One group that doesn't care or need 64-bit BIAB and this makes the 64-bit group distraught for some reason.
I don't think so. I think that one group doesn't care or need 64-bit BIAB while the other group does care and needs 64 bit. I am in the later however I will upgrade if there is something in the upgrade that I might want or need.
Principal: Your child always causes trouble in school. Me: My child causes trouble at home, do I ever call you?
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
My assumption is; if I purchase the audiofile edition of BIAB it uses .WAV files for RealTracks instead of the claimed lossless .WMA files in the budget version that I can afford. My assumption is also a much higher quality end result, uh, dependent on the user, of course. Perhaps sound quality-wise I would have no desire for 64 bit version. But, only for compatibility issues.
I believe you are correct that going to 64-bit in itself has no effect on audio quality. I just wanted to mention that I do not think PG Music ever referred to their .WMA files in the 'regular' version of BIAB as being lossless. They are not.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
There should be no affect on audio quality between a 32-bit BIAB and a 64-bit BIAB. I suspect some folks are confusing 64-bit application memory space with audio bit-rate settings (which would affect audio quality).
John
Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 12TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 12TB SATA
Why.....! What good would 64 bit give us as biab users ?.
Sound "quality" involves a lot more than bit depth and compression levels. There is a whole universe of technology that can do amazing things to enhance the overall impact of the sound. When I take BIAB tracks into a DAW where I can use the full palate of tools, I can create a much higher impact product. In most cases, if I could simply use some of those effects directly under BIAB, I could get close to the same results with much less work.
In short, the sound coming out of BIAB today might sound pretty good compared to the days of tinny sounding GM softsynths. But it is an UNPOLISHED sound, clearly inferior in a world that raises the bar every year. PGMusic really needs to play better with others. Their strategy of ignoring the rest of the music technology world and trying to lock their users into a walled garden is just not very appealing to me.
And for the same reason, I have very little use for the PGMusic realtracks. Give me great MIDI lines and I can run that through the best VST instruments out there.
I've followed this thread and the other similar ones from the sidelines but your post here is the best expression of the value of BIAB 64 bit enhancement for me and my use that I've seen.
Dr. Gannon has stated elsewhere that 64 bit is not an enhancement to BIAB or accessed by the core programming. You are quite correct in your statement that an entire universe of audio enhancement products exist that musicians, engineers and producers of every level of expertise have or can access.
There already exists a simple and clear path from BIAB that technicians at each and every level of expertise can use to give BIAB midi/RealTracks/Realdrums and midi supertracks access to this universe.
I think the end result this upgrade presents is we get another product that enlarges the existing audio enhancement universe but has no effect other than a minor convenience to reach a portion of it from within BIAB. No additional BIAB memory access. No additional channels. No 24 bit resolution or no audio enhancement of the existing audio tracks that benefit the entire BIAB community and not just the community of 64 bit users.
However, my guess is that the entire community of BIAB will suffer a significant price increase given the manhours, research and development, reprogramming and software development required to convert and upgrade the program to 64 bit.
How many 64 bit proponents will abandon the external existing audio enhancement universe, their preferred DAW and go to exclusive use of BIAB when it becomes the convenient 64 bit? None.
Likely, this 'upgrade' will lead to "now that we have 64 bit, we should be able to _______. So we need PGMusic to develop this next functionality."
Is zero enhancement of existing internal BIAB audio and zero abandonment of the existing audio enhancement universe = Entire BIAB community suffers price increase truly a value? BIAB has many strengths that would better benefit development in my opinion and would be more palpable to accept a price increase. No offense to anyone intended, nor is this an attempt to change any minds. Just a statement of my understanding to the value of a 64 bit version of BIAB.
There should be no affect on audio quality between a 32-bit BIAB and a 64-bit BIAB. I suspect some folks are confusing 64-bit application memory space with audio bit-rate settings (which would affect audio quality).
Audio quality is my greatest concern. As stated in my previous post, I don't think there is any shortage of existing tools that will do a better job than a 64 bit BIAB program.
Pumps2 - "When I take BIAB tracks into a DAW where I can use the full palate of tools, I can create a much higher impact product. In most cases, if I could simply use some of those effects directly under BIAB, I could get close to the same results with much less work.
In short, the sound coming out of BIAB today might sound pretty good compared to the days of tinny sounding GM softsynths. But it is an UNPOLISHED sound, clearly inferior in a world that raises the bar every year."
I think his remarks are right on the mark. So, to me, is a significant upgrade that will get me "close to the same results..." be a worthwhile venture leading to an increase in the cost of the program for everyone?
However, my guess is that the entire community of BIAB will suffer a significant price increase given the manhours, research and development, reprogramming and software development required to convert and upgrade the program to 64 bit.
Well, that sounds to me like an argument for Microsoft never progressing beyond Word 4 (anyone remember that one?). After all, with Word 4, it was technically possible to come up with a way to complete just about any document, if you were willing to work really hard at it and make some compromises.
In an industry segment that has progressed so rapidly, I find it really hard to justify Band-in-a-box's 1990s level of compatibility and presentation. Yes, BIAB enthusiasts can find ways to work around the arcane BIAB interface to get the end result they want. But it makes very little sense to me that this could actually be a good thing for the marketing of the product.
So just to be clear, I view modernization of the core product (64-bit) as being part of an overall modernization that should include easy, immediate access to all popular VSTis and VSTs without having to hack the product. (That should include automatically scanning for VSTs, as most other products do.) It should include unrestricted chains of effects, not an arbitrary limit of 4. It should involve a MUCH better user interface that includes the ability to undock panels and move them to second and third monitors, and so on. We are trapped in 1995 with this product.
