>> I change from ST2 to 3 then save the file, open back up and guess what! NO saving going on, it defaults back to ST2.
If you are using a BB style that has hard coded Hi-Q sounds, then those are hard coded to use SampleTank 2 (ST2). So if you load the style again, you'd get ST2.
============ Technical information about how plugin settings (TGS) are stored and loaded from styles ************** This all occurs in the c:\bb\DX settings folder. In that folder, you'd see TGS files - these are called "groups" and store settings for a specific VST setup. You can load or save groups (TGS files) in the VST plugin dialog in BB (There are buttons alled Load Group and Save Group).
So a BB style might be hard coded to use "Hi-Q 050 01 Strings, Ensemble, Movie SampleTank.tgs" and then BB loads c:\bb\DX Settings\Hi-Q 050 01 Strings, Ensemble, Movie SampleTank.tgs when that style is loaded. That would be hard coded to SampleTank2.
Note that you can edit a style with the StyleMaker to change these assisngments, including loading your own TGS files (StyleMaker-Misc-More and then set or clear the TGS settings that you want =================================
Peter hit send before I did so to ADD to Peters comments NOT about Hi-Q in the specific, but in the more general sans Hi-q discussion
and Peter can (should) correct me if wrong but...
And this is not the answer you want, but saving the song, even if you save it using "Save with Patches & Harmony" will only do just that: save the PATCHES (names and GM number 1- 128) - not the individual VSTi synthesizers settings.
If when you open a song and the VSTi is ST 2 then that is because ST2 is your default VSTi. If you set ST3 as your default VSTi then every song you open will play THROUGH it (until you change the VSTi) - ONCE you select the instruments (patches) for each BIAB instrument in the 1-16 parts inside ST3, or from BIAB using a custom built ST3 .pat file.
Now if your VSTi (or even external HW synth) is a GM "compliant" synth (e.g., Coyte WT, Forte DXi, Cakewalk TTS-1 or HW like a Sound Canvas or Ketron) then the patches you saved with the song will load up in the VSTi and play.
ST2 and ST 3 ARE NOT, and never were, GM compliant. And for lack of a better way to say this: BIAB IS essentially GM based, it thinks GM ,it numbers based on GM.
Using ST2 with the Omni Synth 2 add-on for ST2 - ST2 was 98% GM. The ST2 drum part, part 10 (ch 10), still had to have a "kit" selected manually by the user even after running the provided OmniSynth 2 "GM script".
ST3 doesn’t have a GM add-on yet, like Omni synth 2, and might NEVER have one given how ST3 functions.
Yes you can load Omni Synth 2 (import Legacy) patches/instruments into the various ST3 parts but the GM script thing is useless in ST3. ST3 just doesn't work like ST2.
Frankly, I think ST3 will end up like with Kontakt 5. That is, ST3 will never have a similar pseudo-GM compliant add-on like Omni Synth 2 was for ST 2.
Kontakt can't be used as GM module either. Even with the SR Infinite Instruments Player and the Ominsoundz 2 - add on for it. It is just a GM sound set not a GM instrument. You can simply plug in GM sounds into the 16 parts in Kontakt but the patches won’t change ,on say part 3, just because you send a program change.
Larry
Last edited by Larry Kehl; 01/12/1502:41 PM.
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So I still do not see a direct answer to the question. My experience says the answer is "it can not be done". Am I missing something.
BIAB – 2025, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, Motu Audio Express 6x6 - My SoundCloud (Tip: No need to create a SC account to hear music - just hit ESC ).
Couldn't delete this post were I gave bum info so changed answer to the correct one
Larry
Last edited by Larry Kehl; 01/14/1504:49 AM.
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Larry, that is my understanding also. GM synth only for BIAB. Ya, you can setup and use a non GM, but you really don't want to unless you export to audio.
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Peter thank you very much for showing me this way of doing it, I am honored you took the time to teach me such an easy method.
Have to admit I have no idea what this "easy method is". Looks like you are imbedding this ST3 callout in the style. No expert here, but I have used ST3 in my DAW for years, but nothing in this thread makes any immediate sense. How about a video??
BIAB – 2025, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, Motu Audio Express 6x6 - My SoundCloud (Tip: No need to create a SC account to hear music - just hit ESC ).
A decade is a looooooooong time to be patient and I do appreciate the time Peter took to help me understand some of the ways to get around in his program.
The jbridge support has helped bridge, "pun intended," a few things that were best left to power users.
I for one wrapped a few of my 64bit plugs today making them 32 compatible with BIAB and have found the Save Banks, Save Groups, Save Presets some of the best custom options around.
Once you find your way around the jungle Opt's it shows just how long this program has been evolving, it's not perfect, but if I can load Zebra2 and have my CPU only running at 6% I'm a very happy camper!
Well Larry you DUMMY! You need to correct yourself (public flogging now required)
The VSTi/DXi CAN be saved with BIAB song, with a caveat, and BIAB will open that song with that patch(s) and that VSTi/DXi (s).
This is great news and has great possibilities outside of BIAB, that is RB if it were EXTENDED (still playing with that one).
Following Peters description and DA's example - the requisite .tgs file must be created (using "save group" in the VSTi/DXi window)
EDIT
This does carry over to RealBand, but at least for me, it is intermittent. I'm still trying to see why sometimes the VSTi/DXi info is there in RB and why sometimes it is not.(?)
and if read post earlier I had incorrect info on TGS file naming - so "never mind," he said removing foot from mouth for 3rd time.
Last edited by Larry Kehl; 01/14/1508:48 AM.
