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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 824
Expert
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OP
Expert
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 824 |
An interesting question came up that caused me to investigate the effect of putting either anticipation or delay entries in the "Tick Offset" box in the "Notation Window Options".
The BIAB note about this feature says that it "Allows you to display the notes ahead or behind the actual location of the notes.
For example, the notation of jazz swing is often improved by an offset setting of about -5 because jazz music is typically played a little after the beat.”
I do not know that I agree with that statement about 'swing' being improved by "playing a little after the beat" because my school of teaching says that "pushing the beat feels not only natural but correct in jazz". Also I have always found and been taught that for rhythm you can achieve maximum swing by having the bass pushing and the drums dead set in the middle of the beat. And frankly that is what I hear from the really good jazz groups. The exceptions to this might be the Basie band where tunes like "Lil' Darling have the sections playing behind the beat. But I don't hear the rhythm section doing the same thing. The rhythm section in the Basie band is usually dead-set in the centre of the beat.
And that requirement of having only one or some instrument pushing or delaying is where I now have some questions. This is not the first time we have talked about this 'anticipation and delay' thing on this forum and I swear the advice I was given at the time said it was possible to set up a different degree of push for different instruments. I have not experimented with this for a long time because I have never had a big problem with 'swing' since RealTracks were introduced. However, I find that you now cannot have different settings for Base, Piano, Drums, Guitar, Strings, Melody & Soloist as far as Tick Offset is concerned. If you put an entry in 'Notation Windows Options' for Bass it carries through into the other instrument Windows.
So, am I dreaming about thinking you could once do this? I really think it was/is a good feature! I even have a setting of '5' marked for the Bass in my typical options entries folder that I have been keeping since I first had BIAB.
Is it possible that you can achieve the same single instrument, or group of instruments, anticipation or delay alteration somewhere else in the BIAB settings?
I am also puzzled by the “Auto Set Tick Offset” box which says, “If enabled, Band-in-a-Box will automatically determine the tick offset by analysing the notes on the track.” I would ask which track? And what criteria does it use to make these decisions?
I am aware that you can also push chords by 1/8 and 1/16 but I do not think this feature gives the fine degree of control for which I was looking.
Grah Jive Talk
"Don't worry baby, they'll swing their arses off."
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 824
Expert
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OP
Expert
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 824 |
I 'bumped' this topic because no one commented and I really do want to know the answer to some questions, even if you do not agree with my idea of how push affects swing.
Q1. Using the 'Notation Windows Options', notation setting 'Tick Offset', is it possible to have only one or some instrument pushing or delaying? For instance I would like to set the Bass to play say '5' in front (anticipate) of the beat. But no other instruments.
I thought at one time I was able to do that but, if you apply that setting in the Bass notation setting, it now carries through into all the other instruments. Maybe I am wrong but I was sure somebody once gave me that advice. Certainly there are other settings which can be different in the Notation Windows Options, but not the Tick Offset.
Q2. Regarding the “Auto Set Tick Offset” (Under the Tick Offset), which says, “If enabled, Band-in-a-Box will automatically determine the tick offset by analysing the notes on the track.” The use of singular 'track' seems to confirm my original thoughts in Q1 about the function but I think we are really talking tracks? So importantly, what criteria does it use to make these decisions?
Q3. Do these offset settings apply to RealTracks as well as midi?
Or perhaps you could refer me to a section in the user manual or frequently asked question, because I have been unable to find out anything about these functions. I am probably looking in the wrong place or using an incorrect search term.
Thanks.
Grah Jive Talk
"Don't worry baby, they'll swing their arses off."
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 19,839
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 19,839 |
Hi Graham, Here's my take on some of your questions. I'm not absolutely certain of all my answers and am more than happy to be corrected. Q1. Using the 'Notation Windows Options', notation setting 'Tick Offset', is it possible to have only one or some instrument pushing or delaying? For instance I would like to set the Bass to play say '5' in front (anticipate) of the beat. But no other instruments. If you right-click on a track, there is an option that will allow you to set an off-set for that individual track. Whether this is for midi or midi and Realtracks, I do not know. I'm sure that if you experiment a little, it will be easy to find out.  Q2. Regarding the “Auto Set Tick Offset” (Under the Tick Offset), which says, “If enabled, Band-in-a-Box will automatically determine the tick offset by analysing the notes on the track.” The use of singular 'track' seems to confirm my original thoughts in Q1 about the function but I think we are really talking tracks? So importantly, what criteria does it use to make these decisions? As far as I'm aware, because "Auto-set tick off-set" is located under the notation options, I have always assumed (rightly or wrong) that it only applies to what is notated. To me, this suggests that it's for midi only. I know it occurs on the Melody track because I have often had to adjust notes that were entered when tick off-set was active. Whether or not it happens to the other tracks, I haven't investigated. Q3. Do these offset settings apply to RealTracks as well as midi? See Q1 answer above. Hope these thoughts help, Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2025
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 7,420
PG Music Staff
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PG Music Staff
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 7,420 |
In addition to what Noel said,
The setting (tick offset) in the Notation window options is only a visual setting. The idea behind it is that musicians don't typically play right on the beat, even though it sounds that way. If you listen to a MIDI composition that has all the notes exactly on the beat, it doesn't sound 'human', and that is part of the reason. Depending on the style and instrument musicians may play slightly ahead or behind the beat (by milliseconds). If the notation window was interpreting everything that was played literally, it might make for some messy notation. The setting applies to any track with notation, but is typically relevant for the soloist and melody.
