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So if ya put out a commercial release and had RealTracks on some of the parts, who would you credit on the CD jacket?
WSS
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I would probably also credit PGMusic, if anything just out of principle and giving credit where credit is due. Of course, now that we know who did each of the RealTracks (since their bios are posted), if we credit them as playing that solo, are they going to want a huge cut of our highly successful CD sales? 
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA BB2025/UMC404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com
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Quote:
...are they going to want a huge cut of our highly successful CD sales?
That's a good one! LOL!!!!!!!! I am sorry, I just have to laugh!!! LOL!!!!!!!
Cheers, Mike My Music * Asus ROG Strix G15CF 32 GB DDR4 4TB HDD + 1 TB SSD NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 8GB Win 11 AKAI EIE PRO Sound Interface. BIAB/RB 2024 UltraPak Build - Latest
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You should not put credits. This situation is similar to hiring live persons as paid session guitarists who have signed a release form that get paid as workers but not as copyright owners (no right to future royalties). Be sure about the legal aspect of giving credits. Dont give credit when credit is not due. Who composed Yesterday? And yet why does Lennon get 1/2 of profits in the next 100 years? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yesterday_(song)
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Journeyman
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OP
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Quote:
You should not put credits.
This situation is similar to hiring live persons as paid session guitarists who have signed a release form that get paid as workers but not as copyright owners (no right to future royalties). Be sure about the legal aspect of giving credits.
Dont give credit when credit is not due.
Who composed Yesterday? And yet why does Lennon get 1/2 of profits in the next 100 years?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yesterday_(song)
Well that isn't what I'm talking about, though it's an interesting subject for another thread. 
That's publishing and you can set it up any way you want to. One can purchase a song an put one's own name under it.
(I also assume that I've paid for the rights to use the content here)
I just mean that if I have a friend play say mandolin or fiddle I put his name in the credits.
Someone said we DO know the names of the musicians who played the real tracks correct?
Where's that list?
Just asking if it'd be appropriate to put them on the musicians list.
WSS
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PG Music Staff
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Hi Steve,
There isn't a **need** to put any credit for using RealTracks on your recordings.
If you **want to** add credits, that would be fine. I would stick to saying "Band-in-a-Box" or "RealTracks", you shouldn't menion artist names, since that might be confusing..
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
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Apprentice
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If I ever get my CD out with some Real Tracks, I'm going to credit "The Hog Time Pickers". If someone asks who they are, I'll let them know it's BIAB.
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Hogtime,
Are you using RealTrax on the Soundclick page?
WSS
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Apprentice
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Sorry for the delayed response.
I'm only using Real Drums on my last song "Thirty More Miles". The organ is MIDI BIAB. Several of my other songs used MIDI bass from BIAB. They were all done before Real Tracks/Drums became available.
Got a new one in the works that will use Real pedal steel/fiddle/drums. Hopefully a second one using the Real bluegrass band.
Thanks for listening,
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Just stumbled into this thread. I see Peter says Quote:
you shouldn't mention artist names, since that might be confusing..
Peter: I wonder if you could expand your explanation a little. I am putting out a CD this month for the RPM Challenge and I was planning on giving "named" credit to the various RealTrack players. However, based on what you said here, that doesn't seem to be a good idea. Just would like to know why.
Thanks,
Kevin
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Quote:
However, based on what you said here, that doesn't seem to be a good idea. Just would like to know why.
My guess would be that it's because they really didn't play on your song. You merely took pre-recorded snippets (effectively) and then using BIAB, pitch-shifted them and time stretched them and sliced and diced them until you had something that worked for you. But if you asked the original player if they played that, I think the answer would be an emphatic "NO!", because they didn't record your song; they just recorded various riffs.
If you want to give attribution, maybe you could say something like "in the style of...". Just a thought.
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA BB2025/UMC404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com
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I agree with jford.
Don't give name credit to automatically generated parts.
If anything, name Band in a Box 2009 and RealTracks and let it go at that.
--Mac
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Good explanation jford -- makes sense to me. Thanks for chiming in Mac.
Kevin
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It could even be seen as trying to increase sales by trading on the reputations of those artists - not saying this is what you're doing, on the contrary, I think you're only trying to give credit where you feel it's due, but not everyone will see it that way...
--=-- My credo: If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing - just ask my missus, she'll tell ya  --=--You're only paranoid if you're wrong!
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WSS,
Dont court trouble where it is not necessary.
The moment you credit these people in your CD, their great grandchildren can demand retroactive royalties from you.
I know you are trying to be generous that better safe than sorry.
James Blunt's You're Beautiful has been subject of a multi million suit from this best friend.
In fact, the legal advice is that for real live players for hire studio musicians, if you don't want them to claim royalty, you must let them sign the release form before they have performed a SINGLE chord or note in your studio.
Otherwise, if you let them sign it 3 minutes after they have started strumming, you are already bound to give them royalty.
So, dont credit where it is not legally required.
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copyright & general news
6 April 2006
james blunt in royalty dispute
Chart topping popstar James Blunt has had his royalties frozen after his producer claimed he co-wrote six songs on his album Back to Bedlam.
