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I'm pretty sure I have yet to present this one in this forum. I skipped it, because I knew it needed more work and was not near ready for public consumption. I am still smoothing out the rough edges on it, but I am feeling adventurous enough to go ahead and give it some spotlight. Once again, all BIAB, save for the main rhythm guitar. Suggestions, always welcome. Might need some java for this, it's lengthy. Visions
Can you see yourself, at where you want to be?
In that little world, you visit constantly?
You start wondering, just what's in your reach,
'Cos you really believe, you deserve to be free.
But they're only visions, of what you can be.
Yeah, they're only visions, a bunch of mixed-up dreams,
That I just can't put together, 'cos there's a missing piece,
But they're something to treasure. They're something to achieve.
I see myself on top, and I feel brand new.
I see the people laugh, and I see them cry too.
And I just have to smile, 'cos it makes me feel good,
To feel them want you, and to be understood.
So I'm watching all the people, and how they operate,
Treating them as ethereal, and purging any hate.
Improving my tolerance, loving my enemies,
And if I live through it, I'll get there someday,
I'll never stop believing, that I'm not ordinary,
And I've got to live that vision, before I fade away.
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Hi RG, Although this is not a genre that I'm very familiar with, I've got to hand it to you. This is a very heartfelt and sincere presentation on every level. The backing you've put together worked for me. It's inventive and well mixed. I'm curious, have you tried lifting the vocals a tad, say about 1 - 2 dB? They sounded a little back into the mix on my speakers. As I've already said, I'm not familiar with this genre and I know that some styles have vocals more as part of the background than foreground. If that's the case here, please ignore my comment. I'm only mentioning it in case it's useful  All the best, Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2025
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hi rg i would raise the vocals as well good mix though thanks for sharing eric
AMD (TM) 5950 4.9 GHz 16Core Processor 64 bit 32 bits of ram windows 10 pro 64 bit os. sound card Antelope ZenQ guitars Ibanez 2202a 1968 les Paul Custom and Cavin ae 185 Guitar boss Gt-100,GT1000 pedal Yamaha HS8 studio monitors
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I know what you are saying, Noel. And I understand how if I am not overly fond of a given style of a submission here, that it sometimes can be tough for me to listen all the way through, or to comment. I listen to maybe 90% more songs posted here, than I decide to offer up an opinion on. So, although this song hasn't generated much feedback here, I am nonetheless very pleased with how this recording came out.
I will increase the volume of the vocals.
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I would go the other way -- try lowering the level of the backing tracks first. Real nice energy rise in the chorus (with the extra vocals helping, too). Overall it's pretty good. At 6:42 it is way too long -- but I know that is super subjective. A song should be as long as it has to be. For me, just under 4 minutes is where my attention started to waver. A song that I like a lot is Mrs. Potter Lullaby and it comes in at 7:45 so I am not morally opposed to longer tunes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xdt58T366xw
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Damn. I just got through raising the vocals I will see if it helps or hurts later on. I've got three likes on Soundcloud and that is 3 more than just about every other song I have posted there. I agree it's a long song, but I also agree whole-heartedly that a song should be as long as need be.
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Sounds good. Nice job on this.
Bob
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Thank you, Bob. Although I probably don't mention it often enough, much credit must be given to PG Music for my recordings, and especially in regard to this particular song. BIAB, has literally brought it to life.
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Nice song RG. I have a couple of speakers set up, as well as different headphones. On some of them, your vocals were too far back to where I couldn't understand all the words. On other speakers/headphones, they sounded fine. So I guess that explains some of the comments. But I did enjoy the song.
Thanks for sharing it.
Steve
Steve Young Music"In order to compose, all you need to do is remember a tune that nobody else has thought of." - Robert Schumann
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Thanks for listening, Steve. When Noel suggested I raise the volume by 1 or 2 db, I went with 2, then when Kemmrich commented I cut them back by 1. So I compromised I had no problem hearing the vocals clearly and loudly enough to start with, so the 1db will do for me.
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Sorry, just got around to this one and as I see most has already been said.
You did an overall good job with this song but with this said I too did not get all the words especially towards the ending. And also (for me anyway) any song over 3.5 minutes had really be a blockbuster or have me locked into the story line biting my nails. . . but I have been told I may have an attention span issue.
I have been listening to your songs on soundcloud since you joined the forum and I can see great advances from your first to where you are now.
Again IMHO, overall this was a very good effort.
Later,
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I appreciate your time, Danny.
Well, I trial run my songs here and if they flop miserably, then I pull them down from public view and ask myself what I need to do better. Usually, it's my singing, which is lacking, next it is my production. I've also been known to private message someone here and seek their advice as well. So if my songs get better as I go, then this forum is the reason why. The only thing I can say that I have learned on my own as far as recording a song goes, is that I can't trust my own ears.
I will have a new look at the vocal.
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RG,
As has been said... your productions are gettin' better all the time. The raw energy in both the instrumentation and the vocal is something few of us can achieve. It reminds of of early Stones. Certainly do not want to tell you "how to do your thing", but I think you could eliminate a lot of "pauses" that happen in this song, without it changing much at all, and make it flow better... and therefore keep your listener attached more easily.
Just my opinion, of course. Interseting lyrics, as always...
floyd
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Hmm. Will consider your suggestions, floyd, as always
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I had a couple listens to the song, and I think the other posters have identified both the strengths and weaknesses of the song.
