I understand how to change the backing track key from concert to Bb in order to have my Tenor sax play in tune. I would like proper instructions on how to do the reverse without transposing the chords.
As it stands, I enter the intended chords one note below what I intend to play in order to have what I intend to play appear when the key is changed and the entered chords transposed after selecting the "chord display" button. That's taking the back door to get to the front yard though.
I am entering chords from my Jazz Patterns book and Jamey Abersold books and would like to enter them as written and have the backing track play in the appropriate key for Tenor sax.
I tried once entering the chords and changing the signature key from concert to Bb on the BIAB dash wihtout transpose but it did not turn out the way I expected.
If someone knows the proper direct approach please guide me.
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That's the area that I goto for the forward process, by setting the default concert selection, as well as changing the dashboard Key to read the Key of C, then I proceed to the same drop down menu after entering my chords one note lower (concert, that changes to intrument (Bb) to get the track to play in the proper key, actually so that I'm playing in proper key relative to the track. The problem is I have to enter the chords one note below what I intend to play before doing the above.
What I want to do is just the opposite process but with the same in-key result as if the Tenor sax was concert and I was changing everything to be in key with it.
Basically type in my chords and then press a button to bring the track into proper key with my entered chords and sax. I want the track to dance to my tune.
As you can see, that drop down menu does not give an option for non transposing of the entered chords.
Yes, I understand what you mean. There are a number of horn players in the Forum, one of them may know if there's an answer.
Incidentally, welcome to the neighborhood!
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I play some Bb instruments and I've answered this question a few times in the past. Where we sometimes miscommunicated was based on exactly how the song was entered.
You said you are reading an Abersold Bb book. Did you enter the song exactly as in the book, and did not use BIAB to transpose? If yes, I can talk you through it. One other question: did you enter the key of the song into BIAB? Or just leave it as C, the default? And, what is the key of the song as it appears in the fake book? If you can answer these questions, I or others will give you the steps so it looks and works correctly.
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I play some Bb instruments and I've answered this question a few times in the past. Where we sometimes miscommunicated was based on exactly how the song was entered.
You said you are reading an Abersold Bb book. Did you enter the song exactly as in the book, and did not use BIAB to transpose? If yes, I can talk you through it. One other question: did you enter the key of the song into BIAB? Or just leave it as C, the default? And, what is the key of the song as it appears in the fake book? If you can answer these questions, I or others will give you the steps so it looks and works correctly.
Hello Matt and thanks for your offer to help. The subject does tend to get a bit merky if not careful.
To make it a little clearer, the Jamey Abersold series is no real problem considering it also lists the chords in concert key which can be entered as such and then transposed into the appropriate chords for the Tenor sax.
The Jazz Patterns book is in concert only and it's important for me to be able to enter and keep the chords in BIAB as typed in correspondence with what is in the book in the event I have a track playing in the absence of BIAB and am reading from the book.
Also if I decide to enter various chords and scales I am having trouble with independent of any book, I need to be able to have BIAB play in the proper key relative to Tenor.
Initially I set everything to default concert, including the key signature next to the Tempo on the permanent BIAB dash which was set to "C". I would then enter my chords as written in the book, click on the key signature and select change key signature to Bb without transposing the chords. I only tried it once or twice but noted the track was not in the proper key when playing.
I arrived at the chord display icon after further reading and although I could not keep the entered chords unchanged when transposing, it did produce the proper key in the track.
Now, let's take one song from the Abersold Bb book. Pick one and tell me what the key signature is in that Bb book.
Footprints by Wayne shorter
No key designated in the Abersold book songs, however it is based on a concert setting. All chords and all notes for the concert sheet are one note lower than for Tenor chords and notes on the same song.
Example:
First 4 chords for concert: C- C- F- C- (This is what I enter and transpose to below). For Tenor: D- D- G- D- (I want the ability to enter this as written and change only the track key instead of having to enter it in concert and convert)
There are no designated keys in the signature, just notes and chords.
Concert first three notes: Bb and Bb throughout the song except where cancelled. Tenor first three notes: C (This might suggest the key of F for concert, but there are no F#s indicating a corresponding key of G for Tenor here.
I did notice at the bottom of each page a reference to C- pentatonic scale for concert and D- pentatonic scale for Tenor version of the song.
Great song, know it well. Played it at my last concert.
And great forum user name too!
I would have called that the key of Cm (concert) as it starts and ends on that key. Dm for tenor sax. But I know the Abersold series prefers to use the scales and modes approach. So you are telling me the Bb fakebook has a key signature of no flats or sharps for the tenor part, and I assume the concert pitch book would also have no sharps or flats. As such, it's not a good example for this question in BIAB. I would like you to assume the song is in Cm concert.
OK, let me work on the steps...
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One of the first things to do entering any song into BIAB is to set the key, assuming you know it. ____________________________________________________________________
Set the style and tempo. [I chose AF68MOD.STY and a tempo of 105.]
Click on the Key icon and set the key to Dm using the left-hand column of the choices (assumes BIAB 2015 or 2016) [If you have already entered the song without doing that, see below]
Enter the chords (Dm for the first 8 bars etc) out of the tenor sax fakebook
Enter the melody notes (four Cs, then D etc.)
