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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Oct 2015
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OP
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Hi, this is my first post to this forum. I have some melodic ideas notated in the treble clef. How can I move them down into the bass clef. My 'bone player is most comfortable reading from the lower clef line.
Short of notating again one note at a time, can I paste a melody into the bass clef?
I'm using an old version of BIAB, c.2008.
peter
pg
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I'm not sure about the features of 2008, but one method that might work is to select all the notes in the Piano Roll view, and drag them down an octave (hold Control while you drag), then they should appear in the notation window transposed down.
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2003
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I forget if this feature was available back in 2008, but I'm pretty sure it was. In the Notation Window, you can transpose (up a major second for Trumpet/Soprano etc... There is an option for Bass clef. Just print the lead sheet with that selected.
This leaves the tune intact.. it is just a NOTATION transpose option as opposed to an ACTUAL transposition.
Last edited by PhillyJazz; 10/20/15 06:45 AM.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Oct 2008
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Hi Peter,
Welcome to the forums.
This might work...
On the very top menu where Opt, Play, Lyrics, Melody, etc., are located, select "Melody" then "Edit Melody Track". From there choose "Utilities" and then "Transpose down and octave". If needed, you could run this a second time. It will probably do the job you need.
Regards,
Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2026
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Oct 2015
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OP
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Wow! Such quick replies!
Thank you all SO much.
Thanks VideoTrack, but I'm not really comfortable with the Piano Roll view. I didn't quite see how to select and drag all the events.
Thanks to PhillyJazz and Noel96 and although I was very familiar with transposing a melody (I play the Bb tenor) I didn't realize that with enough transposition, BIAB will bring all the notes down into the bass clef. Transposing the melody down 12 semitones put melody notes in both clefs, but not like you'd expect. BIAB becomes confused and broke some of the melody line up into new melodic ideas in both clefs. Pretty strange. Maybe it had something to do with where I had set the transition point between clefs.
It took -24 semitones to move the melody properly down into the bass clef.
thanks again to all,
peter
pg
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2003
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Journeyman
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Journeyman
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There should be a "split clefs at" selection. Yeah, I also find going down 12 pisses off my trombone player..  I just manually drop 24 (as I often drop -3 for Eb horns.)
Jan - 12 Core AMD Ryzen 9 3900X
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Aug 2011
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Expert
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Expert
Joined: Aug 2011
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..Thanks VideoTrack, but I'm not really comfortable with the Piano Roll view. I didn't quite see how to select and drag all the events. Right click > Select All Notes Hold the arrow over the middle of a note so you get the up down arrow, now hold the shift key down first then move the notes down watching the green arrow on the keyboard on the side. 
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Oct 2015
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OP
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Thank you for the quick tip on Piano Roll, Solidrock. Now besides the cute sound of pitch descending chromatically down the piano, it's about the same as using Edit Melody - Transpose. I guess you could grab certain passages this way but it's not easy to read these event bars as individual notes.
What else would you find Piano Roll useful for? I've never used it.
pete in oakland, ca.
pg
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2000
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Pete -
Piano roll is actually a pretty standard method of entering MIDI data into most DAW's. BIAB allows for both Piano Roll (which uses horizontal bars along a vertical piano keyboard to represent the notes and their durations) and Note Roll interface (which uses actual musical notation, but also includes an optional pseudo piano roll to show duration and note velocity).
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I don't think there was ever a time with Band-in-a-Box when you could not easily produce a useable lead sheet in bass clef. Take it from a trombone player who also produces lead sheets for his band from a single file without having to make time-consuming changes to that file. The whole idea of using BiaB for this purpose is to do it quickly. So, whilst the Piano Roll has some very useful features, I do not think it is practical for producing bass clef versions of lead sheets.
The best way is to use 'Notation Window Options', 'Transpose Options', 'Trombone (bass clef)' or 'Melody on Bass Clef -12'.
As far as trombone players are concerned, these days we tend to use a much higher range and I much prefer to have my lead sheets in the same octave as the trumpet player. Yes, that means that most trombone parts have nearly all of their notes on ledger lines. Most of us play at least up to D6, which requires 5 ledger lines. Have a look at any pro standard big band 1st or 2nd trombone part and you will see what I mean. Yes, it takes up less room if you use the 'Melody on Bass Clef -12' and that is fine if you are only using the melody line as a guide for solos. If it is a line you will be playing, most of us prefer to have it shown correctly on the ledger lines above the staff.
When I am producing arrangement parts or leadsheets for my band, I need three parts in concert (piano, guitar and drums), three parts in Bb (trumpet, clarinet and tenor sax), one in Eb (alto sax), and two in bass clef (trombone and bass) - sometimes only a chord chart for the bass. It takes me about 15 minutes to make the necessary changes in the Notation Window Options and Print Options window (sometimes the Leadsheet windows) and print the parts, but you do have to keep your wits about you because there are several alterations to settings you have to make. Such as positioning lyrics and chords, or the -3 for Eb horns that Philly Jazz mentioned. There are still a few notations items in BiaB that need improving (particularly in bass clef) but it gets better all the time and it is by far the fastest way to produce leadsheets or small arrangements for your band. I construct proper harmonised parts when necessary using the BiaB Harmony feature and freezing the parts on the Soloist and String tracks so they are there to be used at some later stage.
Last edited by Graham Martin; 10/21/15 12:53 PM.
Grah Jive Talk
"Don't worry baby, they'll swing their arses off."
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Oct 2015
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OP
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Hello Graham,
Thank you SO much for this tip. Good Lord, trombone transposition is sitting right there for the asking! This is just great. There are so many things buried in BIAB windows and menus.
If you and other trombonists are playing so many lines in those upper ranges, wouldn't it just be easier to get used to the treble clef?
By the way, the hightest trombone note I've seen was in a Classical Music score, bar 9 of the first of Alban Berg's Three Pieces for Orchestra, Op. 6. Or is that not considered so high anymore? It sounds incredibly difficult to me.
pete
pg
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Oct 2015
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OP
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Sorry, without the score being readily available online, let me just say that the stratospheric high not for trombone note in the Berg Op. 6 I think was an Eb above the 'C' above middle 'C'. Would that be Eb5 or Eb6?
And you have to come in right on that note, no passage leading up to it.
pg
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