I'm certainly not an expert, but I'll suggest that the key to mixing is clarity: making sure that the important stuff isn't buried. Here's an approach that you might consider.
First, turn the faders on all the tracks down to zero.
Choose a section to start with - usually the loudest is the trickiest, so you might start with that.
Pick the most important track. When in doubt, choose the vocals. Turn the volume up until it's at a good point.
Now, pick the next most important track. Again, bring the fader on that track up until it's loud enough. Since it's not as important as the prior track, make sure that it's quieter than the prior track(s).
That's the key idea: as wonderful as a particular track is, it should support the tracks above it. If it's ever competing, you need to fix it.
Now, listen though the section with the track you've added, and look for places where you can cut the instrument. It may be a lovely fingerpicked guitar, but in terms of the mix, perhaps having it only play at the spaces between the lyrics might make sense. So everywhere else, remove it.
As you add things, don't turn any track up - turn other tracks down, or where there are two things fighting, figure out which is most important, and turn down (or off) the less important track.
Continue to the next track, always asking the question: does this instrument really need to be playing during this section? Where can it be dropped and not make a difference?
Each added track should be less prominent than the prior.
Less is always more.
There's obviously a lot more to mixing than that, but that single idea of making sure that more important tracks never get masked will get you a lot closer to a clear mix.
-- David Cuny My virtual singer development blogVocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?BiaB 2025 | Windows 11 | Reaper | Way too many VSTis.
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I will copy your suggestions and put them in my notes folder from this forum, which resides on my desktop.
Thanks, David, for the listen.
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David. I also appreciate your mixing tips and would be interested to know, generally, what order you would go in if, say, you had vocals, lead guitar, rhythm guitar, rhythm piano, bass and drums (in a very simple case)
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It's a bit long BUT the emotion of the song and your "indie" sound drew me in. I listen to lots of different genres of music. I like that this is so uniquely you. Not perfect but doesn't necessarily have to be. Hot indie music today is intentionally not recorded perfectly going more for a genuine and sometimes quirky raw feel. So while I agree that you are improving in your productions - the song - this one is a good universal one - has much to do with it as well. I would encourage you to press on improving your productions and songs but with an ear to keeping that cool natural indie edginess and feel you have. 
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Yesiree, edgy is me, usually.. Till I zap me daily Zanex anyway Trust me when I say, that anything I record is 'unintentionally' not recorded perfectly. It's just that I am not going to let my lack of perfectness stop me from being heard. I try to do everything as best I can with what I equipment and ability I have, of course, then I accept my imperfections, by choosing to look at them more as distinctions. Thanks, Josie
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Quote:
David. I also appreciate your mixing tips and would be interested to know, generally, what order you would go in if, say, you had vocals, lead guitar, rhythm guitar, rhythm piano, bass and drums (in a very simple case)
I'm really not an expert at this, in any sense. I have read quite a bit (and played around with it), so I guess I can pretend to be one on the internet!
The suggestion that I gave came from one of the last books I'd read on mixing. A "pro" can wing it a lot more, but for a beginner, the author (sorry, I forget the book title) suggested this as a good approach that gives consistent results. I tried it myself, and was pleased with the results.
One thing I'm not sure I communicated well is that you mix in sections, so each section may get a different treatment. The author suggested was starting with the loudest section, because most of the sections of that type (verse, chorus) will be mixed similarly. To achieve contrast, you follow the general plan of the "loud" section, but remove tracks to make that section quieter. It's an easy way to get continuity and contrast.
As for the order you do the tracks, it really depends on the style, and what you're trying to achieve. I'd suggest that vocals should always be most important, because that's what most songs are about. The author (of the book that I still can't remember the title of) said there isn't any set order of instruments, because each song is different.
However... Most pros suggest using reference tracks - advice I need to start follow myself! Critical listening to other people's mixes will bring a lot more awareness to what you're doing.
But when in doubt, always trust your ears. That's the key to anything musical.
Sorry I can't be more helpful, but if anyone else has good suggestions about what's worked for them, feel free to chime in!
-- David Cuny My virtual singer development blogVocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?BiaB 2025 | Windows 11 | Reaper | Way too many VSTis.
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We've added many major new features to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®, including advanced AI tools like the amazing BB Stem Splitter and AI Lyrics Generator, as well as VST3 plugin support, and Equalize Temp. Plus, there’s a new one-stop MIDI Patches Picker with over 1,100 MIDI patches to choose from, all neatly categorized by GM numbers. The MultiPicker Library is enhanced with tabs for the SongPicker, MIDI Patch Picker, Chord Builder, AI Lyrics Generator, and Song Titles Browser, and the tabs are organized into logical groups. The Audiophile Edition is enhanced with FLAC files , which are 60% smaller than AIFF files while maintaining identical audio quality, and now ships on a fast 1TB SSD, and much more!
Check out all the new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® here:
Purchase your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac during our special to save up to 50% off your upgrade purchase and receive a FREE BONUS PAK of amazing new Add-ons. These include the 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK, Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana, Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes, MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano, Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7, Playable RealTracks Set 4, RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark, and more!
Upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and add 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and 20 RealStyles, FLAC Files for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks, Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster, MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster, Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8, and RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe.
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs!
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