PG Music Home Forums PG Music Product Forums Band-in-a-Box for Windows I've hit the wall

There are a lot of songs on the web that were created using these built-in styles. Why keep them? So you can still play those files. You may not need them, but others do. If you don't use styles, you can just move them out of the way yourself and they should disappear from the style picker. But I don't think PGMusic should remove any old styles, since older songs are based on those styles.

Those styles are also great for creating newer one as well. Get to know the style creation tools. You can take parts from different styles and change parameters and build newer styles to suit you. Plus those older style many times work with different projects. Take a song generate the tracks, move to RB, go back generate more tracks using a slightly different style, load scrap to RB. Do it again. Delete the tracks you don't like, add RTs, RDs, Super midi tracks, play a couple tracks on the kazoo. add some looped content. Record a tapped pencil on the desk. These are just tools, and this system is tool rich.

Take an otherwise old style and change the tempo, key, and delete all but the bass and drums, ad RTs piano. Shake and stir till taste, next thing you know it is new.

Take an old style, generate, freeze the tracks, unfreeze the bass track, change styles, and generate that track. Freeze the bass, unfreeze the guitar, pick another style, generate that track, and freeze. Play ohh cool sound. Save that style with a new name like "mystylecool1"

That is why they are there.

Interesting thread for me. My project for 2014 is to convert a selected subset of Yamaha MO XS Performances (with all associated arpeggios) into BiaB styles, and leverage them to compose songs and lyrics (ala Noel96's facilitated Stolpe-driven lyric writing "curriculum").

I am thinking of BiaB as the tool to develop "modern day" songs and related styles - use the existing styles as one of my teachers to do that. Looks like a long learning curve given the day job, but - what the hey - it's not my day job, nice problem, very relaxing, and learning a lot along the way.

Can understand, however, a desire to have a comprehensive set of styles that are aligned with today's Billboard "Top 10" lists in the different genres.

I also can see the point OP is making but I think regardless of quality, I love the fact we have a large amount of styles. The style audition feature in BB 2014 is an absolute godsend! I myself was previously finding it hard to find a suitable genre/style for my songs, but this has helped me rediscover some missed gems! Midi based ones again as people have said are useful to get a "feel" or quick arrangement for a song. I have used many of the early midi styles, and even though I have to import them into a DAW and use VST's on them I don't mind, I actually LIKE being able to manipulate the midi, be it rhythm, note length, timing etc. It has been invaluable to me as I am good at creating songs but I am certainly no musician, but it cuts down the time it takes to say lay a bass track down, or a starting point for me to work from.

Creating a track may be "instant" with many of the band in a box styles, which still amazes me every time I use it (I have been wishing for a creative tool like this for over 25 years when I first started to write songs lol) but I actually like the fact I won't always find a "complete" style, and often find myself looking for a "different bassline" or a "cool guitar" variation from another style. It's good to have to mix it up a bit in my opinion!

As much as I love lots of things BIB offers, I am quite eclectic in the styles of songs I do, and although primarily soft rock/pop, I would like some "fresher" sounding styles. But overall I really do appreciate the variety offered.

I wouldn't want any of the styles to be discontinued. I think all that is needed, like we now have, is a good filter system and the audition button

Thanks gang!
First, I am glad that we are keeping the discussion in the realm of positive suggestions and ideas.

To respond with what I am looking for, the answer is, "I don't know." But, in the past that is what I loved about BIAB. Often, I would sit down and experiment and a mood would develop and I would take it from there. Perhaps I may be on my island by taking this approach. But, there is where the problem lies. I feel I have run the course of my favorite handful of styles i.e. Real Tracks. Thus, I began to venture out into the other byways within the thousands of styles that I have paid for.

To name each style would not only require me to reconstruct the many hours of sifting through the styles to find them. But, it would not serve a purpose because the problem is not found in a particular style.

Yes, I would agree the styles share one common denominator: they are the styles that deploy MIDI instruments. If the "actual arrangements" that is, the rhythmic patterns and accompanying instrumental tracks, were set to a contemporary fashion I can export them to my VSTs and Jamstix is one I use (that is for the poster that had mentioned Jamstix earlier.)

It was noted that "today's" sound may be tough to nail down. I agree. To the point about the "Atari" sound is where I agree that BIAB did have a "today" sound once; back in the Atari days perhaps (That was a funny reference from the poster that got me thinking of my old Atari's Asteroids) I believe there is a need to update these styles if you wish to continue to advertise the number of styles that is stated. And that is my whole point in a nutshell. If there are no longer any available resources to update these styles, then remove them and call BIAB what it is.

Real Tracks is a fine addition. The solos have really expanded my music outside the realm of a guitarist with a computer. However, I may hold on upgrading until something develops where there are more options made available even within the big three of Rock, Country and Jazz. I love the Jazz tracks. But, I would like to see more than just swing, or ballads with brushes. Give me some funk, fusion, and something with a driving feel. That is to answer the question of what styles I personally would like to see in the next update.

