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Now if I get a bad audience (which is extremely rare) or have to learn a song I don't like, I think of the wasps and everything is fine.
A bad day playing music is better than a good day at any day gig I can think of.
plus, nobody applauds when you fix a telephone line! Hey Danny... this started out as your thread, didn't it? ten pages later, its still full of interesting and well-considered comments! thanks for getting this one rolling!
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hey Notes, You have a lot of interesting and insightful stories. You should consider writing a book. But not just a book of stories.. there are already too many of those. Like these forum discussions where we analyze the past present and future of the music industry and illustrate our points with personal accounts, I think it would be a timely offering to write a book about the changing paradigm, illustrated with stories of how you've adapted to change in the industry. There seems to be a bottomless pit of Musicians looking for the key to success, so the market for such a book should be quite large. And you don't appear to have writer's block.  If you cut and pasted from your various posts in the forum, then edited it to follow an outline, you could probably start and finish the book in a weekend.
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Isn't called show business for nothing. Good point. I’ve never wanted to be a “showman”. I’ve never wanted to be an “entertainer.” The only thing I’ve wanted as a musician is to play for people who wanted to quietly LISTEN to the music instead of expecting me to entertain them while they ignored me. It’s perfectly okay for folks to get rowdy between songs, but while I’m playing I want them to either shut up and listen, …or leave immediately. That’s part of why I chose to focus primarily on acoustic music. Wood and strings. Honest and intimate. It can be played on your front porch when the electricity is off or around a campfire at night. I’ve been called a “purist” on here more than once. I now also find myself thinking about music in terms of art or entertainment. I’ll take “art” 99.99% of the time. If I hear 2 instruments coming through the PA system, I want to see 2 musicians on stage. If I hear 5 instruments, then I want to see 5 musicians on stage. My favorite combo when playing live is a duo. Preferably guitar and mandolin. Both instruments are well suited to lead and a solid rhythm backup. But as I’ve repeatedly stated on these forums, that’s just my opinion. I don’t speak for anyone other than myself. That doesn’t mean it’s not a valid opinion. Keep it simple and honest: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MU1cWO_38Bw&index=21&list=PL7MZ550uvzVrKj0jp-Fr-Pvc75KOrJsOV You do realize that Ms. Hull is playing a cover, right? 
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To Bob's point regarding listening audiences. I had to get a few years under my belt playing gigs before I understood that they are different types of audiences, very often all intermingled within the same crowd. Now I break them down into "three groups" but I am sure others may have variations on my filing system.
#1. The group no artist, musician or entertainer are not too crazy about, and that is the people who just want your music in the background to enhance, not interfere with nor overpower their conversations.
#2. Bob's favorites (and mine "sometime" also) the listeners, they like to hear every note, every chord change and every lick.
#3. The third are the dancers, they also like to hear every note, chord change and lick, with one caveat, they also like to feel them.
I guess with this stated I am neither a artist or an entertainer but more of a psychologist/social worker. Man and do I have fun doing it. Might even start carrying a couch to my gigs.
PS: And for what it's worth I am very happy that 99% of the time I either get the #2's and 3's a couple times a week.
Later, Danny you forgot one, the one that always wants to play “Stump the Band”! You know they always try to pick of song that is either irrelevant to the occasion or so obscure that no one knows it. Right Mario . . . This does not happen as often as it did back in the day, I am guessing because I play for a more sophisticated clientele now. What I used to do was try to ignore them or if they persist I ask them to the mic to sing it and purposeless insert a few clammy chords here and there. Pretty soon the audience would turn on them. Later,
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I have a new slogan, "I will play for fun or money".
Some of the most fun I have ever had was playing charity events. No one was getting paid, we were all there for the same reason, there was no ego pressure to show up the group before you or after you. Food, drink, real gratitude, and fun, that was enough.
I have also had some terrible nights in some bars. I don't have to tell you what that entailed. These are the gigs you dread, but at least you have decent money in your pocket when you finally leave.
I have attended some club "jams" where there was no fun and no money. After I attended a few of those, it was obvious they did not match my new "fun or money" criteria.
So, if you don't have any money, but you want me to play, all you need to do is find a way for it to be fun. If you don't know how to have fun, then your place is not right place for me.
Thanks.
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Hey Carl. I'm a bar owner, and I'm always looking for someone to play "just for fun". We can guarantee you a fun night, and maybe even some tips! After all, why should I pay a pro when there are so many people willing to play for free? Let's have some fun!
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Carl,
I see you are in the advertising specialty business, t-shirts, mouse pads etc.etc. If I send you my business logos would you please send me a couple hundred "free" T-Shirts? And feel free to have as much fun producing them as you like.
Not trying to be a wise @$$ for any fun, just being one in an attempt to drive home a point.
And to reiterate, charities are wonderful I have and an currently doing all I can in that regard, so they were not even considered when I suggested playing for nothing is not a good thing for musicians to do.
Take care Carl.
Later,
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Good for you Carl! Do what makes you happy!
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Hi Carl. I like that! I play for fun or money! Mind if I use it? Bob. I would probably play at your club if you offered a fun evening for no money that turned out to be not such fun but I would only play once and probably not for very long.
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When Carl talks about playing for fun, it kind of sounds like he’s talking about playing for friends at a private party. I can relate to that.
It’s not the equivalent of playing for free at a bar. BTW, I always HATED playing at bars!
