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Hello...
Like many of you, I use BIAB in songwriting and recording. I just bought an 18 year old Digitech Studio Vocalist EX. It's a great harmonizer that can do 5 part harmony via MIDI control. And there's the problem: I can connect a MIDI keyboard to it and it works great (I have an old Yamaha E303). But no matter what I try I can't get BIAB or my Reaper DAW to communicate with it via MIDI. All I really need for my use is the note pitch, and note on and note off. (I admit to being unskilled with MIDI!)
I use a Steinberg UR22 audio/MIDI interface with my Win 10 computer, and I'm sure the problem is with the way the UR22 communicates. But I can't see anything I can change except for channels, which didn't help. Also, the Digitech Studio Vocalist EX only has the MIDI DIN connectors, not USB, which complicates things.
The Digitech unit has a MIDI indicator to show when it's receiving a MIDI signal. With the keyboard, I get a flash on the LED for both note on and note off. But with the computer, only a brief flash at each chord change on BIAB. And when singing into a mic attached to the Vocalist, I hear no vocals at all with BIAB's MIDI, but full harmonies with just a keyboard.
My end goal is to let BIAB drive the harmony part on the Vocalist EX while I concentrate on singing the lead. I'm not a good enough keyboard player to be able to play 3 or 4 note chords while singing and keeping in time and in tune.
Does anyone with MIDI experience have an idea or two that I could try?
Thanks for any help you can give!
Jim Francisco
BIAB 2020 with Reaper 6, on an AMD 8 core CPU, 16GB RAM, 240 GB SSD and 1 TB HD. Retired and trying to make some serious music, before Arthur Ritis spoils the fun.
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Jim,
Like you, I'm not a midi expert but there are some around here. Hopefully they will see the post.
In the meantime.... with only the knowledge of a novice to call on, it sounds like BIAB and Reaper are sending on a particular channel and the harmoniser is not set to receive that channel. (At least that's what I'd try.) I suspect that your keyboard you mention is set to send on all channels.
I'm assuming you have BIAB 2016 and the track you want sent is Melody....
If you look under the "Options | Preferences" and then select "Channels", you'll see that the Melody track uses channel 4. Try changing this to 1 and see if it makes a difference. (Reset it back to 4 if it doesn't do anything. Also, I'm not sure if BIAB needs a restart after changing channels so that the change can take effect. It might pay to do this.)
Regards,
Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2025
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Hi Jim,
I got rid of one of those a couple of years ago after having it sit in my rack unused for a number of years. Thus I am going by total memory here but I do have a bad case of CRS so this may not be 100% correct.
I would use your DAW for this as you can separate all four voices and record them on individual tracks; BiaB has only one audio record track. That way you could add different effects like pan, delay, reverb etc to each track.
I believe Noel is correct on the communication problem, i.e. different channels. Change the channel number in Reaper to match the EX's input MIDI channel. You could also set the EX to omni and mute all but one MIDI track.
I am guessing that you would probably use a piano or guitar track from BiaB/Reaper if you want 3 or 4 part harmony.
All of this assumes that everything is connected properly and everything is compatible with Win 10.
Let us know how you make out.
Whenever I get something stuck in the back of my throat, I dislodge it by drinking a beer.
It's called the Heineken Maneuver.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Thanks Noel and Mario,
I've tried a lot of different combinations of channels on Reaper and a few with BIAB, but none of them seem to work. As mentioned before, the LED on the Vocalist shows MIDI activity, if there is any.
But you're right, it's probably still a channel issue. I just haven't been able to find the right combination of things to make it work.
I even tried a freeware sequencer hoping that I could have more control over the MIDI. Problem is, I don't know enough about the inner workings of MIDI to know what the heck I'm doing! lol
Thanks again for the advice. Still hoping that a MIDI Guru out there has dealt with this issue before and can give me an idea where/how to make changes.
Jim
BIAB 2020 with Reaper 6, on an AMD 8 core CPU, 16GB RAM, 240 GB SSD and 1 TB HD. Retired and trying to make some serious music, before Arthur Ritis spoils the fun.
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Not sure I'm a guru but I use a lot of external MIDI gear (am installing new equipment and rearranging all my MIDI I/O in my rack as I speak).
I don't know anything about your UR 22 (I looked it up, however) or your old Digitech vocalist (again had to get manual) - but over the years I have had lots of Digitech gear that had with MIDI I/O. I still run a Digitech Studio 400 in my rack connected to my Signature 284 - a rack stereo EL84 guitar amp).
Back on point, besides just fiddling with channels (and it could be that simple - but unlikely at this point, we'll come back to that after we look at the following)
1. You are running the most current Yamaha (aka Steinberg) USB driver? (sounds like tech support guy doesn't it, sorry)
2. Do you have ANY other external MIDI gear that DOES work properly when driven from Reaper over the UR22 MIDI I/O?
2.a If yes then I'm sure the next two items are moot, but...
