|
Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
|
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 8
Newbie
|
OP
Newbie
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 8 |
Using 2012.5
For some time Concert Pitch Adjust hasn't worked at all on RealTracks but does work for MIDI tracks.
Just updated to build 65 hoping for a fix but no luck.
The worst are styles with mixed Real & MIDI tracks – part transposes and part doesn't.
Is this a known bug? A problem with BIAB MIDI settings or RealTracks files?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 19,839
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 19,839 |
Hi zs,
My experience is that all the Realtracks are recorded at concert pitch and play back at concert pitch.
When you say "part transposes and part doesn't", I'm not quite sure what you mean. Are you saying that if you transpose a song from C to Eb (for example), the midi transposes but the Realtracks do not? If that is what you mean, then this is normal behaviour (at least for the PC version of the program). Realtracks need to be regenerated after a transposition because they are audio and not midi files.
Hope this helps,
Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2025
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
|
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 8
Newbie
|
|
OP
Newbie
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 8 |
Yes, that would be the MIDI transposes and the RealTracks do not - which of course renders it totally useless.
This shouldn't be "normal" behavior. It is a bug.
If I can type in another RealTrack chord a minor 3rd higher and BIAB has no problem playing that new chord up a m3,
then BIAB can give a "Concert Pitch Adjust" m3 higher automatically as well.
This is necessary to play along with BIAB on alto saxophone (or other transposing instruments) while reading chord names in the proper key for the instrument.
After all, changing the key works fine for RealTracks using the drop down menu for key signatures.
Also, Concert Pitch Adjust – depending on how they implemented it – doesn't necessarily need to do anything at all to audio files.
It's the text displayed on screen that needs to change.
i.e. I tell BIAB concert pitch adjust -9 or +3 (same change: down a M6 or up m3 - just a different octave), and the UI tells the audio rendering engine that I really asked for Eb7 instead of the C7 that I see on screen.
This is a major bug for those of us using BIAB for practicing or teaching of transposing instruments.
I can't require (or even recommend) those students to to buy BIAB as it stands now.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 19,839
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 19,839 |
Hi zs,
With every respect for your opinion, I'd just like mention that while transposing is very easy to achieve with midi because midi is simply alpha-numeric data (it doesn't involve actual sounds - they come later when a synth interprets the midi data), Realtracks are audio and this restricts what can be accomplished with them.
I don't know if you have ever tried adjusting the pitch of an audio file in a DAW but once the pitch changes more than one to two semitones, audio artifacts become very noticeable and interfere significantly with the quality of the sound. You can easily test this in Realband by creating a Realtrack track and then changing its pitch a third (say).
With Realtracks, the artists have recorded a number of patterns in different keys. When a user enters chords into BIAB, the program identifies which of these patterns are appropriate to the key signature being used. This means that the audio files are not pitch-shifted more than their audio integrity allows them to be shifted. That's why when a song has it's key changed and is regenerated, the Realtrack patterns often sound slightly different from what was being played before.
When a chord that's a 3rd higher is entered into BIAB, the program will regenerate the whole song. It doesn't simply modify the notes in the bar that had the chord changed.
It is not a bug that midi transposes and Realtracks do not. It is simply that the two different types of sound creation require different techniques to make them work effectively.
Kind regards,
Noel
Last edited by Noel96; 10/21/13 04:33 AM. Reason: still finding typos
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2025
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
|
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 8
Newbie
|
|
OP
Newbie
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 8 |
Hi Noel,
I'm well aware of the difference between short sampled MIDI sounds and full length audio files as I formerly did software testing for a music synth company.
I've also recorded and released a fair amount of music using MOTU's Digital Performer and Apple's Logic Pro.
I also regularly use Transcribe! software to pitch shift audio files when transcribing or simply practicing a song in various keys.
And yes, I'm quite familiar with the artifact issues of big changes – especially with audio that has a lot of transients.
As you mentioned, BIAB RealTracks are recorded in multiple keys to allow the user to create songs in all 12 key centers.
Therefore, the required audio files already exist – nothing needs to be pitch shifted.
You're making a mistake in thinking that audio files would need to be changed in order to have the displayed key be different from the actual sounding audio key.
All that needs to be changed are the pixels on the computer screen creating the chord name graphics.
That's what <Concert Pitch Adjust> should be doing – it does not have to change any audio files by even a microtone, (let alone a minor third or maximum a tritone).
I thought I made it quite clear in my previous post that when I type in C7 (for example), with Concert Pitch Adjust set to either +3 or -9, BIAB should load the appropriate audio files for Eb7 – which as you yourself noted, already exist – absolutely NO need for any extraordinary pitch shifting at all.
Take any RealTracks style, create a song in the key of C and play it back.
Then select transpose by any of the several methods.
Listen to the new key – no problem at all. All the required audio files are loaded appropriately and play back as expected.
Please understand that the issue is how BIAB draws chord names on the screen when in Concert Pitch Adjust mode.
(And, of course, how BIAB interprets your chord name input. Either way you look at it, it's a screen pixel issue – NOT audio.)
This is most definitely a serious but fixable UI bug that has nothing to do with pitch shifting audio files.
Perhaps one of the pgmusic developers could respond.
(All my posts are regarding the Macintosh version)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
|
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 335
Journeyman
|
|
Journeyman
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 335 |
I don't get why you just don't do everything with the Visual Transpose on? So if you are playing an Eb instrument, you can type all the chords and stuff in as you see it for an Eb instrument, but the program will still play everything in the proper keys.
Seems like maybe the Concert Pitch Adjust thing has been obsoleted by the visual transpose (button in the main screen next to SongForm).
Musician, Polymath, Google Jedi, Apple Master, Windows Wrangler and Digital Wizard. High ratings in Nerd-fu & Geek-fu.