Those as*holes always thought it was okay to make noise and ignore you while you played! Hehe. Those people don’t deserve live music. They only deserve a jukebox with quarters required after each song.
Live music should be reserved for people who will sit down, shut up and listen! ... Or LEAVE!
I wouldn’t bother playing for anyone who wouldn’t do those things.
And another thing, … NO REQUESTS!
I couldn’t possibly care less about what song you want to hear!
That’s the trouble with playing for pay. The person paying you wants to have a say in what music you play. That’s a deal breaker for me.
Always has been.
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I can't believe this thread is still alive....
I used to play for free and for pay. I made a living with music for a number of years in a band....loved it all, every minute of it.... don't play out anymore so it doesn't matter to me at this point.....
Let it die a peaceful death, and play or not, as your heart leads.
Last edited by Guitarhacker; 07/17/14 04:51 AM.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Danny and 90 db, what cities are you in? I grew up in New Orleans, but I sure have been south of there too. I live just outside Orlando now, but I am willing to travel a bit for some real fun.
Fun for me New Orleans style is The Old Fart Jam, usually about the same time as Cruisin' the Coast. The OFJ is in a secret warehouse near the Superdome. One time we had 17 guitarist playing all at the same time. (1 bass, 1 drums, 2 keyboard players.) You can bring anything you want, but you have to carry it up a long flight of stairs, so combos are the norm. Yes, you can play any volume you want, no one will ever tell you to turn down. To me that is another kind of fun, playing on 11 through a tube amp. Fun in MS is The Biker Blow Out. Can't give out any details, just take my word for that one. Fun and money!
Still waiting on some real music fun in FL. I am thinking of about a place on I-Dr. that has belly dancers might be fun. I think I had better ask for money in case its not.
About those free T-Shirts...I spent hours working on a logo with Photoshop then sweated my buttocks off heat pressing the shirts. Had to ask for money for those, it wasn't fun. Fun or Money, its got to be one or the other.
Time for some BIAB fun.
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Carl,
I grew up South of New Orleans, and you probably know there ain't much South of Nawlins man.
I guess it all boils down to what each of us consider fun. For example jamming with 16 other guitars in no way shape or form would fall under the fun column for me, lmao, and the volume thing list right under it as well. But that is why (dating myself here for sure) Howard Johnson add all the flavors.
My idea of music fun at my old age is entertaining for an hour or so for a music savvy audience who will not break out in a fight or fall down from an overdose. I do this about 75 - 100 times every year and love it.
Also I have discovered Street Jelly where I play online and because of the tipping feature I am able to give St. Jude Children Hospital and The Wounded Warrior Project anywhere from 100 - 250 bucks each month. To me this also is fun.
And I will concede this, no job is worth the money if it is not fun . . . but it ain't no disgrace getting paid while having fun either.
Best to you Carl
PS: I will check out your T-Shirt Quality and Pricing, even if I have to pay. :>
Later,
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Gotta say Carl, 17 guitarists is at least 15 too many!
But since you had fun, that's cool.
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Fortunately, all 17 guitarists were at the very least semi-pro. It was pretty amazing that it would work at all and there was only one song that was a true train wreck. I think the #1 thing that helped was the room was huge, we lined up on four walls, everyone has plenty of space with a PA stack in all the corners.
What I also liked was you could see and hear everyone's main rigs. I think every brand of everything was represented. Where else can you hear that?
It was a great way for a room full of Old Farts to feel young again for few hours.
Its time for me to bow out of this thread and go play my acoustic guitar quietly on the back porch. That's fun too.
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Fortunately, all 17 guitarists were at the very least semi-pro. It was pretty amazing that it would work at all and there was only one song that was a true train wreck. I think the #1 thing that helped was the room was huge, we lined up on four walls, everyone has plenty of space with a PA stack in all the corners.
What I also liked was you could see and hear everyone's main rigs. I think every brand of everything was represented. Where else can you hear that?
It was a great way for a room full of Old Farts to feel young again for few hours.
Its time for me to bow out of this thread and go play my acoustic guitar quietly on the back porch. That's fun too. Seriously Carl consider playing on Street Jelly, I look forward to seeing and hearing you. Later,
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Good one Josie, thanks.
Later,
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
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Band-in-a-Box 2026 Video: AI Stems & Notes - split polyphonic audio into instruments and transcribe
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Here’s just a small sampling of what you can look forward to in XPro Styles PAK 10: Soft indie folk worship songs, bumpin’ country boogies, gospel praise breaks, hard rockin’ pop, funky disco grooves, smooth Latin jazz pop, bossa nova fusion, western swing, alternative hip-hop, cool country funk, and much more!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 10 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 10 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
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Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest Xtra Styles PAK installment—the all new Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher)!
Rejoice, one and all, for Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box® is here! We’re serving up 200 brand spankin’ new styles to delight your musical taste buds! The first three courses are the classics you’ve come to know and love, including offerings from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, but, not to be outdone, this year’s fourth course is bro country! A wide ranging genre, you can find everything from hip-hop, uptempo outlaw country, hard hitting rock, funk, and even electronica, all with that familiar bro country flair. The dinner bell has been rung, pickup up Xtra Styles PAK 21 today!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Energetic folk rock, raucous train beats, fast country boogies, acid jazz grooves, laid-back funky jams, a bevy of breezy jazz waltzes, calm electro funk, indie synth pop, industrial synth metal, and more bro country than could possibly fit in the back of a pickup truck!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 21 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 21 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 21.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 21 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 21 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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