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I have just upgraded my car stereo from the OEM cassette/radio to a nice new Kenwood system. The head unit is a 22W RMS/ 50W peak times 4 (front and rear, L+R) CD/AM/FM job with provision for aux. in via a 3.5mm socket, (handy to plug your Zoom H4 in after recording a gig or band practice) and additionally a USB socket, so a USB stick full of mp3's works well and sounds great. Speakers are 6 1/2" 3 way in the doors and a couple of 6 by 9's on the parcel shelf, all Kenwood and all 4 ohm.
I feel however (as a bass player) that the bottom end is a bit lacking and no amount of bass emphasis using the standard EQ controls is really adequate. So I've bought a Polk Audio subwoofer, model db840DVC. This is an 8 inch unit 4 ohm unit with a claimed capacity of 180W RMS and 360W peak. It utilises dual 4 ohm voice coils and consistent with that has 2 pairs of speaker terminals, one each opposite the other on the speaker basket. Claimed freq. range is 30hz to 200Khz and sensitivity is a claimed 85db at 1 watt (and I assume I meter- that's approx 39 " to you guys). The plan is to mount the subwoofer within the boot, or "trunk" as most of you guys would say, on to a conveniently placed circular depression at the rear of the parcel shelf in my '98 Mitsubishi Diamente, sold here as a "Magna". Whether I cut a hole of the appropriate diameter in that circular depression in the parcel shelf stamping for the sub to fire through, or just drill it full of holes, I haven't yet decided. It doesn't look to be stress bearing.
Powering the subwoofer will be a stand alone amp, one I have had lying around for years from a previous car stereo installation. It is an Awia MA - 3000, a model dating from the early 90's when it was considered high powered. Specs are 35+35W RMS stereo/65+65W peak. It claims on the side of the unit "Matching Impedance 4-8 Ohms". I'm assuming that the quoted wattage figures relate to a 4 ohm load rather than 8 ohm. It is bridgeable with an external switch from stereo to mono usage and mono is obviously how I plan to use it, so in theory I should have 70W RMS/130W peak available. It is old but in good nick. Usage wise, I don't listen to "doof doof" music, as car based rap is often characterized, but enjoy rock, jazz, pop and even orchestral. I'm not going for deafening volume, but headroom and a bit of bona fide thump. After all, I turn 53 this year!
The plan is to connect both of the amps output terminal pairs (ie. L+R) to the subs pair of speaker terminals. As the amp will be bridged it should deliver 35W RMS (max), across 4 ohm, to both coils. THe amp has an external sensitivity adjustment, and the head unit provides for independent subwoofer level adjustment
So much for the background. Now to the questions. (BTW, I've searched the Polk site to attempt to answer these Q.'s- no specific hard answers forthcoming but will post on their forum)
Can anyone see problems with this proposition?
Is this insufficient power for the speaker?
How does this wiring plan look to you?
Glad of any help,
Cheers,
John
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Hey Shackman;
I am not sure about the wiring and the amps issue, but I have tried building and mounting speakers. There are formulas available on the Net for correct enclosures to get the maximum sound out of any speaker . An enclosed spaced is always better than just hooking speakers somewhere in the trunk as I used to do as a youth. They are always "phased" also. Be sure to hook negative(black, maybe) to minus and positive (red, maybe) to positive. Could be green and brown or whatever. But they work better with designated neg to neg and pos to pos. Also, enclosing them is better. Porting is also good. This is a hole a certain distance from the speaker, sometimes 2"-3" in diameter. It all has to do with correct sound. I built a set of PA speakers once for my home, and discovered the difference between speakers and musical instrument speakers. There are actually enclosure mathematical formulas available for the diameter of the speaker you plan to use. Just putting it in the trunk and using the entire trunk as your "enclosure" will not yield as good of results as an enclosure within the trunk.
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That's not bridged. In order to bridge an amp you must put a jumper between the + of one channel and the - of the other channel. You then must feed each input out of phase with each other.
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Quote:
Can anyone see problems with this proposition?
Yes.
You said, "This is an 8 inch unit 4 ohm unit with a claimed capacity of 180W RMS and 360W peak. It utilises dual 4 ohm voice coils ..."
And then you said you intend to run the subwoofer power amp bridged into 4 ohms.
But you have two 4 ohm voicecoils.
In parallel, they would be 2 ohms.
Besides that, whatever you use for a crossover in front of that amp will likely be in stereo.
I suggest you use the two 4 ohm voice coils hooked to the amp in stereo and don't be so concerned about the apparent higher wattage gain involved with running a strapped mono amp.
Quote:
Is this insufficient power for the speaker?
The best way to know that would be to try an experimental hookup and see. The efficiency of the subwoofer itself is going to be more important than counting watts here.
Quote:
How does this wiring plan look to you?