I am a full time guitar teacher. I often use BIAB in my lessons. Two thing make it frustrating for me to use BIAB in my lessons.
1. Starting BIAB takes way to long to load. 2. BIAB takes way to long to build real track styles. Uncompromising the .wma files in Real Track and Real Drums then compiling the song takes a lot CPU power. I admit my computers are not the fastest out there. But they are 64 bit and have solid state hard drives. I know 64 bit would speed everything up.
The problem for me is I only have 30 minute lessons. I can't spend 3 to 6 minutes of the lesson waiting for BIAB. I often just go to YouTube and find a nice play a long someone has made which is a bit frustrating to me since YouTube is free and I have paid hundreds of dollars for BIAB. If PGMusic could reduce load up time and track generation by a minute or so it would be usable for me in my lessons. Some styles load a lot faster then others. I'm learning which one I have to avoid in lessons and only if I have BIAB already running in the background.
I can't spend 3 to 6 minutes of the lesson waiting for BIAB. I often just go to YouTube and find a nice play a long
As far as I am concerned, BIAB is not a real time tool. I know there are features in there targeted at real time usage, but it is just too cumbersome to use that way IMHO. I have rendered hundreds of songs for play-along. Many of them I have also mixed and mastered in a DAW. For me, BIAB is, at best, a tool to help in one piece of the process. I would like to see it do a better job of that piece (faster operation, avoidance of the maj/min errors and others mentioned above, much better user interface) and also cover a broader swath (support all popular VSTis and VSTs, allow more than 4 effects. etc).
I am simply not interested in 100 more real tracks if the underlying shortcomings are not improved.
If PGMusic could reduce load up time and track generation by a minute or so
...What are you start-up times?
I just started BIAB and it took 4.5 seconds. Also, I generated a 76 bar song that contained four realtracks and it started playing the first bar (after the count-in) in under 10 seconds. I have BIAB 2016.
EDIT: I don't have solid state drives but the \bb folder is excluded from being checked by my antivirus software.
I have noticed this on my laptop, but not my PC so much, and I can't figure it out.
On my PC, from click to run with a Real Style loaded it is about 28 seconds, which I won't mind, since Sonar takes about that long to load. Seems kinda normal.
On my laptop, though, with the same 64 bit operating system and plenty of RAM, it does take several minutes, and I have no idea why.
So I can see why if you are a teacher and using a laptop it would be frustrating. I am interested in the answer to this.
David Snyder Songwriter/Renaissance Man Studio + Fingers
On my laptop, though, with the same 64 bit operating system and plenty of RAM, it does take several minutes, and I have no idea why.
Have you excluded BIAB from your anti-virus scan? Of course, that's a tradeoff in that you must trust the BIAB executable file; however, it definitely does reduce startup times significantly. Also, what kind of hard drive do you have in your laptop. If SSD, I would think it should load pretty fast (unless it's loading from another drive). I've got 7200 RPM drives in my laptop, but many laptops (even new ones with a lot of RAM and processor horsepower) have 4200 or 5400 RPM drives, which will definitely affect performance (the slower drives improve battery life).
John
Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 12TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 12TB SATA
I have noticed this on my laptop, but not my PC so much, and I can't figure it out.
On my PC, from click to run with a Real Style loaded it is about 28 seconds, which I won't mind, since Sonar takes about that long to load. Seems kinda normal.
On my laptop, though, with the same 64 bit operating system and plenty of RAM, it does take several minutes, and I have no idea why.
So I can see why if you are a teacher and using a laptop it would be frustrating. I am interested in the answer to this.
David,
That's strange behaviour. I've never had any version of BIAB from 2006 until now take longer than about 30 - 40 seconds (on both laptop and desktop). The longer start-up times where when Realtracks technology was in its earlier days.
Both my laptops are really slow to start up and generate the tracks. I also have Dell mini form factor that is a little faster but still to slow. My home pc is a high end gaming pc that is fast. But it's monster pc with 16gig of RAM 6 core cpu, nVidia GPU ect... The fact that we are having a debate over 32 bit vs 64 in this day and age is just stupid. Even if there were no improvements at all, BIAB should still have a 64 bit option so that it can take advantage of memory, cpu and OS compatibility and improvements and any number of other improvements and features that may arise in the future.
The fact that we are having a debate over 32 bit vs 64 in this day and age is just stupid.
IK Multimedia just went to 64-bit this past year with SampleTank 3, so that's pretty recent. Finale just went to 64-bit in the past couple of months. It seems to me that a lot of companies have been wrestling with this "in this day and age", so plenty of stupid to go around, eh?
Buy it or don't, but whether it's 32-bit or 64-bit (and trust me, I'm on the bandwagon to get 64-bit), there's not another program that does what it does.
John
Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 12TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 12TB SATA
This thread was started in 2014, before we had support for jbridge ($10). So it contains dated information, before BiaB worked seemelessly with 64 bit plugins. Customers were confused reading this thread, because they were reading information from 2014.
Feel free to continue the discussion in the continued thread above, posting current information.
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MIDI Styles Set 92: Look Ma! More MIDI 15: Latin Jazz
MIDI SuperTracks Set 46: Piano & Organ
Instrumental Studies Set 24: Groovin' Blues Soloing
Artist Performance Set 19: Songs with Vocals 9
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Artist Performance Set 20: Songs with Vocals 10
RealDrums Stems Set 10: Groovin' Sticks
SynthMaster Sounds & Styles Set 2 (sounds & styles with audio demos)
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