|
Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 119
Apprentice
|
OP
Apprentice
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 119 |
Hello...
Like many of you, I use BIAB in songwriting and recording. I just bought an 18 year old Digitech Studio Vocalist EX. It's a great harmonizer that can do 5 part harmony via MIDI control. And there's the problem: I can connect a MIDI keyboard to it and it works great (I have an old Yamaha E303). But no matter what I try I can't get BIAB or my Reaper DAW to communicate with it via MIDI. All I really need for my use is the note pitch, and note on and note off. (I admit to being unskilled with MIDI!)
I use a Steinberg UR22 audio/MIDI interface with my Win 10 computer, and I'm sure the problem is with the way the UR22 communicates. But I can't see anything I can change except for channels, which didn't help. Also, the Digitech Studio Vocalist EX only has the MIDI DIN connectors, not USB, which complicates things.
The Digitech unit has a MIDI indicator to show when it's receiving a MIDI signal. With the keyboard, I get a flash on the LED for both note on and note off. But with the computer, only a brief flash at each chord change on BIAB. And when singing into a mic attached to the Vocalist, I hear no vocals at all with BIAB's MIDI, but full harmonies with just a keyboard.
My end goal is to let BIAB drive the harmony part on the Vocalist EX while I concentrate on singing the lead. I'm not a good enough keyboard player to be able to play 3 or 4 note chords while singing and keeping in time and in tune.
Does anyone with MIDI experience have an idea or two that I could try?
Thanks for any help you can give!
Jim Francisco
BIAB 2020 with Reaper 6, on an AMD 8 core CPU, 16GB RAM, 240 GB SSD and 1 TB HD. Retired and trying to make some serious music, before Arthur Ritis spoils the fun.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 20,365
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 20,365 |
Jim,
Like you, I'm not a midi expert but there are some around here. Hopefully they will see the post.
In the meantime.... with only the knowledge of a novice to call on, it sounds like BIAB and Reaper are sending on a particular channel and the harmoniser is not set to receive that channel. (At least that's what I'd try.) I suspect that your keyboard you mention is set to send on all channels.
I'm assuming you have BIAB 2016 and the track you want sent is Melody....
If you look under the "Options | Preferences" and then select "Channels", you'll see that the Melody track uses channel 4. Try changing this to 1 and see if it makes a difference. (Reset it back to 4 if it doesn't do anything. Also, I'm not sure if BIAB needs a restart after changing channels so that the change can take effect. It might pay to do this.)
Regards,
Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2026
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 24,286
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 24,286 |
Hi Jim,
I got rid of one of those a couple of years ago after having it sit in my rack unused for a number of years. Thus I am going by total memory here but I do have a bad case of CRS so this may not be 100% correct.
I would use your DAW for this as you can separate all four voices and record them on individual tracks; BiaB has only one audio record track. That way you could add different effects like pan, delay, reverb etc to each track.
I believe Noel is correct on the communication problem, i.e. different channels. Change the channel number in Reaper to match the EX's input MIDI channel. You could also set the EX to omni and mute all but one MIDI track.
I am guessing that you would probably use a piano or guitar track from BiaB/Reaper if you want 3 or 4 part harmony.
All of this assumes that everything is connected properly and everything is compatible with Win 10.
Let us know how you make out.
Principal: Your child always causes trouble in school.
Me: My child causes trouble at home, do I ever call you?
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 119
Apprentice
|
|
OP
Apprentice
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 119 |
Thanks Noel and Mario,
I've tried a lot of different combinations of channels on Reaper and a few with BIAB, but none of them seem to work. As mentioned before, the LED on the Vocalist shows MIDI activity, if there is any.
But you're right, it's probably still a channel issue. I just haven't been able to find the right combination of things to make it work.
I even tried a freeware sequencer hoping that I could have more control over the MIDI. Problem is, I don't know enough about the inner workings of MIDI to know what the heck I'm doing! lol
Thanks again for the advice. Still hoping that a MIDI Guru out there has dealt with this issue before and can give me an idea where/how to make changes.
Jim
BIAB 2020 with Reaper 6, on an AMD 8 core CPU, 16GB RAM, 240 GB SSD and 1 TB HD. Retired and trying to make some serious music, before Arthur Ritis spoils the fun.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 2,498
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 2,498 |
Not sure I'm a guru but I use a lot of external MIDI gear (am installing new equipment and rearranging all my MIDI I/O in my rack as I speak).
I don't know anything about your UR 22 (I looked it up, however) or your old Digitech vocalist (again had to get manual) - but over the years I have had lots of Digitech gear that had with MIDI I/O. I still run a Digitech Studio 400 in my rack connected to my Signature 284 - a rack stereo EL84 guitar amp).