Like it would blow up the amplifier very quickly if you bridged it and then hooked up both voice coils, see the above again.
*Do you have an active crossover?
*You don't have to punch a hole for bass waves if you keep the amplitude and thus the air motion down below the point where the spotwelds are being broken as in one of those "boom cars".
*You can add some low end to that older amplifier by utilizing large capacitor (1-Farad or so is now available for just this purpose) on its power supply right where the power goes into the amp. This will provide a current "tank" and will effectively lower the bass response plus elminate power depletion on the bass waves. You can find these type of capacitors where auto sound is sold. You likely only need one good cap here.
--Mac
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Okay, thanks Luvs3rds, Mac + silvertones for your assist.
Luvs3rds, I'm tending towards buying or constructing a cabinet. Only prob is that Polk recommend a nearly 9L enclosure. That would be about 2 US gallons, more or less, and means more weight and less space in the boot (trunk). However, if that's what it takes...
Moreover, my auto enthusiast nephew tells me that if I were to cut or drill into the parcel shelf to mount the sub it might affect the cars roadworthy status ( and thus insurability).
Silvertones, the bridging would be done using the external switch on the amp which provides for this (and suggests the amp designers are allowing for a mono use, such as a sub). I can't get hold of the manual for this amp, too old, but am assuming that if it is bridged using the external control, that ohmage applying doesn't drop below the 4-8ohms range printed on the side of the amp.
Mac, your guidance is appreciated. I take on board your idea of running the amp in unbridged mode. However, the available subwoofer signal from the head unit is a one lead mono affair. If I run the amp unbridged, won't that mean that only one side of the amp, either the L or R, will deliver wattage to the sub, (at a maxium 35W RMS) even if both pairs of amp outputs are connected to both pairs of inputs on the sub?
I would have thought that utilising the amps internal bridging mode (with the switch Aiwa provide on the case) would enable a mono signal, into either L or R, to exit the amp as a dual mono signal of up to 35 W RMS through each of the amps L + R outputs...unless for some reason it actually means you get an up to 70W RMS output out of ONE only of the amps outputs. And which one? Presumably the same side as the side you put a signal into...but that strikes me as too "suck it and see". The Japanese are better engineers than that.
I don't have an active crossover but provision is made for that on a "software basis" by dialling that into the head units menu of settings, once it detects the sub is connected. You can select (from memory) 50/80/120/160 hz as your desired points.
Finally, I note your comments about capacitors and will keep that in mind. Haven't seen them myself at auto stores but will keep my eyes open for them.
As always, thanks very much chasps.
J.
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Quote:
Luvs3rds, I'm tending towards buying or constructing a cabinet. Only prob is that Polk recommend a nearly 9L enclosure. That would be about 2 US gallons, more or less, and means more weight and less space in the boot (trunk). However, if that's what it takes...
Moreover, my auto enthusiast nephew tells me that if I were to cut or drill into the parcel shelf to mount the sub it might affect the cars roadworthy status ( and thus insurability).
Pay heed to yer nephew's advice. In today's autos there is no wasted sheet metal, quite often the case that it is part of unibody construction and therefore hacking away metal is the equivalent of removing frame parts, not good.
There are subwoofers designed for automotive use, with abs or other composite loaded cabinetry already tuned to match. You would do good to look into those.
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Silvertones, the bridging would be done using the external switch on the amp which provides for this (and suggests the amp designers are allowing for a mono use, such as a sub). I can't get hold of the manual for this amp, too old, but am assuming that if it is bridged using the external control, that ohmage applying doesn't drop below the 4-8ohms range printed on the side of the amp.
BUT -- the sub you describe has TWO VOICECOILS in it. Designed to receive the stereo signal. One voicecoil could be connected to the bridged amp safely, but the speaker was designed to have both voicecoils active. Leaving one voice coil unconnected adds MASS to the cone that was unintended by the designers and will change the specs of the woofer considerably. Connecting both voice coils in parallel will result in a 2 ohm load which is outside the safe range of that amp and will blow output devices to kingdom come in a short amount of time. One could connect the two voice coils in series to yield an 8 ohm load, but the polarity is important here so that one is not pushing while the other is pulling but the real problem I foresee in this scenario would be both a phase/time issue and also the fact that you would lose all of your apparent power advantage from bridging the amp by applying an 8 ohm load.
Quote:
Mac, your guidance is appreciated. I take on board your idea of running the amp in unbridged mode. However, the available subwoofer signal from the head unit is a one lead mono affair. If I run the amp unbridged, won't that mean that only one side of the amp, either the L or R, will deliver wattage to the sub, (at a maxium 35W RMS) even if both pairs of amp outputs are connected to both pairs of inputs on the sub?
