Chris Thile and Michael Daves playing a Tiny Desk” concert
Michael Daves gives the kind of redneck intensity to music that you would normally only see applied to Nascar, football, Duck Dynasty or bigfoot hunting.
Any Black church crowd would know where to clap, and it is entirely in SWing, not EVen feel.
Call it "redneck intensity" if you like, but I know where - and whom - that comes from.
Know why you often see black guys standin' around with their hands on their crotch?
it is because the white guys done STOLE everything else!
I do like their playing abilities, would love to jam with them, but for some reason they - and their audiences - don't seem to want me around, Bob. Sad.
spinning off on what Mac said, the thought occurred to me as I watched these two outstanding young bluegrass musicians ... it seems kind of strange that the banjo's origins are in Africa, but bluegrass as a genre is dominated by white musicians.
Having said that, this ol' Carolina boy is looking forward to Merlefest where a group of young 'uns from N. Carolina is bustin' that truism:
The world of music has always been too racially segregated and still is so for at least my entire lifetime.
Why there even has to be a "black bluegrass band" that has to emphasize that fact in their chosen name is one of those things that hurts my heart.
And that's not these kids' fault.
As to why the banjo is now predominantly a "white" person's instrument has its roots in the days of slavery when the drum was outlawed after the slave owners understood that the drum could be used for actual communication at a distance among Africans. Placing strings across the top of a drum head and inserting a bridge between the two has its roots on one of the "Goto" instruments of northern Africa, which also had movable frets. Here in the days of slavery, the black man could claim that his banjo was not a "drum" due to the strings on it. But that, too, was stolen from us and used by white "Mummers" in sheer derision and sorry mimic of us, complete with blackface makeup and long parades.
Once the white race takes something away from us like that, it is near impossible to interest our next generation in that thing. Which explains why we have Rap to contend with. Rap is headed in the same direction as all the rest. That's my prediction.
Just attemptin' to speak real truth to real power here.
The “redneck intensity” I referred to was aimed at Michael Daves and his look and style. He reminds me of some of the old timers I saw as a kid with the veins popping out on their neck as they reached for the high notes to get that “high lonesome sound”. I get a kick out of watching him.
As far as you not being welcome to jam because of your race, then I can only say you’ve encountered pea brained racists. They aren’t the norm on the acoustic music scene.
In the circle of musicians that I’ve played with, you would have been welcomed with open arms.
As to why the Carolina Chocolate Drops chose that name, you’d have to ask them. I checked on their web page and it gave the bands history but no clue to the name. My guess would be they wanted something memorable and humorous.
Merlefest always has a top notch line up, but it's gotten so big and I've gotten too old to drive that far to fight the crowds.
Since it's almost in your back yard, I'd highly recommend that you and your son check it out. I went the first several years and had a blast. It's grown exponentially every year since then.
Has not been my experience, Bob, and you KNOW I used to try to go out amongst 'em.
Only accepted up to a point, and that was only because I was the guy trying to make any inroads there. The only guy, of either race.
Some would let me jam with 'em, none was even remotely willing to hire, or even to consider such a thing, actually.
Many were sincerely skilled players, which at one point in my guitar playing life was very important to me, but there was always this invisible and often unspoken line which I could not/should not cross. I suppose that many of them thought that just my being there was proof of a nonproblem or the likes, that alone actually speaks volumes for itself.
I can only speak for myself, but I don’t base my opinion of someone on what color they are. They could be purple with lime green stripes but if they’ve got the chops and they’re a nice person, then they’re alright by me.
Merlefest always has a top notch line up, but it's gotten so big and I've gotten too old to drive that far to fight the crowds.
Since it's almost in your back yard, I'd highly recommend that you and your son check it out. I went the first several years and had a blast. It's grown exponentially every year since then.
Hard to believe, but in all the years I've lived in NC, I've never made it to ANY of the fiddlers conventions, Merlefest, Floydfest, Jameoke, etc etc
This year I finally decided to go. I don't like crowds.. but I like good music. If you ever decide to go again, you're welcome to stay at my home in order to save money on lodging.
as far as the Carolina Chocolate Drops name... to me that's just typical N Carolina tongue in cheek humor
as far as the idea of stealing anything... some things can't truly be owned by anybody, and music is one of them. Every culture borrowed from whatever came before them, then built on that from their culture's perspective. The next generation or culture borrows and changes it again.
Like every ideology, music is in a constant state of flux, and people of all kinds are involved in the change.