Lukas Burton claims he helped Blunt write several of his hits, including the number one ballad You’re Beautiful. So far he has not received any of the royalties from the album which has sold over 2 million copies in the UK and was the first British Album to reach number one in the American charts in nine years.
The case has gone to court, where it will be decided whether Burton has a valid claim.
Blunt's publicist said,
“When a record is this massive, everyone wants to claim credit for its success.”
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Must I pay former band members when I solo-produce a cowritten song? QUESTION: I was in a band with a friend. We cowrote three songs together and had them copyrighted. Since then, we broke up. I am now going to put our songs on my CD, and she says I will owe her money for the songs when I sell the CDs. Also, she says that I can't modify the songs now. Is that true? ANSWER: Your friend is right that the songwriters are entitled to payment when the song is reproduced on compact disc. The legal rate in 2007 is 9.1 cents per song per CD. For example, if one song is reproduced on 1,000 CDs, the songwriters are owed $91. This money must be paid by the person or business that is paying for the manufacture of the CDs. The songwriters can also agree to a lower rate or they can agree to forego the payments for a period of time. The rate can be higher for extremely long songs. For the current rates, check the official royalty rates at the U.S. Copyright Office at www.copyright.gov/carp/m200a.html.However, your friend is wrong about modifying the song. Any cowriter can revise the song -- creating what is known as a derivative work. Again, the other cowriters must be reimbursed for the money that the song earns. There is another possible hitch in your case: All songwriters must consent to the first release of the song to the public. If it has already been released to the public on a tape or CD, this will not be an issue and you can release it without your friend's consent. But if this is the first appearance of the song in the marketplace, you will need your friend's permission -- and it does not sound as if she is in an agreeable mood these days.
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Releasing Your Own Record:
A Legal Checklist
Legal Ease
For artists who are releasing their own record for the first time, without the involvement or assistance of a label, the process can be a little intimidating. It can be easy to miss some key legal details in the process.
Here, therefore, is a very basic checklist of issues to be considered when releasing a record. Bear in mind, though, that your own particular circumstances may dictate that you take certain steps that are different from, or in addition to, the various steps mentioned below. Also, it has been necessary to greatly oversimplify some of the issues discussed below due to space limitations.
1) Agreement Between Members of Group. If it is a group (as opposed to a solo artist) releasing the record, and if the group has not already formalized its relationship by way of a partnership agreement, incorporation, or limited liability company ("LLC"), there should at least be a clear and simple written agreement among the group members about how the finances of the recording project will be handled. Also, it is always a good idea to deal with the issue of the ownership of the group's name as early in the group's career as possible.
2) Investors. If there are investors involved, documents will need to be prepared in order to comply with certain Federal and State securities laws. Be especially careful here.
3) Distribution and Promotion Strategy. Think ahead about how the record will be distributed, advertised, and promoted, and how much money will be needed to effectively market the record. Sometimes all (or almost all) of the budget for a project is spent on recording and manufacturing costs, and there is little or no money left to effectively advertise or promote the record. This, of course, is not really a legal issue but is such a common (and often fatal) problem that I feel obliged to mention it here.
4) Mechanical Licenses. For any cover songs appearing on the record, you must obtain a mechanical license from the owner of the song (i.e., the song's publisher), authorizing the song to be recorded and providing for the payment of mechanical royalties. In many cases this license can be obtained from The Harry Fox Agency (212/ 370-5330). Allow six to eight weeks for this process.
For songs not licensable through Harry Fox, you must contact the publisher directly. Usually the easiest way to do so is to obtain the publisher's contact info from the "song indexing" departments at ASCAP and BMI.
5) Sampling Clearances. If you are including any samples on your record, you need to obtain sample clearances from the publisher of the musical composition being sampled AND, separately, the record label that owns the master being sampled. Do this as early as possible, as there will be some instances in which either the publisher or label will not be willing to issue a license, or the licensing fee which they require may not be affordable.
Also, some duplicators will require you to sign a form stating that either you have not used any samples, or that if you have done so, you have obtained all necessary clearances. If there is any obvious sampling done, the duplicator may require you to show them the clearance documentation.
6) "Work for Hire" Agreements. For any session people, engineers, etc. whom you are hiring, it is wise to have them sign a short and simple "work for hire" agreement, to preclude any possible future claims by them that they are owed royalties or that they have ownership rights in the masters. Do this BEFORE you go into the studio.
7) Producer Agreement. If you are using an outside producer, there needs to be a producer agreement signed, defining (among other things) how the various costs of the recording sessions will be handled, what advances (if any) will be paid to the producer, and what producer royalties will be paid to the producer. Just as in the case of the Work for Hire agreements mentioned above, do this BEFORE you go into the studio.
8) Production Credits. Make sure that the production credits listed in the liner notes--for session people, producers, and others--conform to any contractual requirements. For example, the producer agreement will often be very specific about how the producer's credits are to be listed. For musicians performing on the record who are signed to a label, they will normally need to be credited as appearing "Courtesy Of" their label.