M1 Mac Mini, MacBook Pro Touchbar 15", Intel 27" iMac, M1 Mac Mini
https://musician.social/@ericdano
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
|
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 335
Journeyman
|
|
Journeyman
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 335 |
It's the text displayed on screen that needs to change.
i.e. I tell BIAB concert pitch adjust -9 or +3 (same change: down a M6 or up m3 - just a different octave), and the UI tells the audio rendering engine that I really asked for Eb7 instead of the C7 that I see on screen.
This is a major bug for those of us using BIAB for practicing or teaching of transposing instruments.
I can't require (or even recommend) those students to to buy BIAB as it stands now. Again, use the Visual Transpose. I don't think the Concert Pitch Adjust thing is something that anyone uses anymore. It think it is left over from BEFORE they put in the Concert Pitch Adjust, and probably should be removed as it doesn't really have a use anymore.
Musician, Polymath, Google Jedi, Apple Master, Windows Wrangler and Digital Wizard. High ratings in Nerd-fu & Geek-fu.
M1 Mac Mini, MacBook Pro Touchbar 15", Intel 27" iMac, M1 Mac Mini
https://musician.social/@ericdano
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
|
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 8
Newbie
|
|
OP
Newbie
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 8 |
Thanks Eric,
I never knew about that option as I've never explored the Lead Sheet window.
What version are you using? I could only find it by navigating to the Lead Sheet window, then clicking on the Opt. button, then click on Notation Options button, then clicking on the Transpose drop down menu. (It's still not titled "Visual Transpose" though.)
I moused over the 50+ buttons on the main screen to see the tool tip explanations but could find no mention of either "Visual Transpose" or "SongForm."
I'm using 2012.5 build 65 for Mac OS.
Are you on 2013 or Windows version?
This feature would do the trick (haven't tested playback yet) but 4 levels deep through a menu/window hierarchy is a pain. I have students on concert pitch, Eb and Bb so setting it and forgetting it is not an option. I need to be able to quickly change frequently.
If it requires version 2013 to get direct "Visual Transpose" in one click I may just jump ship and use iReal Pro for this type of practice file.
(All my posts are regarding the Macintosh version)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
|
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 335
Journeyman
|
|
Journeyman
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 335 |
Musician, Polymath, Google Jedi, Apple Master, Windows Wrangler and Digital Wizard. High ratings in Nerd-fu & Geek-fu.
M1 Mac Mini, MacBook Pro Touchbar 15", Intel 27" iMac, M1 Mac Mini
https://musician.social/@ericdano
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
New RealTracks Released with Band-in-a-Box 2025!
We’ve expanded the Band-in-a-Box® RealTracks library with 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 449-467) across Jazz, Blues, Funk, World, Pop, Rock, Country, Americana, and Praise & Worship—featuring your most requested styles!
Jazz, Blues & World (Sets 449–455):
These RealTracks includes “Soul Jazz” with Neil Swainson (bass), Mike Clark (drums), Charles Treadway (organ), Miles Black (piano), and Brent Mason (guitar). Enjoy “Requested ’60s” jazz, classic acoustic blues with Colin Linden, and more of our popular 2-handed piano soloing. Plus, a RealTracks first—Tango with bandoneon, recorded in Argentina!
Rock & Pop (Sets 456–461):
This collection includes Disco, slap bass ‘70s/‘80s pop, modern and ‘80s metal with Andy Wood, and a unique “Songwriter Potpourri” featuring Chinese folk instruments, piano, banjo, and more. You’ll also find a muted electric guitar style (a RealTracks first!) and “Producer Layered Guitar” styles for slick "produced" sound.
Country, Americana & Praise (Sets 462–467):
We’ve added new RealTracks across bro country, Americana, praise & worship, vintage country, and songwriter piano. Highlights include Brent Mason (electric guitar), Eddie Bayers (drums), Doug Jernigan (pedal steel), John Jarvis (piano), Glen Duncan (banjo, mandolin & fiddle), Mike Harrison (electric bass) and more—offering everything from modern sounds to heartfelt Americana styles
Check out all the 202 New RealTracks (in sets 456-467)
And, if you are looking for more, the 2025 49-PAK (for $49) includes an additional 20 RealTracks with exciting new sounds and genre-spanning styles. Enjoy RealTracks firsts like Chinese instruments (guzheng & dizi), the bandoneon in an authentic Argentine tango trio, and the classic “tic-tac” baritone guitar for vintage country.
You’ll also get slick ’80s metal guitar from Andy Wood, modern metal with guitarist Nico Santora, bass player Nick Schendzielos, and drummer Aaron Stechauner, more praise & worship, indie-folk, modern/bro country with Brent Mason, and “Songwriter Americana” with Johnny Hiland.
Plus, enjoy user-requested styles like Soul Jazz RealDrums, fast Celtic Strathspey guitar, and Chill Hop piano & drums!
The 2025 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2025 49-PAK!
Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Mac!
With your version 2025 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Or upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 33 new RealTracks and 65+ new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 29 new RealTracks and 45+ new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 20 new RealStyles.
- Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
- Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano
- Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7
- Playable RealTracks Set 4
- RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark
- SynthMaster Sounds and Styles (with audio demos)
- 128 GM MIDI Patch Audio Demos.
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyles,
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
- Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster
- Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8
- RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®!
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Windows!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: VST3 Plugin Support
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® now includes support for VST3 plugins, alongside VST and AU. Use them with MIDI or audio tracks for even more creative possibilities in your music production.
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Macs®: VST3 Plugin Support
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: Using VST3 Plugins
Join the conversation on our forum.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums58
Topics84,392
Posts778,629
Members39,644
| |
Most Online25,754
Jan 24th, 2025
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean