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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2006
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Hello All,
I wanted to make a change to my Lead-In settings and went to Help and typed in 'lead in'
No response. Double-checked spelling and retyped 'lead in'. Still no response.
Finally found it and checked on the 'lead-in' option and made the changes...
I failed to put in the hyphen.
Now I can't figure out how to change 8 bars per line to 4. In the help menu, I type in 'bars', 'bar' using both the index and topic search but no results.
So I consulted my 2014 BB User's Guide, but BB no longer has an index in the back of the book.
Now I'm looking for my 2012 manual. lol
Percy
Last edited by percy; 02/10/15 12:18 PM.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Open the pdf file user manual (which is different from the help file) and do a text search.
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 12TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 12TB SATA BB2026/UMC204HD&404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/Notion/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com (under rehosting/construction)
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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In this case, here's the fish:
Preferences, Notation, Bars/Screen
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Gentlemen,
Thanks for the quick responses; just what I needed.
Percy
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Love the people at PG Music, love BIAB, but the documentation could be improved, primarily through comprehensive indexing. I have over a period of years suggested that that particular job be handed over to specialists. I cannot understand why a program of this depth and excellence is not accompanied by thorough documentation.
By the way, one of you just saved me $15. I was going to order the 2015 manual specifically for the index. We gotta play nice here, so I can't tell you how frustrating this is. Yeah, everybody wants 64-bit, better GUI, simplified menus, more than 255 bars, Rewire, the lot, but if we can't figure out how to use what we have ON OUR OWN (not everyone is a forum member), what's the point?
Some of those other things may not be possible, but this is.
Last edited by Ryszard; 02/11/15 12:44 AM.
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Can't (wouldn't) try to speak for John, but I think his suggestion might be to do an electronic search of the entire PDF manual rather than rely on the index. If you don't know what something is called, you may have trouble finding the correct index entry, as Percy demonstrated (since searching the Help file is really just searching an index).
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Hello Ryszard,
I purchased the 2014 BB User's Guide in 2013 and as stated- no index. Also, BB is cramming in all the new info over the years in essentially the same spiral-bound book manual from over 10 years ago and it is tedious to read.
Don't know about 2105.
Mac, and I and others discussed the merits of RTFM many years ago. I would give the manuals a good read-through before running BB or PT or RB.
I guess even more users nowadays hate to RTFM.
Time for me to get the manuals printed at the local Office Max.
Percy
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I amended my harsh statement from yesterday and instead would like to say this. The key to any reference system is comprehensive indexing. By comprehensive I mean, among other things, that it should contain alternate terminology, or be smart enough to know that "lead in" might mean "lead-in." The manuals contain some unique terms. The index should be able to accommodate users unfamiliar with these terms by somehow directing them to the correct entry. Yet even the former index, as limited as it was, has been taken from us. I liked the print version because I could make own entries and changes.
Documentation is a specialized field, as much so as, say, medicine or music. Even though indexing can be accomplished in MS Word, it is not reasonable to expect everyone to have the knowledge—or patience—to learn and use this function. If the online manual was adequate, I probably wouldn't be writing this. But it has its own limitations.
To me this is unacceptable. Has Dr. Gannon lost sight of the depth and complexity of the depth and complexity of this wonderful program? Is this a case of losing sight of the forest because of the trees? I am certain that he can make BIAB tap dance. So can veteran users. But take pity on the newcomer. Please consider farming this essential task out to specialists, and devote yourself to what you do best.
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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In my opinion the manual is so bad that no newcomer should ever be asked to read it, probably applies to experienced users as well.
Searching for things I find usually brings up totally unrelated stuff.
If I was a new user and asked to read a bit of the manual to get a feel for biab, I think it would put me off buying biab for life.
Musiclover
Last edited by musiclover; 02/11/15 06:35 AM.
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This has been a peeve of mine for years and not just with PGM. Ever tried searching Help in Word? Software developers are mostly kids in their teens and twenties and of course they already know all this stuff and assume users know the correct terminology. Trying to search without knowing that terminology is a real pain.
With music all the software uses terms from a professional recording studio but they don't know that. Somebody notices there are volume spikes in an audio track and wants to tame them. How does he frame that question if he's never heard of a compressor or limiter? That is what has to be addressed in these Help files.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Absolutely right, Bob. Not just How To, but What To Do.
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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When we were writing standard operating procedures (SOPs) we would have someone completely unfamiliar with the procedure or equipment read them and try to run the equipment. We would be with them to take notes so we could refine the SOPs.