Take the mono input signal and split it with a simple Y connection or adaptor such that it is applied to the input of both sides of the amp. You will then realize 70W rms from the two amps and the twin voicecoil speaker. This should be ample enough. Remember the "log10" decibel situation here, which in layman's terms states that you must have TEN TIMES the power to be twice as loud. Therefore a small amount of apparent wattage gain is neither seen nor heard.
Splitting the mono sig between the two amp inputs will not load down the line level signal enough to shake a stick at because the output if low impedence and the input of the amplifier(s) will still be higher than the output and cannot "load it down" then. Ohm's law.
Quote:
I would have thought that utilising the amps internal bridging mode (with the switch Aiwa provide on the case) would enable a mono signal, into either L or R, to exit the amp as a dual mono signal of up to 35 W RMS through each of the amps L + R outputs...unless for some reason it actually means you get an up to 70W RMS output out of ONE only of the amps outputs. And which one? Presumably the same side as the side you put a signal into...but that strikes me as too "suck it and see". The Japanese are better engineers than that.
NO.
Bridging a stereo amplifier results in using the L side for PUSH and the R side for PULL of a single voicecoil. (or vice verse, does not matter)
Most Bridged amplifier situations only have ONE speaker output left, typically connecting the one voicecoil from + of L channel to + of R channel and ignoring the - speaker connections altogether.
Quote:
I don't have an active crossover but provision is made for that on a "software basis" by dialling that into the head units menu of settings, once it detects the sub is connected. You can select (from memory) 50/80/120/160 hz as your desired points.
That is indeed an active crossover. It is just not separate from the head, it is build inside of it as a modular unit, if you will. That is a Good Thing.
Quote:
Finally, I note your comments about capacitors and will keep that in mind. Haven't seen them myself at auto stores but will keep my eyes open for them.
Read up on the how and why of the storage capacitor on the 12V powerline here.
Of particular interest here should be the fact that having that electron "tank" placed right next to the power input of the amplifier INCREASES available bass response and also provides an ample amount of joules readily available for reproduction of bass transient excursions, which translates simply to the ability to help your amplifier reproduce what it must reproduce. Without the big cap, DC voltage drop and "brownout" can occur, causing clipping that does not need to be there. This is an old and well known situation.
All amplifiers of any kind are simply Modulated Power Supplies. Hence the power conditioning caps are a Good Thing.
You can google "auto amplifier capacitors" to find suppliers and brands.
Be advised that some are simply way overpriced, some are way too cheap. Answer to that dilemma is simple enough -- don't buy the cheap and don't buy the super-expensive, find one that is prices somewhere between the two extremes and you will very likely get the best bang per buck along with good performance.
The amp running into that subwoofer's dual voicecoil as a stereo amp, with its input Y spliced together from your mono signal output, plus a good ample power capacitor, will indeed outperform any other possible hookup configuration given the equipments cited here. Period. (This is provable empirically "on the bench" BTW)
--Mac
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Mac,
Thank you again most sincerely for your advice.
I love the Y input idea together with running in conventional mode and will definitely take that approach.
I will also follow up on auto amplifier capacitors. I have seen various bits of car audio electronical, power amps, cabling and wiring and such at the auto parts stores but never paid much attention to the componetry on display as well (other than to shrink in horror at the prices some people are willing to pay for car audio bits that will win volume bake-offs of greater than 130dB,) but will seek out a capacitor.
Any suggestions of a size/rating capacitor given my existing bits?
Cheers from a very bushfire blackened Victoria, Australia.
John
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I'll peruse some Australian dealer websites and if I find anything promising will let you know, John.
--Mac
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Hello all.
I have ressurected this thread in case any of the PG alumni have had any experience with subwoofer installs.
Mac and I have had some discussions on the install amplification which has been hugely helpful, and much appreciated. Now to the sleeves up business of making like Jim Marshall and doin' that funky chicken wood shop thang.
I plan to make a 10 litre/0.35 cubic foot subwoofer enclosure per the Polk Audio specs for my newly purchased Polk db840DVC sub woofer speaker and the end product will go somewhere into the trunk of my '98 Mitsubishi Diamante. Here are my dumb questions, (and maybe it takes a bass player to wonder about this stuff) :
(A) Does it matter in terms of sound dispersion or percieved volume which way the sub speaker box is pointed- ie. side, front facing or rearwards?
(B) Or for that matter, where in the trunk the sub is placed?
The 2 candidate positions in my car, a sedan, are:
(1) As far forward as poss. and thus close to the rear seat back (in fact potentially mounted on the rear seat back, if not the floor of the trunk), or
(2) At the rear of the trunk and to one side behind a wheel well, but up off the floor, hung on brackets. I need the floor space for my v. long bass case, among other things.
I'm asking this because, unlike the situation of passengers hearing door mounted or rear deck speakers, with a sub in an enclosure sitting in the trunk there is of course a barrier to the subs sound entering the passenger compartment and thus the listeners ears, formed by the rear deck/parcel shelf and the back of the rear seat. And these barriers being formed by a thin sheet of steel plus some upholstery, surely some muffling of sound originating in the trunk must occur. At least, you would think so.