2.b If not
- are you sure (no offense) you have UR22 MIDI OUT connected to Digitech MIDI IN?
- have you tired swapping the MIDI cable from UR22 to Digitech?
- Can you see the Digitech MIDI OUTPUT in Reaper (over the UR22 in port)? Supposedly the Digitech front panel sends certain key strokes e.g., "key" - over MIDI
- just trying to confirm UR22 is 100%
If you have verified CABLE, connections and have set internal Digitech channel to "N" (page 31 of manual) and Reaper output for a track to the same channel "N" then … I'm stumped - I'll have to go have a scotch and ponder a while
Hope something here helped
Larry
Last edited by Larry Kehl; 04/29/16 03:22 PM.
Win10Pro,i9,64GB,2TBSSD+20TBHDDs,1080TI,BIAB'24,Scarlett18i8,Montage7,Fusion 8HD,QS8,Integra7,XV5080,QSR,SC-8850,SPLAT,FL21&others,Komp.14,IK suite&others, just a guitar player-AXE FX III &FM9T, FishmanTP, MIDIGuitar2, GK2/3'sw/GI20
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Larry, In my book, you're 100% Guru  Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2025
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Thanks for the great info, Larry! I'll try to answer your questions here...
1. You are running the most current Yamaha (aka Steinberg) USB driver? (sounds like tech support guy doesn't it, sorry) (That's OK, I AM a tech support guy! lol)
Yes, I just did that the other day.
2. Do you have ANY other external MIDI gear that DOES work properly when driven from Reaper over the UR22 MIDI I/O?
I was able to play the MIDI track on my external Yamaha keyboard through the UR22.
2.a If yes then I'm sure the next two items are moot, but...
2.b If not
- are you sure (no offense) you have UR22 MIDI OUT connected to Digitech MIDI IN? Yes, I marked my MIDI cables to help me to not screw up which was IN or OUT.
- have you tired swapping the MIDI cable from UR22 to Digitech? Yes, I tried several different MIDI cables.
- Can you see the Digitech MIDI OUTPUT in Reaper (over the UR22 in port)? Supposedly the Digitech front panel sends certain key strokes e.g., "key" - over MIDI This I have not been able to do. I'm not sure quite how to do this.
- just trying to confirm UR22 is 100%
If you have verified CABLE, connections and have set internal Digitech channel to "N" (page 31 of manual) and Reaper output for a track to the same channel "N"
This is where I get confused, especially in Reaper or BIAB, but I think I can set the Digitech to "omni" to communicate on all channels at once... should I try that?
then … I'm stumped - I'll have to go have a scotch and ponder a while
(I'm ready for the next bottle of scotch!)
Hope something here helped
Larry
I haven't been able to try all of the things you've mentioned, like in Reaper or the Digitech channel assignments, but I will try to study up a bit more on those things and do some experimenting. I'm currently working 12 hour shifts and don't have much extra time to play...
If any of my answers to your questions bring anything to mind, please let me know. You've been very gracious to offer your help, and I appreciate it! Thanks again, Larry!
Jim
BIAB 2020 with Reaper 6, on an AMD 8 core CPU, 16GB RAM, 240 GB SSD and 1 TB HD. Retired and trying to make some serious music, before Arthur Ritis spoils the fun.
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Let's keep it simple for this test:
1. Create ONE track in Reaper with some MIDI notes (could be the same NOTE fo rthis test over, and over, and over) (easiest way load a MIDI file and delete ALL but one track - so you can focus on where things are)
2. Now I have Reaper but don’t use it much so there might be a better way but on a few of these:
a. Options -> preferences -> MIDI devices - make sure your UR22 Input and Output are enabled.
b. On the ONE MIDI track, click on the "Route" (it's to the right of the track name/title) and under "Sends" click on "Add new send…" on the same menu on the right hand side, under "MIDI Hardware output" select your UR22.
Again on SAME menu right under where you selected the UR22 as MIDI output lets force (guarantee) the MIDI channel you will send this track on to the UR22 so now pick "Send to Channel 2")
c. lets verify your Digitech, according to page 32 of manual (below) , is set to receive on 2 (or OMNI):
"…
To change the Vocoder MIDI channel(s):
1. Press the Utilities button from any mode. This presents the UTILITIES main menu.Press the soft key corresponding to MIDI. This presents the MIDI Utilities submenu.
2. Press the soft key corresponding to Channel.
3. Press the Right Arrow button.
4. You can select Vocoder voices 2, 3 and 4 using the softkeys below them. Voice 1 follows the system channel and cannot he changed in this screen. The channel settings can be changed with the upper and lower softkeys or the Data Wheel.