When I was writing Lotus 123 or Excel macros I would do the same; that is having someone unfamiliar with the process try it out.
PGMusic should do the same. Have an inexperienced person try to read the docs and then use the program.
When one is so familiar with the program or process it is difficult to write a good manual or procedure for a beginner. Been there done that!
PS - these statements are true for many manuals and not just PGMusic. Trying to find the correct terminology and/or procedure in most all software docs can be a PITA.
The bumper sticker said "I'm a veterinarian, therefore I can drive like an animal".
Suddenly I realized how many proctologists are on the road.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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As a computer science prof, I employed a similar practice. I would have my students conduct what we called the "any idiot test" on their final project. This required finding an idiot (defined as, say, someone walking down the hall) and having them sit down at the computer as we observed what happens.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Great points Mario.
I think one of the biggest problems faced by the product documentation is as a direct result of its extensive evolution.
Things have become disconnected, disjointed. Items that have become mainstream functions are listed under a certain year's new features. The only time that new features are new is when they are new.
The current Help has topics called "New features" dating back to 2004, one of them showing when the program went 32 bit. This is just extraneous, unnecessary fill now, and is absolutely no longer relevant.
A lot of tidying up would go a long way, and use an outsider to evaluate and provide feedback.
Yep
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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As a computer science prof, I employed a similar practice. I would have my students conduct what we called the "any idiot test" on their final project. This required finding an idiot (defined as, say, someone walking down the hall) and having them sit down at the computer as we observed what happens.
Just down the road from you we call it making it gorilla proof 
The bumper sticker said "I'm a veterinarian, therefore I can drive like an animal".
Suddenly I realized how many proctologists are on the road.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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So ok. Here is a real opportunity for someone. Write the BIAB for dummies book and sell it to the publishers. I notice groove3 now has a video on BIAB. I have asked for this for years myself. Would seem someone would come up with it.
Dell 610 dual Monitor, win 7-10, Sonar Plat, ProTools 10 & 11, Reaper 4, BIAB/real Band 2022, Easy Drummer, Superior Drummer, Kontact Essentials, Personnel Orchestra, Korg Legacy Analog & Digital
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Earl, this has been considered by some heavy hitters here. Problem is that BIAB is a moving target, what with updates, upgrades, and patches being implemented so frequently that it would almost have to be done by PG Music (which we have ruled out in this discussion) or their designated agent.
Pat Marr and I discussed this during his brief visit, and he brought up something very interesting. The US military and many, many tech firms provide documentation in three-ring binders and numbered in such a way that updates to their manuals can be issued as individual pages that can be inserted into the existing binders while maintaining continuity.
Taken a step further, these could be made available as downloadable pages which could be printed, three-hole punched, and inserted by individual users. This way PG Music would not be responsible for printing or distribution, just creating and appropriately numbering the inserts. I would still like an index, but a well-organized current table if contents would serve nearly as well.
As before, I think this should be set up and maintained by a third-party specialist. If said entity had permission to post to PGM's website, the entire task could be lifted from their shoulders, leaving them free to concentrate exclusively on Job One: Producing and selling their products.
Richard
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Hello All,
A week after my original post, while in Notation Mode, at the far-end of the window, I noticed a little icon with the number 4 in it.
Clicked on, and was offered the option to change the number of bars per line, which was the topic of my original post.
It was there all along. Mea Culpa.
Percy
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I agree with what Ryszard said about the company needing to do the extensive rewrite of the documentation. Part of my day job is keeping my team's SOPs current and while it is nowhere near the complexity of a product like BiaB, it does take a great amount of effort to have and keep the documentation excellent and thorough.
However, one approach the company could consider is to analyze and re-define the most efficient and logical orderings of the current information and features with any given section meta-tagged with the alternate terms, etc. Then as has been stated, contract a documentation company to pull it all together to be distributed as a comprehensively linked PDF. I bought a library of books from an author several years ago that was actually like one big PDF and you navigated it like a web browser. Or, maybe just make the information available as a subdomain of the website.
Just my .02
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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In my opinion the manual is so bad that no newcomer should ever be asked to read it, probably applies to experienced users as well.
Searching for things I find usually brings up totally unrelated stuff.
If I was a new user and asked to read a bit of the manual to get a feel for biab, I think it would put me off buying biab for life.
Musiclover +1
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
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Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® users: Build 904 now available!
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