I could see those kids as token representations of something from the past.. but I prefer to see them as current speakers of the universal language... like musical prospectors, staking their claim to a sound that is uniquely theirs.
As far as being excluded from the club... that isn't just a racial thing... its the Montagues and Capulets... its the Hatfields and McCoys, its the Serbs and the Croats... Its the Republicans and the Democrats, the Catholics and the Protestants, The Sharks and the Jets, etc etc
As long as people focus on the things that make them different and not on the things that make them the same, opposition will make cooperation difficult if not impossible.
Opposition and cooperation are both two-way streets. Each of us can be part of the solution or part of the problem.
Hard to believe, but in all the years I've lived in NC, I've never made it to ANY of the fiddlers conventions, Merlefest, Floydfest, Jameoke, etc etc
This year I finally decided to go. I don't like crowds.. but I like good music. If you ever decide to go again, you're welcome to stay at my home in order to save money on lodging.
Pat,
I'm glad to hear that you're going to check out some of those festivals. The crowds are a pain but they're also a good indicator of the desire for acoustic music without all of the electronic doo dads.
You'll love Merlefest. I appreciate your generous offer. I may surprise you and take you up on it.
I can only speak for myself, but I don’t base my opinion of someone on what color they are. They could be purple with lime green stripes but if they’ve got the chops and they’re a nice person, then they’re alright by me.
And you and I wouldn't have the problem.
But you are one freethinker and basically good man out of the majority, many of whom may be good at heart, but are also either reluctant or perhaps afraid to jump in there and take sides when the few show their ignorance.
They do not pick sides, they do not do anything other than stand there and watch while I alone have to deal with the whatever foul thing that comes from from the few.
It am what it am, my friend. Don't shoot the messenger because you do not like the message.
as far as the idea of stealing anything... some things can't truly be owned by anybody, and music is one of them. Every culture borrowed from whatever came before them, then built on that from their culture's perspective. The next generation or culture borrows and changes it again.
The glaring problem inherent in that statement, Pat, is the harsh penalty paid by those who created and recorded new and different sounds - but could only SELL their recordings and performances to a customer base that represented some scant 16% of the overall population at best, of which an even smaller percentage was actually able to purchase and enjoy the recordings in the first place. Or even get radio airplay, which was reserved for the scant few "race" stations of the era.
Then a caucasion performer and band could record their version of pretty much the same tune - and enjoy all the financial benefit of it.
The history of American Music is rife with examples.
Rufus Payne was the brother behind Hank Williams.
Today, Rufus is buried in an unmarked grave.
He didn't fare much better as to living status but had to observe Hank's phenomenal success.
Or The Rooftop Singers, who had a huge hit with "Walk Right In" -- redone again by Dr. Hook -- I am constantly both amused and hurt by the number of Folk Music aficionados who do not even know the name of the man whom The Rooftop Singers lifted this great music from - and the trick used to do so was even more underhanded - they took the music from one of his songs and added basically his hooks and lyrics from ANOTHER of his great songs.
Gus Cannon performing his song:
What? You say that The Rooftop Singers made it a hit by composing their own musical hook with the 12-string there?
Not so fast, they got that offa the same guy, from another song:
*Was Mr. Cannon's reward for being the originator of this music commensurate with the earnings that the Rooftop Singers gleaned? Could he have moved to and lived in the same neighborhood as them? Did he?
The harsh and true answer is that he was supposed to be glad that these younger caucasion entertainers had "discovered" his music and popularized it. When it was already there to begin with.
Did you know that Eric actually got lost when recording his solo to "Crossroads" and has admitted that now? He got the beat turned around, couldn't find where the ONE was - and thus recorded the ONLY solo I've ever heard him do that was honestly paying homage to the backbeat. Again we see the situation where the same man's lyrics from one song were combined with the music from another here, Cream's version is a compilation of parts of 2 Johnson songs - "Crossroads Blues" and "Traveling Riverside Blues."
Quote:
The version on the album was not edited down, although the booklet for the Crossroads boxed set implies that it was. Eric Clapton didn't like to talk about the song and has said it was an inferior performance because the trio got the time disjointed a bit in Eric's third solo chorus - that is, the first chorus (instrumental "verse") of his second solo. So, he never really praised that performance. When pressed on the length and editing issues, he might say something along the vague lines of he supposed it was originally longer, because the Cream usually played it longer live. At the end of the song, Jack Bruce announces, "Eric Clapton, please," over Eric's saying, "Thank you" (both said simultaneously). Eric follows up by saying (probably turning toward Jack), "Kerfuffle." This is British English for "foul-up," referring to the time disjoint back in midsong.
