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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 3
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Joined: Jun 2014
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Dear forum,
I am a huge fan of BIAB for a very long time and play as a volunteer in elderly homes. I use now the 2014 version and love the realtrack sound.
I connect my laptop directly to a bose L1 PA installation via the headphone output.
Question 1: is it possible to use a USB-DAC converter in combination with BIAB?
Question 2: does it significantly enhance the quality of the output signal for songs where I use realtracks?
thanks and regards
jean
Last edited by jeanpanhuis; 06/10/14 02:53 PM.
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Jan 2002
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Jean, Remember that your computer also has a DAC converter built in, and that is what is doing the job on converting the digital information to analog sounds. The answer to your question is 'it depends.' A $29 USB DAC converter, probably not. A $100 converter, maybe. A $1,000 converter, yes, but with caveats. What are you using to create your sounds? If it's something like the Coyote WT synth, then no matter how much you spend, your sounds are still going to sound like a 3 MB sample set. My personal opinion is look for the best SOUND GENERATOR to get the best sound, and then, if it's a software synth in the computer, you can investigate buying a better USB DAC. You might consider something like this: http://www.digitalproaudiosamples.com/#!soundfont/c19or By the way, that soundfont is on sale http://www.gmsoundfont.com/Used with a VSTi SoundFont player, it would appear to sound pretty good, but not being able to hear the whole thing, I don't know. Gary
Last edited by Gary Curran; 06/10/14 05:45 AM.
I'm blessed watching God do what He does best. I've had a few rough years, and I'm still not back to where I want to be, but I'm on the way and things are looking far better now than what they were!
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Jun 2014
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Hi Gary
Thanks a lot for your answer.
When I look under BIAB Options I see Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth as the MIDI output driver.
As synthesizer/soundcard the Coyote wavetable DXI is used.
(When I use BIAB for an audience I do not first create WAV files but run the songs from BIAB directly).
Do I understand correctly that I first need to select a better alternative for the coyote wavetable DXI to generate a better sound?
So with the soundfont midi bank in combination with the build in GM wavetable it should be already better?
Some years ago I used the SOundcanvas SC50 with BIAB but I cannot use it anymore because I do not find drivers for Windows 8.
thanks again for your advice.
best regards
jean
Last edited by jeanpanhuis; 06/10/14 07:59 AM.
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Jean, You're using the VSTi and the Coyote WT synth, which is the same thing as the Windows General MIDI stuff, it's poor reproduction, and you can buy the best DAC out there, and it'll still sound like crap, because it is, in fact, crap sounds. There are several free VSTi SoundFont player. However, I found Plouge's Szforzando, which is a really nice player, since it can use multiple format styles. I would download this, and then start looking for Free SoundFont libraries, and some of them are pretty darned impressive. So, here's a couple of samples for you to think about. This is just the chord progression for Begin the Beguine, no melody. With the Coyote WT Synth This is with the Szforzando Player. There are tons of Free Sound Fonts Hammer Sound Synthfonts has links. Ntonyx has individual sounds. And let me say something, with the Sfzorzando player, you can put different sound fonts for each instrument. Look here, too! Some pretty impressive ones. Anyway, I would say the Sfzorzando Player would be your best bet, and then convert everything to two track wave file and play that way. By the way, look for those Sound Font and SFZ format libraries, there's some pretty amazing stuff out there. But, I will warn you. I will recommend that you do all the recording at home, and create either .wav, .wma, and high quality .mp3 files, because you have to load in new sound fonts for every song, unless you get a default multi-timbral software synth, and I don't think you're going to be happy with it. Gary
Last edited by Gary Curran; 06/10/14 08:03 PM.
I'm blessed watching God do what He does best. I've had a few rough years, and I'm still not back to where I want to be, but I'm on the way and things are looking far better now than what they were!
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Gary gave great advice about using a better sound source for MIDI. What you have now sounds like toy sounds compared to what you could get for a reasonable investment, such as Coyote Forte (not Wavetable).
I would like to return to your original post. Yes, there are better ways to connect your laptop to your PA than the laptop's headphone jack. The ones I know connect via USB to the laptop and give either 1/4" or RCA output jacks. Now, the audio PLAYBACK quality of most modern laptops is pretty good with the built-in sound card (recording is an entirely different story); nevertheless, I will do whatever it takes to avoid using those 1/8" headphone mini jack connections in a live setting. The jacks go bad quickly and they easily produce noise. Just touch one when it's connected to a PA and you'll get a loud annoying cracking noise. You don't want to do that to your audience.
As far as playing back RealTracks, this is audio so as I mentioned, the laptop does a pretty good job with that as long as you keep the gain up.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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I use Garritan's Aria to reproduce very realistic instruments, far better than Coyote IMHO.
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Question 1: yes
Question 2: likely not
Yes you could use a USB interface which probably has better converters than the onboard sound card in the laptop. I would bet that it does. However, will you hear a "useable" difference. I doubt it....even with a really nice high dollar interface. Most of the converters are fairly decent and the audio amp section of the card in a lap top is pretty nice too. My laptop, an old one, sure sounds good with my cans. So I'm gonna say no.... I don't think there will be enough of a difference to justify the cost.
There is a better, easier, and cheaper way to improve the quality of the music. And you already likely have it.
Getting away from the synth sounds would be the best option.
In BB, you have a variety of styles....thousands actually. Many of them are using real tracks but the vast majority use MIDI and therefore synth patches (not samples) to create the sounds you hear. As a result, the sounds are less than stellar.
No matter what basic synth you use, (Coyote, TTS, Wavetable) it will retain that midi stiffness. You can however, take the time and manually replace the default synths with a custom synth as several folks previously mentioned. Something like Kontakt or GPO, etc...This gets you a better sound quality. It's still midi based, although much better sounds, often sampled as opposed to patches.
Taking the project into Real Band and using all real tracks will take it to an even higher level of quality IMHO. That gets you totally away from the synthesized sounds and using real, sampled, instrument sounds. I think with that setup, you will hear a difference. Not necessarily in sound quality but in the sound quality of the playing. It won't sound so fake, and so "midi".
Simply save the projects out of Real Band..... or better yet, export them as Wave files and arrange them in your favorite Music player in the laptop. Set them up in play lists and they will load instantly, and you have less of a chance of Murphy, and his laws, popping up in the middle of a performance.
Some folks like to run the music out of Real Band or BiaB saying they like to be able to do this or that in a show....OK, whatever....... to me, it doesn't matter. Out of RB/BB or Windows Media Player or any other music player.... the tracks will sound the exact same way to the audience. It's easier to use a simple player. But I guess some folks like that BB will run the words on the screen.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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