy the latest enhancements and improvements from our team.
Stay up to date—get the latest update now!
Update to RealBand® 2025 Build 5 Windows Today!
Already using RealBand® 2025 for Windows®? Download Build 5 now from our Support Page to ensure you have the latest enhancements and improvements from our team.
Get the latest update today!
PowerTracks Pro Audio 2025 for Windows is Here!
PowerTracks Pro Audio 2025 is here! This new version introduces many features, including VST3 support, the ability to load or import a .FLAC file, a reset option for track height in the Tracks window, a taller Timeline on the Notation window toolbar, new freeze buttons in the Tracks window, three toolbar modes (two rows, single row, and none), the improved Select Patch dialog with text-based search and numeric patch display, a new button in the DirectX/VST window to copy an effects group, and more!
First-time packages start at only $49. Already a PowerTracks Pro Audio user? Upgrade for as little as $29!
www.pgmusic.com/powertracks.htm
Video: Summary of the New Band-in-a-Box® App for iOS®
Join Tobin as he takes you on a tour of the new Band-in-a-Box® app for iOS®! Designed for musicians, singer-songwriters, and educators, this powerful tool lets you create, play, and transfer songs effortlessly on your iPhone® or iPad®—anytime, anywhere.
Band-in-a-Box® for iOS® :Summary video.
Check out the forum post for more information.
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