Win10Pro,i9,64GB,2TBSSD+20TBHDDs,1080TI,BIAB'24,Scarlett18i8,Montage7,Fusion 8HD,QS8,Integra7,XV5080,QSR,SC-8850,SPLAT,FL21&others,Komp.14,IK suite&others, just a guitar player-AXE FX III &FM9T, FishmanTP, MIDIGuitar2, GK2/3'sw/GI20
OK, the fog is beginning to clear. If there is a "simple naming convention" which permits BIAB to reload all of ST3 settings, that is indeed good news.
Unfortunately, I have not moved to v2015. So as I understand it the jbridge will not work and so ST3 is not an option in BIAB for now.
BIAB – 2025, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, Motu Audio Express 6x6 - My SoundCloud (Tip: No need to create a SC account to hear music - just hit ESC ).
Larry believe it or not the naming convention had nothing to do with my "private probably non searchable saved files," they opened up just the same.
But I did try something that I was curious about, I took the SampleTank3 64bit and ran it through jbridge to change it to a 32bit and opened it up in 2015 BIAB and it worked the same as adding it as a 64bit straight from the Programs/VST folder but with a 3.32 number instead of 3. Put that in your pipe and smoke it!
I wanted to find out if 2014 had the ability to open as a 32bit wrapped but 2015 has some actual host stuff going on in the processes.
So I would conclude, that BIAB 2015 is going to change the speed and creative thinking process going forward and remove the bit war barriers we once new.
Larry believe it or not the naming convention had nothing to do with my "private probably non searchable saved files," they opened up just the same. ...
DA...
What a strange day. After you said you don't have to save .tgs with prefix Hi-Q it wouldn't work here.
So before "foot in mouth" disease hits me again - I rebooted PC (for grins) and NOW you are right, any name I use for .TGS loads with song, uhmmm??? I hate time of day errors/differences.
For record: after saving a TGS and SONG - I leave BIAB, re-open it, then reset the default synth to anything and reset all the other slots to default. So I was always starting with a different synth slate than one in .TGS file. Then open song and there it is (Kontakt, or Dim Pro, or Mr Ray 73, ST2, ST3, or whatever I saved) but this does NOT work for Default Synth slot ONLY the individual parts (at least for me - another time of day error?).
Would you verify (or not) that you cannot force change the default synth that way. That is:
- Load a synth into the Default Synth slot and save TGS - Then the save song. - Then CHANGE Default Synth to any other different VSTi/DXI you have. - Now close BIAB and reopen it with any song but not the one saved. - Finally reopen saved song - what is in the Default Synth slot: the one in TGS file or the one you had when you closed BIAB?
Thx Great work
Larry
Last edited by Larry Kehl; 01/14/1510:24 AM.
Win10Pro,i9,64GB,2TBSSD+20TBHDDs,1080TI,BIAB'24,Scarlett18i8,Montage7,Fusion 8HD,QS8,Integra7,XV5080,QSR,SC-8850,SPLAT,FL21&others,Komp.14,IK suite&others, just a guitar player-AXE FX III &FM9T, FishmanTP, MIDIGuitar2, GK2/3'sw/GI20
Yep try again tomorrow because as you can read at least for me
First it wouldn't do A then it would, then it wouldn't do B then it would, ..
And this is not even something I really care about or need it to do. Obviously, all these years and I never even tried it - becasue I didn't need it.
Win10Pro,i9,64GB,2TBSSD+20TBHDDs,1080TI,BIAB'24,Scarlett18i8,Montage7,Fusion 8HD,QS8,Integra7,XV5080,QSR,SC-8850,SPLAT,FL21&others,Komp.14,IK suite&others, just a guitar player-AXE FX III &FM9T, FishmanTP, MIDIGuitar2, GK2/3'sw/GI20
Well new day and as far as BIAB is concerned everything is (almost) as I (we) left it. I was starting to lose my mind yesterday and now I know why things seemed strange. I was testing using a different synth (VSTi) per SLOT - to test - and assuming a "save group" saved them ALL!.
When you save the TGS it's not saving the ENTIRE bank of ALL the synth slots, it is saving one, and ONLY ONE, slot selection - the one you have selected when you save "group."
Just like HELP file says (duh!! - see pic) or as we use to say where I worked for 21 years "RTFQ."
However, the "Default Synth" slot and saving TGS's for it, as you've seen, has its own behavior. I won’t even go into all the permutations of assigning VSTi's to various parts and then saving the various TGS's and songs and seeing what happens in BIAB or RB when loading that BIAB song into RB or back into BIAB .
But I did find a glitch in BIAB that appears to make RB swap VSTi's on the drum and piano parts if using .TGS files for them, with a ripple impact for latter instruments/parts. It seems to be a special case(s0, but swaps in RB nonetheless can occur and is what caused my head hurting issues yesterday.
I sent PG support a long email with details, pictures, and song file, will report when I hear back.
we should now probably delete this thread because I have totally gotten most of it wrong and confused folks more than needed
Larry
Win10Pro,i9,64GB,2TBSSD+20TBHDDs,1080TI,BIAB'24,Scarlett18i8,Montage7,Fusion 8HD,QS8,Integra7,XV5080,QSR,SC-8850,SPLAT,FL21&others,Komp.14,IK suite&others, just a guitar player-AXE FX III &FM9T, FishmanTP, MIDIGuitar2, GK2/3'sw/GI20
I assume I can set up a song with a ST3 piano (if I have the jbridge) and a CoyteForte Guitar and Realtrack Sax and RealDrums and it will all play fine. Now if I save the song, close BIAB and then open it again, load the song and hit play, will it still sound the same?
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