Some sundry related Q.'s
(C) Are the frequencies subs produce sufficiently deep that these barriers don't matter much?...or is it the case that the whole trunk compartment acts as a speaker enclosure and the vibrations are felt in the passenger compartment?
(D) If the trunk is filled with luggage, is that going to muffle the subs output as heard inside the passenger compartment?
Look forward to your reponses.
Thanks, John
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Quote:
(A) Does it matter in terms of sound dispersion or percieved volume which way the sub speaker box is pointed- ie. side, front facing or rearwards?
No. The ear cannot tell directionality with the low frequencies. The wavelengths are simply too long to establish directionality. That is why a subwoofer can be placed anywhere within the listening space, doesn't matter.
Of course, *ideally* one would want the subwoofer in the same airspace as the listener's ears, but in your automobile there are likely space constraints involved, so the tradeoff of trunk placement is often a solution. Or use of a smaller subwoofer that may fit inside the car somewhere. I've seen and heard the little tubular Bazookas used in that fashion.
Quote:
(B) Or for that matter, where in the trunk the sub is placed?
Nope. For the same reasons as above.
Quote:
The 2 candidate positions in my car, a sedan, are:
(1) As far forward as poss. and thus close to the rear seat back (in fact potentially mounted on the rear seat back, if not the floor of the trunk), or
(2) At the rear of the trunk and to one side behind a wheel well, but up off the floor, hung on brackets. I need the floor space for my v. long bass case, among other things.
Because of those long wavelengths, the sonic difference between any position possible within the entire vehicle is not enough to make the difference. So put it where it seems to be most feasible.
Quote:
I'm asking this because, unlike the situation of passengers hearing door mounted or rear deck speakers, with a sub in an enclosure sitting in the trunk there is of course a barrier to the subs sound entering the passenger compartment and thus the listeners ears, formed by the rear deck/parcel shelf and the back of the rear seat. And these barriers being formed by a thin sheet of steel plus some upholstery, surely some muffling of sound originating in the trunk must occur. At least, you would think so.
Those long wavelengths will penetrate to a great degree. While there may be a *slight* decrease in amplitude, it is likely not worth being concerned about here.
Quote:
(C) Are the frequencies subs produce sufficiently deep that these barriers don't matter much?...or is it the case that the whole trunk compartment acts as a speaker enclosure and the vibrations are felt in the passenger compartment?
You are getting closer to the actual physics with this one.
Quote:
(D) If the trunk is filled with luggage, is that going to muffle the subs output as heard inside the passenger compartment?
That depends. More than likely, soft luggage that fills most of the air environment in the trunk can dampen the sound. But how often do you have enough luggage in there able to fill all of the available airspace in the trunk?
An installation such as this has to be considered as a tradeoff condition. When there is a lot of luggage in the trunk, you will have to live with whatever the sound quality degradation may (or may not) be.
The one thing that concerns me more about filling the trunckspace would be COOLING airflow available for any amplifier(s) installed back there. On a hot day, that could be asking for thermal destruction of output devices. These kind of problems are typically solved with common sense (don't pack the trunk so full that you have to sit on the lid to close it) and perhaps also with a small 12V cooling fan installation if necessary. Stirred air will cool the amp better in an enclosed area such as your trunk no matter what. Still, there will be an ultimate temperature buildup limit. Your locale's climate has as much to do with that as anything else, too. Common sense should apply.
--Mac
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I have a nice 89 Mercedes 560 SEC coupe. Looks good for a 20 year old car and I needed to replace the speakers a few years ago. I don't need to spend thousands for a car system when I have way more than that in high end stuff at home so I only spent maybe $600 replacing the 4 stock speakers, adding two 8 inch subs and a modest 4 channel amp. I had a guy mount the subs directly to the package shelf behind the rear seat and they just hang there in the open with no holes cut in the shelf. To get the best sound I should enclose them but like you, I need pretty much all the trunk space for for gigs and a standard box is too big. I would have to custom make something and measure it carefully to make sure I still have room and I haven't done that yet because those subs sound pretty good as is. I get plenty of bass right though that shelf. Of course, I listen to regular music not strong boom boom stuff and this is all very subjective. You may well want better sound than I do, I really don't care about a great sound in the car, just decent like a stock BMW system a friend of mine has.
Bob
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Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyle.
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- MIDI Styles Set 93: Look Ma! More MIDI 16: SynthMaster
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 47: More SynthMaster
- Instrumental Studies 25 - Soul Jazz Guitar Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 20: Songs with Vocals 10
- RealDrums Stems Set 10: Groovin' Sticks
- SynthMaster Sounds & Styles Set 2 (sounds & styles with audio demos)
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®!
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