Save the song as "Footprints Bb" or "Footprints Tenor", or something like that; make up a convention to follow
Click on the Key icon and select Cm (one full step lower than whatever the tenor sax key is) in the left-hand column
Save the song as Footprints C or Footprints Concert ___________________________________________________________________
Note that we did not use any of the several transposition functions in BIAB. We could have, but this way is easier, by using only the Key icon, and saving the song in two keys. If you use the transpose function, you can forget it is on! Trust me on this, I play instruments pitched in F, G, A, Bb and C.
Also note that, if you want to remain faithful to Abersold's non-use of key signatures (which I do not recommend), you can just use the Key icon on either version you saved and change the key to C using the right-hand column (which will not transpose). This is a bad idea in BIAB, though, because BIAB uses the key signature to make many decisions about harmony and accidentals.
If you have already entered the song as written in the Bb fakebook, then before converting it to concert pitch, just click on the key icon and select Dm from the right-hand column.
Questions?
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One of the first things to do entering any song into BIAB is to set the key, assuming you know it. ____________________________________________________________________
Set the style and tempo. [I chose AF68MOD.STY and a tempo of 105.]
Click on the Key icon and set the key to Dm using the left-hand column of the choices (assumes BIAB 2015 or 2016) [If you have already entered the song without doing that, see below]
Enter the chords (Dm for the first 8 bars etc) out of the tenor sax fakebook
Enter the melody notes (four Cs, then D etc.)
Save the song as "Footprints Bb" or "Footprints Tenor", or something like that; make up a convention to follow
Click on the Key icon and select Cm (one full step lower than whatever the tenor sax key is) in the left-hand column
Save the song as Footprints C or Footprints Concert ___________________________________________________________________
Note that we did not use any of the several transposition functions in BIAB. We could have, but this way is easier, by using only the Key icon, and saving the song in two keys. If you use the transpose function, you can forget it is on! Trust me on this, I play instruments pitched in F, G, A, Bb and C.
Also note that, if you want to remain faithful to Abersold's non-use of key signatures (which I do not recommend), you can just use the Key icon on either version you saved and change the key to C using the right-hand column (which will not transpose). This is a bad idea in BIAB, though, because BIAB uses the key signature to make many decisions about harmony and accidentals.
If you have already entered the song as written in the Bb fakebook, then before converting it to concert pitch, just click on the key icon and select Dm from the right-hand column.
Questions?
Much appreciated Matt. I'll apply the procedure you described above when I get a chance later today.
The Jamey Abersold books are a sidebar since they come with their own background music. My main purpose for needing to be able to do this is for application to other practice materials that address technique and familiarity of scales and chord variations and therefore except for scales have no key signature posted. Coincidentally I already have the syle you posted selected.
This would be so much easier if there were a title on the dash that read "Track Key". I could simply set it and go.
Great. About the 'simpler' request, there are several ways to transpose in BIAB. Sometimes you want the pitch the same but the part transposed for play along. Whatever it is, BIAB can do it, but having options makes it more complicated.
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I tried the steps you listed and it was a no go. Starting from all default settings, I set the key on the menu/dash as directed, entered my chords and saved the song. Play back was out of tune.
I guess I have a lot going on as of late, as I realized I had already accomplished what I asked about here. By selecting transpose to Alto in the chord display drop down menu (forgot that I left my Tenor at a different location) I had already met my goal because after that action, whatever chord I typed in after the fact would have accompaniment playing to the tune of whatever instrument I selected (in this case alto) which was the case. Of course I didn't type the notes intended for Tenor during setup.
Thanks again for your help and comment on the screen name, I don't have any loose "screws" but I tend to fixate on tasks from time to time so it fits.
So far Ernie Watts plays my favorite version of Footprints here at time marker 2:01.
When you say playback was out of tune, I suspect now that you might have been asking about the 'other' transpose options. I thought your original intent was to produce a correct chart for concert pitch, given a Bb Facebook. If you want to try again, and describe exactly what you want to do, I'll certainly give it another try.
My brother was at Berklee with Ernie Watts. Great player. See if you can get hold of a tune called One Thousand Watts by Brazilian pianist (now in LA) Rique Pantoja.
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When you say playback was out of tune, I suspect now that you might have been asking about the 'other' transpose options. I thought your original intent was to produce a correct chart for concert pitch, given a Bb Facebook. If you want to try again, and describe exactly what you want to do, I'll certainly give it another try.
My brother was at Berklee with Ernie Watts. Great player. See if you can get hold of a tune called One Thousand Watts by Brazilian pianist (now in LA) Rique Pantoja.
Sorry for the confusion, I meant play a long instead of playback. My main focus right now is my Jazz Patterns book which is loaded with chords and therefore great for building technique and chord familiarity.
My intent is to use BIAB to provide the play-a-long music for the patterns book to create something similar to the JA books as well as use it in place of the JA CD tracks. I would be reading from my books while BIAB served as my play-a-long CD.
So for now I would only be entering chords from the book, no notes although that's in my plans for later.
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