Based on the last few comments prior to this post, would jford, Robh, Motley Fool, and Mark Money have any songs in their repertoire where your suggestions are in action?
If you don't mind, I would like to learn more about what you speak of. Having a song with a little background as to what styles you used to create your new ones and such can perhaps serve to inspire me our of the rut I have been going through.
Worth a shot, if you don't mind to share.

Cheers!

RickeG:

I use BIAB similar to the way you do, listening to different Styles and progressions for inspiration. I have actually come to regard BIAB as a co-composer. Until now I have mainly worked with MIDI, but Real Drums are awfully seductive.

Like everyone else who has been here for a while, I began by using MIDI. I get a lot of mileage out of revoicing certain Styles, particularly Techno and New Age. Even with a basic GM wavetable synth I have gotten satisfactory results. What was originally programmed as a cheesy-sounding MIDI guitar may produce interesting results as a synth or pad. When I eventually port my standard MIDI files (SMFs) into Propellerhead Reason, the world's most badass DAW and soft synth, things begin to get interesting.

To progress beyond this point with BIAB one of a couple of things must happen. Either someone else must supply me with new Styles, or I've got to get busy in the Stylemaker. IMO, this is where the sorcery of BIAB lies. It's not especially difficult, just time consuming. (A third approach would be to dig in and get still more use out of existing Styles, but you feel that you have exhausted that.)

I've been begging for new Techno, New Age, and EDM Styles for years, but I've given up holding my breath. It's not that BIAB doesn't do these things well, it's just not where the interest of the creator and developers lies. Again, I can choose to do it myself. What a fascinating "problem" to have!

RG, I'm not trying to give you a solution here, just suggest some approaches that you may have not tried. You seem motivated to continue to work with BIAB, as do I. If you do decide to pursue some of these concepts, I hope that you will share your insight and results with us.

Richard

I think to label as Atari might be a tad unfair. As Richard is saying, midi is what you make of it. When I sit down and audition I start with a simple chord structure, when I like what I hear I then begin to try different styles, once I find one that is fairly close I start exploring generation, until it get a set of tracks I like good enough for a scratch track bed. Then come adding better synths like Kontack, Sampletank, jamstix, EzDrummer. Next I tinker with real tracks, and sometimes real drums. When that process is complete I take a deep listen for sections that need re generation. Add any tracks I want to try to play, add vocals, lead and backing.

Then the magic begins. Mixing. Using volume envelopes, FX, and such I drop instruments in and out to taste. Lastly I edit with melodyne, and also edit out unwanted sounds and such.

What I started with become very different in the end. The original style really changes. The right piano, maybe a guitar track from a completely different style.
I remember many years ago a band I played in used to play an old Fleetwood Mac song, well old now anyway. We changed the guitar tracks to a calypso style and altered the drum beat a bit to enhance that and I always thought that was out best tune at that time. Mixing and matching is the key here.

If we could just puck a style and go it would be to easy.

I offer an alternate choice. One I feel could add a breath of fresh air to older existing styles. Have a new feature in the next release with this change to bar settings....Make multiple style variations for existing styles in bar settings. Want to vary the piano up? Or maybe the guitar, just select a new variation. ( not a style change but a variation to existing style for that instrument) And save that variation as a sub style...

So what I am trying to get here is

Pick a style

Enter some chords

Go to bar settings

Each instrument has the ability to vary the style

Have a save feature to create that variation as a user created sub style

Increase the amount of sub styles that currently can be put in the song... Currently there is 4

I agree!

Why not put this on the wish list?

These are some great ideas. Thanks! It looks like I need to delve into the world of Style Maker and see what develops from there. It seems you all have gotten some additional miles out of MIDI doing it that way.

Bostonx, are you referring to tweaking a style within a measure? Anything that would allow the composer to work alongside our "co-composer" to develop new ideas I am interested in seeing developed.

As for Atari, I was referring to one of the posters having mentioned the sounds and it made me chuckle as that is what came to mind when I would listen to some of the current styles in BIAB that uses MIDI.

I certainly hope with the use of Style Maker I can begin to find the niche of desirable accompanying arrangements where I can begin writing again.

Lots of tools, and lots of fun, but also lots of work too!

This can already be done.You can pick and choose what RT you want for a part or mix and match midi styles. You can have the piano part from XYZ style and the bass part from TYK style.Make your own styles.Don't use styles.
When you have used the prog for 5 + years and are starting to understand all the features then you have the right be disappointed. I doubt you will be.
Sorry but I make close to $200 in tips playing tunes made with this software.They must sound good to someone.Sorry but I am a BIG fan.No malice intended.

Thanks John,
No harm intended. It is encouraging to know that once you have learned to manipulate the default styles in order to come up with your own results in a desirable arrangement.

That is my hope this weekend as I intend to view the tutorials on how to make a new style and see if I can have the same experience as you have.

Before having written my post, I was frustrated. That is why I needed the group here to point out anything I may have overlooked that may help me discover new ideas.

Thanks to all! Once I come up with something using this new technique for me, I will post it and get anyone's feedback on its freshness!