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Here is a youtube video I thought might be of interest to some of you songwriters out there on determining song chord progressions. [video:youtube] https://youtu.be/fXIEmMDwc7E[/video]
My TunesPsalm 57:7 My heart, O God, is steadfast, my heart is steadfast; I will sing and make music.
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eddie1261
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This is really good stuff, and once again, I will risk sounding arrogant as I say that the Circle of 5ths is Music 101 and everybody who plays should know it, and have learned it before learned to play an instrument, or at the very least concurrently. This is why I tick everybody off when I tell them to learn MUSIC before they learn SONGS.
Start with whole whole half whole whole whole half (the steps in a major scale) and the 4th, the 5th,, the 7th... all of that explains itself. That formula works no matter what key you start on, and it is the cinder block foundation upon which a music house is built.
That Circle of 5ths chart has been around forever. I learned that at 4yrs 10 months of age, and my teacher would not allow me to touch a piano (I DID have a molded plastic keyboard mock up) until I knew that stuff COLD. That and when he pointed to a note on a scale I had to point to the corresponding key.
And 59 years later, I still say "Learn music. THEN learn songs."
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I'm in a fitness protection program. I'm been hiding from exercise.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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While there are a number of excellent books on this, but for me, How to Play the Piano Despite Years of Lessons was the book I'd been looking for to make harmony and chordal progressions make sense. It really drives in how the circle of fourths/fifths can be used to analyze chord progressions in songs.
-- David Cuny My virtual singer development blogVocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?BiaB 2025 | Windows 11 | Reaper | Way too many VSTis.
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Without knowing the Circles of 5ths and 4ths it's hard to play bass on the accordion.
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eddie1261
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Without knowing the Circles of 5ths and 4ths it's hard to play bass on the accordion. I LEARNED those circles on an accordion. 5ths go up, 4ths go down.
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So did I. Much easier than on a piano.
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Laptop: i5-2410M, 4 GB mem, Win 10 Pro, BIAB 2017; RB 2017 - latest build
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eddie1261
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So did I. Much easier than on a piano. As I got older though I had to switch to piano because my beer kept sliding off the accordion.
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As I got older though I had to switch to piano because my beer kept sliding off the accordion. 
Desktop; i7-2600k, 8 GB mem., Win 10 Pro, BIAB 2017; RB 2017 - latest build
Laptop: i5-2410M, 4 GB mem, Win 10 Pro, BIAB 2017; RB 2017 - latest build
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I caught some flak on this forum a few years ago when I said one should have knowledge of theory and harmony and not let BIAB do everything for you. It's easy to tell on the forum who has some musical knowledge and who doesn't. Ray
Asus Q500A i7 Win 10 64 bit 8GB ram 750 HD 15.5" touch screen, BIAB 2017, Casio PX 5s, Xw P1, Center Point Stereo SS V3 and EWI 4000s.
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eddie1261
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I am 100% with you Ray. True that BIAB is CAPABLE of doing everything for you, but you can rally get to the "film at 11" stages of your song when you can intelligently put in the chord progression in one pass and know rhythm well enough to choose a style without running through 50 of them. Knowing a swing from a shuffle from a samba.....
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RAY: >>>I caught some flak on this forum a few years ago when I said one should have knowledge of theory and harmony and not let BIAB do everything for you.>>>>
ME: I agree that anyone who wants to be a musician should know theory and harmony. BiaB can be an enormously valuable tool to get there. For example, I have been able to learn about chord subs using BiaB that I did not have the chops to play myself.
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That's a good one, maybe Eddie would still play the accordion.
I only wonder how and how often he has practiced the passing out part...
Desktop; i7-2600k, 8 GB mem., Win 10 Pro, BIAB 2017; RB 2017 - latest build
Laptop: i5-2410M, 4 GB mem, Win 10 Pro, BIAB 2017; RB 2017 - latest build
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everyone should learn whatever they want! if you wanna study music theory and harmony then go for it! or, if you just wanna have fun making music and could care less about theory and harmony then by all means skip it! personally, I have lots of gaps in my knowledge of music theory but as long as I can do what I want without understanding the details I am just fine with that! 
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eddie1261
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personally, I have lots of gaps in my knowledge of music theory but as long as I can do what I want without understanding the details I am just fine with that! Now, Eddie the Devil's Advocate wants to ask you this question. Do you think that what you could do would be at all enhanced and expanded if you knew more theory? More complex chord progressions make for more interesting songs. 1-4-5 is fine. A lot of songs are simple 1-4-5 songs. When you learn why and where that 2min and that 6min or that 3maj fit into those songs, imagine the possibilities. Of course you never HAVE to learn more about music, but it's my personal belief that when you stop learning you may as well die. And that means learning about any topic. I am looking for a college that offers and will let me audit wind energy technology classes. It's not like I want to look for a job as a wind technology engineer (at 64). I am just interested in learning how to make wind become AC power. Solar interests me too, as does the European (Denmark was it?) technology that put devices underwater to allow the waves to move large panels and that somehow creates energy. I have never been a "get along as is and never grow mentally" person. And to those who choose that path, you be happy with how you are an you owe no explanation to anybody. The three things I live by: Don't die with your music still inside you. Lead, follow, or get out of my way. Good enough isn't good enough. Disclaimer: This is me and I am not suggesting you should be like me. You focus on being the best you that you can be! Edited by Eddie the anal retentive, OCD Devil's Advocate to correct a spelling error.
Last edited by eddie1261; 09/07/15 04:21 AM.
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personally, I have lots of gaps in my knowledge of music theory but as long as I can do what I want without understanding the details I am just fine with that! Now, Eddie the Devil's Advocate wants to ask you this question. Do you think that what you could do would be at all enhanced and expanded if you knew more theory? Almost certainly! I have never been a "get along as is and never grow mentally" person. And to those who choose that path, you be happy with how you are an you owe no explanation to anybody. I agree 100%! Good enough isn't good enough. "Good enough" is all we ever have! Nothing is ever perfect. We all stop wherever we want on our work, life, music, art, etc. The phrase has a negative connotation but to me it is not negative at all. And every single one of us chooses where "good enough" is on everything we do! Some people might say "good enough" on a song and I think it is awful and needs much more while others may feel the same about my song. It is a very personal thing and there is absolutely no universal standard! Where we run into trouble is when we apply our definition of "good enough" or "not good enough" to the work (or play) of others.
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eddie1261
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Yeah and this is where I continue to regularly set myself up for disappointment. You have NO idea how hard it is to be ADD, OCD, Anal Retentive and a hopeless, relentless overachiever all wrapped in one old grouchy package.....
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