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So .. . .not a demo this time, all mixed up and mastered. I slapped on a button ending and re-did the kick drum to have a nice heavy smooth hit, then I mastered the whole thing for great vocal presence and warmth overall. Well. . . an EZMix master anyway. I pushed a button, I am sure that counts. Ok, any thoughts on this version? Sound Cloud Joe
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Joe,
I ABed them headphone and in the house. I like your first run better. I Feel the second one buries your vocal skills to much. You have a great voice and a lot Of nuance in your delivery which really comes thru to me in the first version along with an inviting space created between you and the banjo. I have no idea technically why, just my ears. Great tune. Great vocals and hope to hear more from you. Thanks so much for posting it.
Last edited by nobilis; 09/10/14 08:52 PM.
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Hi Joe. The master sounds to be a little brighter overall than the demo where the subject and tone of the song seemed better suited for the darker mix of the demo. Great song either way and the bottom line is if you are satisfied with it.
Charlie
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+1 Charlie "Great song either way and the bottom line is if you are satisfied with it". Well put.
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There's a bit more to "mastering" than to slap a few new FX on the mix and EQ it a tad and throw a compressor on for good measure..... but you probably know that already.
I listened to a few short segments in each....same approximate area A/B between them.
The first "demo" version has a much better overall sound quality to it. It has an open sound and is a few db louder. Hopefully you saved that version and the new one is a copy.
Personally I would go back to the older demo and do just a few things with it.
First, Reduce the overall reverb level. The reverb is really apparent when the vocals come in. If you have a verb on the mix and another one on the vocals, first try turning the vox verb down. Turn it off completely and listen on cans. turn it on and adjust the levels.... experiment to where it sounds good and a natural fit to the song.
Second thing is to find that magic sample or patch that makes that kick drum sound right in the mix. Since it is a steady simple quarter note hit, you could easily use any drum synth to do that. Think back to the period of time that this song represents. What kind of a drum would they have used? Most likely a large tom laid on it's side or an old worn out marching bass drum. You should be able to hear the ringing of the head, the slap of the beater, and yet none of this is captured in the sound I hear in either of the versions. What I hear is more of a muffled thud in both. Keep in mind that if you don't have a good drum synth and what you have is all you have to work with.... try layering a few tracks together.... use the existing thud kick, then layer a large tom on top, then slap a cardboard box and layer that in as well. I can't vouch for what might turn up out of such an experiment but you never know. Sometimes you have to think out side the box to get something right.
Then of course, button the ending on the demo. On the updated "finished" version, I guess you could call that an ending.... however, the editing is sloppy. It doesn't have a "natural" ending feel. Kinda like the volume faders were simply pulled down rather than the musicians ending it. It might take going back to BB and rendering a new version..... but if that's what it takes.... you should take the time to do it. I like what you did there at the end.... let the instruments stop and let the kick continue for 4 more beats.....and don't fade the volume on the kick.
The song is good, now, it's a matter of getting the engineering and the production up to the same level as the writing and vocal performance.
EDIT: tip on endings. Don't always use the 2 bar or 4 bar default BB default endings. This song is a good example of WHY NOT TO USE THE BB DEFAULT ENDING. Instead.... simply either remove the BB default ending or use a simple work around. The workaround is to add 8 or so MORE measures to the song immediately before the default kicks in. Then simply use the "chord hold" for the appropriate instruments at YOUR ending point..... let the kick play on for one more measure and then stop..... and let the natural decay/reverb tails fade..... edit this in the DAW and you have YOUR natural ending and not something that BB thinks it should do to end the song. I have started using this on a number of my songs and it works really nice. You can even use this method on future songs to retard the ending.
Last edited by Guitarhacker; 09/11/14 05:09 AM.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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lol, yes, my wife liked the original better as well. I have to agree. And that's an absolutely wonderful idea on the ending. I can do that! I hear a number of issues with this version and I was sorta wondering if it was just me or if others could hear them as well. Sure enough, you folks picked up on them and saw a couple I did not. Great advice I will get to work.
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lol, yes, my wife liked the original better as well. I have to agree. And that's an absolutely wonderful idea on the ending. I can do that! I hear a number of issues with this version and I was sorta wondering if it was just me or if others could hear them as well. Sure enough, you folks picked up on them and saw a couple I did not. Great advice I will get to work. the trick to being better than good at production and engineering is to hear the things that you know are wrong and go ahead and fix them. As you do this, over time you will start to hear the "other things" in there as well. Never be afraid to make changes even if that means scraping 2 weeks worth of work and starting again from scratch if that's what it takes. The pro's give it everything they have and accept only the absolute best, whereas the amateur thinks his first, or second effort is good enough and the brilliance of the song will overshadow the mistakes left in the mix. (because they're only small ones...right?)
Last edited by Guitarhacker; 09/11/14 10:40 AM.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Very neat song. Incredible voice. Banjo very cool
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Hello Joe,
I do agree with others that the demo version was better.
But this song is great. And man, I love your voice!
Regards,
Rob
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Excellent vocal on this one, love the simple arrangement and the banjo, nice thanks for sharing!
My TunesPsalm 57:7 My heart, O God, is steadfast, my heart is steadfast; I will sing and make music.
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Didn't actually A/B but the dynamics hit me more emotionally on the demo version. Really great song, and performance!! Take care. Greg
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Yes, I agree. I am terribly guilty of this. For me it came from the time I didn't take my music very seriously back before record deals, TV sales and well paid concerts. Everything was "good enough." The bar has gotten higher though. I see I must rise with it.
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I'm in two different camps about this one.
I really liked the first version. But I really like the fact that this one is sadder and darker. So the real question is what is your aim for this song?
I also think that both songs could use a little more mixing, such as in the second song the banjo gets in the way of the vocal IMHO. A few minor fixes like that would take both version over the top.
PS - either way this is one great song.
The fitness trainer asked me, "What kind of a squat are you accustomed to doing?" I said, "Diddly."
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I haven't hear the demo so my comments are about this version. Your voice is a good match for the song; you sing with great emotion. However your voice does not sit well with the banjo and fiddle. The voice is too upfront. The banjo and fiddle sound a little tone starved to me.
Unfortunately I'm at the stage I can tell something in the mix is not right. I am not proficent enough to recognize the issue(s) and suggest corrective actions.
Jim Fogle - 2025 BiaB (Build 1128) RB (Build 5) - Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk Sonar - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
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Hi ...
We didn't hear the original demo. We love the song and your voice is simply fabulous for this genre! The only technical nit we have is the ending does sound clipped. But, regardless, it's a great song and you have a terrific voice! Good luck with it ...
Alan & Di
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