9) Liability Releases/Permission Forms. You need to consider the possible necessity of getting a liability release or permission form signed in any of the following scenarios: (a) If a photograph and/or artistic image of an individual outside the group is included in the artwork; (b) If any of the artwork which you are going to use is owned by any third party; or (c) If any logos or trademarks owned by third parties appear in your artwork. There can be some tricky legal issues in this area, so be very careful here.
10) Copyright Notices for Songs. Be sure that the liner notes contain the correct copyright notices for all of the songs on the record, i.e., both for your original songs and any cover songs that you are using. Information about copyright notices can be obtained here. Also, make sure that the song credits correctly state for each song the name of the song's publisher and the publisher's performing rights society (i.e., ASCAP, BMI, etc.).
A non-legal sidenote: At the same time you are working on the artwork and the copyright notices, etc., doublecheck to make sure that your artwork meets all technical specs of whoever will be printing the artwork. Also, if you will be distributing the record through a record distributor, make sure that your artwork conforms to the distributor's specs.
11) Copyrighting Your Original Material. Certain copyright applications need to be filed promptly for your recordings and for your own original songs. Use "Form SR" for copyrighting the masters of the songs, "Form PA" for each of your original songs on the record, and "Form VA" for the artwork (if you own the artwork and want to copyright it). You can download the copyright application forms from the Copyright Office's website.
In some instances, it is possible to file an SR form to cover both the musical composition and your particular recording of that musical composition. The instructions for Form SR discuss when and how you can do this.
12) Registering Your Original Songs with BMI/ASCAP. Assuming that the record contains one or more songs that you have written, and assuming that you are affiliated with ASCAP or BMI, or are in the course of becoming affiliated, you will need to file "title registration" forms for each of your original songs appearing on the record. This will enable your rights society (i.e., ASCAP or BMI) to monitor any airplay of your material.
13) Trademark Notices/Registrations. Be very sure that you have the legal right to use the group name and label name which you have chosen, and consider the advantages of filing trademark applications for those names. Also, make sure that your liner notes contain a proper trademark notice for the name of your group, and (if applicable) the name of your label. Information about trademark notices can be obtained at the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office web site.
14) Obtaining A Bar Code. For information about bar codes, visit the Uniform Code Council website, or call the Uniform Code Council at (937) 435-3870 (Dayton, Ohio). Also, many CD duplicators will, as part of their service and at no additional charge, provide you with a bar code for your record. Ask about this when getting quotes from duplicators. Also, for the reason mentioned in the next paragraph below, you may want to make sure that any bar code you obtain from a duplicator will identify your particular record, and not someone else's record.
15) Registering with SoundScan. If you anticipate significant sales and want to come to the attention of record labels, it's a good idea to register your record with SoundScan, a private company. SoundScan compiles record sales data based on the scanning of bar codes from sales at retail stores and then sells that information to its subscribers, which include all of the major record companies.You can obtain a SoundScan application form from DiscMakers.
If you plan on submitting a SoundScan application, be sure that you obtain a bar code specifically for your own record. If, instead, you "borrow" someone else's barcode (or the duplicator's general barcode), your sales will be credited to them and not to you.
CONCLUSION
Hopefully, the above checklist will help to reduce, at least slightly, some of the stress and strain of putting out your own records. The key, of course, is to think ahead as much as possible. Some of the steps mentioned above, such as obtaining sampling clearances and mechanical licenses, can take some time and a lack of planning can unnecessarily increase your costs and/or delay the release date.
Also, make sure that you have all of your "ducks in a row" before you schedule any record release event. It's not an enjoyable experience to be locked into a record release date, only to find out at the last minute that you aren't going to be receiving your CDs from the duplicator by the time of the event or that there are legal or technical problems with either the CD or the CD artwork.
By thinking ahead, the odds are much better that your record release will proceed smoothly and that, after the record release, you will be able to spend your time and budget effectively promoting the record, rather than having to spend time doing repair damage.
Good luck!
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Journeyman
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Asian Sun.
I think you're missing my point.
It has been pretty much answered BUT this isn't a writing credit I'm talking about.
I play and sing almost all the parts on my recodings, and I take credit for that.
If a buddy plays fiddle or mandolin I wouldn't say I did it.
I write most of the songs and the ones I don't write I credit to the writers and pay the HFA.
I've never used a Realtrack yet and would probably play the part myself.
If I kept the Realtrack I realize I'm under no obligation to pay royalty but I wouldn't want to pretend I played that part.
Copyright and publishing are a completely different issue and would make a great thread.
WSS
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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Mac 2025 Special Upgrade Offers Extended Until August 15th!
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We’ve added new RealTracks across bro country, Americana, praise & worship, vintage country, and songwriter piano. Highlights include Brent Mason (electric guitar), Eddie Bayers (drums), Doug Jernigan (pedal steel), John Jarvis (piano), Glen Duncan (banjo, mandolin & fiddle), Mike Harrison (electric bass) and more—offering everything from modern sounds to heartfelt Americana styles
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- Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
- Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano
- Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7
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- RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark
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- 128 GM MIDI Patch Audio Demos.
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- Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
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- RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®!
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Windows!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
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