Selecting the "off- option by turning the Data Wheel to the right dis¬ables external control of the Vocoder. Selecting the "omni" option causes the Vocoder to respond to notes on any and all MIDI channels.
6. Press the Utilities button again to exit. This returns you to the mode from which you entered."
Now in a quick search of Digitech manual I can't quickly find where you change system channel (usually MIDI channel 1, this is the channel which allows you to send commands, like Program changes, song key, things other than, or in addition to, musical NOTES) that's why I want you to SEND from Reaper on channel 2. Assuming you have a SOUND of some kind (at least one voice) set on Channel 2 in Digitech.
Let's see if this makes sound.
Last edited by Larry Kehl; 04/30/16 10:07 AM.
Win10Pro,i9,64GB,2TBSSD+20TBHDDs,1080TI,BIAB'24,Scarlett18i8,Montage7,Fusion 8HD,QS8,Integra7,XV5080,QSR,SC-8850,SPLAT,FL21&others,Komp.14,IK suite&others, just a guitar player-AXE FX III &FM9T, FishmanTP, MIDIGuitar2, GK2/3'sw/GI20
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Thank you, Larry. I'll try this tomorrow after I get some sleep and have some time off. (These 12 hour night shifts are killing me.) I really do appreciate all you're doing to help!
Thanks again,
Jim
BIAB 2020 with Reaper 6, on an AMD 8 core CPU, 16GB RAM, 240 GB SSD and 1 TB HD. Retired and trying to make some serious music, before Arthur Ritis spoils the fun.
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OK, I couldn't sleep anyway, so I got busy with your instructions, Larry. :P I used BIAB to produce a midi track which I then loaded into Reaper. It was a chordal track that I hoped would work... otherwise I would go back and do as you suggested and just use a single note track. I did the track selection in the Digitech first and set it for "omni". I set the system channel to 2 also. Then in Reaper I did everything as you suggested (this was where most of my confusion came from...), played the track, and EUREKA! I now have my MIDI input to the Digitech! I sang into the mic to make sure I got harmonies, and, on those infrequent occasions I was on key, it worked great! Thank you so much, Larry the Guru! You're expertise is very much appreciated! Jim
BIAB 2020 with Reaper 6, on an AMD 8 core CPU, 16GB RAM, 240 GB SSD and 1 TB HD. Retired and trying to make some serious music, before Arthur Ritis spoils the fun.
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Jim
Just glad it's working for you and that I could help
Larry
Win10Pro,i9,64GB,2TBSSD+20TBHDDs,1080TI,BIAB'24,Scarlett18i8,Montage7,Fusion 8HD,QS8,Integra7,XV5080,QSR,SC-8850,SPLAT,FL21&others,Komp.14,IK suite&others, just a guitar player-AXE FX III &FM9T, FishmanTP, MIDIGuitar2, GK2/3'sw/GI20
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You were definitely a big help, Larry!
I'm trying to gather more info on MIDI to study it a bit more seriously. I've owned a MIDI synth for almost 30 years, yet never got further than connecting it to my (then) state of the art Commodore 64! lol But it was fun and I could play all kinds of things with that old computer.
Now... I'm trying to tie BIAB, Reaper, Tracktion 7, and a lot of vintage gear all together in my studio. It's even more of a challenge since nowadays most MIDI controllers use USB rather than DIN connections.
But it's the great people like yourself and others on this forum that are willing to help, which make the process go much smoother.
Thanks again!
Jim
BIAB 2020 with Reaper 6, on an AMD 8 core CPU, 16GB RAM, 240 GB SSD and 1 TB HD. Retired and trying to make some serious music, before Arthur Ritis spoils the fun.
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You were definitely a big help, Larry!
I'm trying to gather more info on MIDI to study it a bit more seriously.
Now... I'm trying to tie BIAB, Reaper, Tracktion 7, and a lot of vintage gear all together in my studio. It's even more of a challenge since nowadays most MIDI controllers use USB rather than DIN connections.
Jim Jim I set up MIDI gear in the early days. What I found most helpful is utilizing MIDI routing systems which included Merging and Thru ports. One example is using the computer DAW to trigger a sound module while also allowing the Keyboard player to play live through the same set up. The simplest solution is using a MIDI Merge box. The MIDI out from the DAW and the MIDI out from the KEYBOARD are merged in the BOX and both drive the same set of sound modules. This creates the ability to use your 16 MIDI channels to address splits, switch synths on the fly, layer, and also cut down on the number of MIDI cables you need to run. Here is a company that makes a few versions, with diagrams how to use them. Not endorsing them they just have good diagrams. http://www.philrees.co.uk/products/mergebox.htmThere are many MIDI (Patch Bays) Boxes available used, especially since the switch over to USB ports.
"When you help somebody else you are really helping yourself"
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