The track "right-click" setting that Noel pointed out in fact is a per-track audio setting that doesn't affect the notation. In addition, the setting can be made in the style itself (Stylemaker - misc - more..) We can adjust the setting based on the instrument and feel of the style.
Andrew
PG Music Inc.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 824
Expert
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OP
Expert
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 824 |
Thank guys. I understand that difference and will now see what my ideas of push produce.
Grah Jive Talk
"Don't worry baby, they'll swing their arses off."
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 19,839
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 19,839 |
Thanks, Andrew. I appreciate the extra insight you've given me.
Regards,
Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2025
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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New RealTracks Released with Band-in-a-Box 2025!
We’ve expanded the Band-in-a-Box® RealTracks library with 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 449-467) across Jazz, Blues, Funk, World, Pop, Rock, Country, Americana, and Praise & Worship—featuring your most requested styles!
Jazz, Blues & World (Sets 449–455):
These RealTracks includes “Soul Jazz” with Neil Swainson (bass), Mike Clark (drums), Charles Treadway (organ), Miles Black (piano), and Brent Mason (guitar). Enjoy “Requested ’60s” jazz, classic acoustic blues with Colin Linden, and more of our popular 2-handed piano soloing. Plus, a RealTracks first—Tango with bandoneon, recorded in Argentina!
Rock & Pop (Sets 456–461):
This collection includes Disco, slap bass ‘70s/‘80s pop, modern and ‘80s metal with Andy Wood, and a unique “Songwriter Potpourri” featuring Chinese folk instruments, piano, banjo, and more. You’ll also find a muted electric guitar style (a RealTracks first!) and “Producer Layered Guitar” styles for slick "produced" sound.
Country, Americana & Praise (Sets 462–467):
We’ve added new RealTracks across bro country, Americana, praise & worship, vintage country, and songwriter piano. Highlights include Brent Mason (electric guitar), Eddie Bayers (drums), Doug Jernigan (pedal steel), John Jarvis (piano), Glen Duncan (banjo, mandolin & fiddle), Mike Harrison (electric bass) and more—offering everything from modern sounds to heartfelt Americana styles
Check out all the 202 New RealTracks (in sets 456-467)
And, if you are looking for more, the 2025 49-PAK (for $49) includes an additional 20 RealTracks with exciting new sounds and genre-spanning styles. Enjoy RealTracks firsts like Chinese instruments (guzheng & dizi), the bandoneon in an authentic Argentine tango trio, and the classic “tic-tac” baritone guitar for vintage country.
You’ll also get slick ’80s metal guitar from Andy Wood, modern metal with guitarist Nico Santora, bass player Nick Schendzielos, and drummer Aaron Stechauner, more praise & worship, indie-folk, modern/bro country with Brent Mason, and “Songwriter Americana” with Johnny Hiland.
Plus, enjoy user-requested styles like Soul Jazz RealDrums, fast Celtic Strathspey guitar, and Chill Hop piano & drums!
The 2025 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2025 49-PAK!
Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Mac!
With your version 2025 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Or upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 33 new RealTracks and 65+ new RealStyles.
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-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 20 new RealStyles.
- Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
- Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano
- Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7
- Playable RealTracks Set 4
- RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark
- SynthMaster Sounds and Styles (with audio demos)
- 128 GM MIDI Patch Audio Demos.
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyles,
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
- Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster
- Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8
- RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®!
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
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Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Windows!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: VST3 Plugin Support
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® now includes support for VST3 plugins, alongside VST and AU. Use them with MIDI or audio tracks for even more creative possibilities in your music production.
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Macs®: VST3 Plugin Support
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: Using VST3 Plugins
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