Now, this is always about the time that one of my cauacasion acquaintances will interject something along the lines of, "Eric gave CREDIT to Robert Johnson on the album cover" or the likes. Wow, he gave a dead man "credit". Anybody ever take a look inside Clapton's guitar safe?
"Cro$$road$"
Quote:
On November 5, 1956, The Nat King Cole Show debuted on NBC. The variety program was the first of its kind hosted by an African-American, which created controversy at the time.[11] Beginning as a 15-minute pops show on Monday night, the program was expanded to a half hour in July 1957. Despite the efforts of NBC, as well as many of Cole's industry colleagues—many of whom, such as Ella Fitzgerald, Harry Belafonte, Frankie Laine, Mel Tormé, Peggy Lee, Eartha Kitt, and backing vocal group The Cheerleaders worked for industry scale (or even for no pay)[11] in order to help the show save money—The Nat King Cole Show was ultimately done in by lack of a national sponsorship.[11] Companies such as Rheingold Beer assumed regional sponsorship of the show, but a national sponsor never appeared.[11]
The last episode of The Nat King Cole Show aired December 17, 1957. Cole had survived for over a year, and it was he, not NBC, who ultimately decided to pull the plug on the show.[12] Commenting on the lack of sponsorship his show received, Cole quipped shortly after its demise, "Madison Avenue is afraid of the dark."[
There are literally so many examples of this musical prejudice/theft-after-the-fact that I could write a book.
I don't disagree with any of that Mac.
I was expanding on it, not denying it. The problem is more pervasive than race. In the final analysis, wherever two groups divide themselves over some perceived difference, the one with the most power will take advantage of the other group.
But its worth pointing out that the guys you mention as being the originator of the ideas... they got their ideas from somebody else too... how far back do we go to find the "originator" of the idea?
BTW, the lizard-mammal clip was a good way to make the point.
edit: having said all that, the examples you gave aren't the evolution of a style or idea... they're direct copies. Weren't the originals protected under copyright? Didn't the subsequent artists have to pay a licensing fee to record somebody's existing song?
Last edited by Pat Marr; 03/05/1410:57 AM. Reason: followup
But its worth pointing out that the guys you mention as being the originator of the ideas... they got their ideas from somebody else too... how far back do we go to find the "originator" of the idea?
That's not the point at all.
One performer or group earned enough loot from making a recording of the other's recording and the former gets to live like kings in fine houses located in fine neighborhoods while the original composer/performer is forced to exist in a tar paper shack or an inner city "ghetto" situation. The white group earns enough to send their kids to college from the recording, the black originator of the music does not earn enough from the licensing fees of the white recording to do much more than purchase groceries and maybe a used car.
Quote:
edit: having said all that, the examples you gave aren't the evolution of a style or idea... they're direct copies. Weren't the originals protected under copyright? Didn't the subsequent artists have to pay a licensing fee to record somebody's existing song?
In some cases, licensing was likely paid. But the amount of money that reaches the original recording artist - if they even still or ever owned the rights to the recording in the first place, often they did not - is a very small fraction as compared to the amount of money that the white artists, white owned recording companies and white owned radio stations and their advertisers glean from the sordid business.
The same Gus Cannon had a song about the true situation:
Bet you never heard of Henry Thomas, he wore a "Quill" around his neck much like Bob Dylan's harmonica rack worked, only the Quill was actually a hand made Pan Flute. Guitar in Sebastopol tuning:
I knew of quite a few examples, mainly more recent like the 50's and 60's Blues. But I have to admit I had not hear of Gus Cannon and Henry Thomas, which leads me to believe there must be many more I need to hear.
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With Band-in-a-Box® 2026, we've released 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 468-488) in a variety of genres—featuring your most requested styles!
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MIDI Styles Set 92: Look Ma! More MIDI 15: Latin Jazz
MIDI SuperTracks Set 46: Piano & Organ
Instrumental Studies Set 24: Groovin' Blues Soloing
Artist Performance Set 19: Songs with Vocals 9
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Instrumental Studies 25 - Soul Jazz Guitar Soloing
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SynthMaster Sounds & Styles Set 2 (sounds & styles with audio demos)
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