Back on point, besides just fiddling with channels (and it could be that simple - but unlikely at this point, we'll come back to that after we look at the following)
1. You are running the most current Yamaha (aka Steinberg) USB driver? (sounds like tech support guy doesn't it, sorry)
2. Do you have ANY other external MIDI gear that DOES work properly when driven from Reaper over the UR22 MIDI I/O?
2.a If yes then I'm sure the next two items are moot, but...
2.b If not
- are you sure (no offense) you have UR22 MIDI OUT connected to Digitech MIDI IN?
- have you tired swapping the MIDI cable from UR22 to Digitech?
- Can you see the Digitech MIDI OUTPUT in Reaper (over the UR22 in port)? Supposedly the Digitech front panel sends certain key strokes e.g., "key" - over MIDI
- just trying to confirm UR22 is 100%
If you have verified CABLE, connections and have set internal Digitech channel to "N" (page 31 of manual) and Reaper output for a track to the same channel "N" then … I'm stumped - I'll have to go have a scotch and ponder a while
Hope something here helped
Larry
Last edited by Larry Kehl; 04/29/16 02:22 PM.
Win10Pro,i9,64GB,2TBSSD+20TBHDDs,1080TI,BIAB'24,Scarlett18i8,Montage7,Fusion 8HD,QS8,Integra7,XV5080,QSR,SC-8850,SPLAT,FL21&others,Komp.14,IK suite&others, just a guitar player-AXE FX III &FM9T, FishmanTP, MIDIGuitar2, GK2/3'sw/GI20
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 20,365
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 20,365 |
Larry, In my book, you're 100% Guru  Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2026
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 119
Apprentice
|
|
OP
Apprentice
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 119 |
Thanks for the great info, Larry! I'll try to answer your questions here...
1. You are running the most current Yamaha (aka Steinberg) USB driver? (sounds like tech support guy doesn't it, sorry) (That's OK, I AM a tech support guy! lol)
Yes, I just did that the other day.
2. Do you have ANY other external MIDI gear that DOES work properly when driven from Reaper over the UR22 MIDI I/O?
I was able to play the MIDI track on my external Yamaha keyboard through the UR22.
2.a If yes then I'm sure the next two items are moot, but...
2.b If not
- are you sure (no offense) you have UR22 MIDI OUT connected to Digitech MIDI IN? Yes, I marked my MIDI cables to help me to not screw up which was IN or OUT.
- have you tired swapping the MIDI cable from UR22 to Digitech? Yes, I tried several different MIDI cables.
- Can you see the Digitech MIDI OUTPUT in Reaper (over the UR22 in port)? Supposedly the Digitech front panel sends certain key strokes e.g., "key" - over MIDI This I have not been able to do. I'm not sure quite how to do this.
- just trying to confirm UR22 is 100%
If you have verified CABLE, connections and have set internal Digitech channel to "N" (page 31 of manual) and Reaper output for a track to the same channel "N"
This is where I get confused, especially in Reaper or BIAB, but I think I can set the Digitech to "omni" to communicate on all channels at once... should I try that?
then … I'm stumped - I'll have to go have a scotch and ponder a while
(I'm ready for the next bottle of scotch!)
Hope something here helped
Larry
I haven't been able to try all of the things you've mentioned, like in Reaper or the Digitech channel assignments, but I will try to study up a bit more on those things and do some experimenting. I'm currently working 12 hour shifts and don't have much extra time to play...
If any of my answers to your questions bring anything to mind, please let me know. You've been very gracious to offer your help, and I appreciate it! Thanks again, Larry!
Jim
BIAB 2020 with Reaper 6, on an AMD 8 core CPU, 16GB RAM, 240 GB SSD and 1 TB HD. Retired and trying to make some serious music, before Arthur Ritis spoils the fun.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 2,498
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 2,498 |
Let's keep it simple for this test:
1. Create ONE track in Reaper with some MIDI notes (could be the same NOTE fo rthis test over, and over, and over) (easiest way load a MIDI file and delete ALL but one track - so you can focus on where things are)
2. Now I have Reaper but don’t use it much so there might be a better way but on a few of these:
a. Options -> preferences -> MIDI devices - make sure your UR22 Input and Output are enabled.
b. On the ONE MIDI track, click on the "Route" (it's to the right of the track name/title) and under "Sends" click on "Add new send…" on the same menu on the right hand side, under "MIDI Hardware output" select your UR22.
Again on SAME menu right under where you selected the UR22 as MIDI output lets force (guarantee) the MIDI channel you will send this track on to the UR22 so now pick "Send to Channel 2")
c. lets verify your Digitech, according to page 32 of manual (below) , is set to receive on 2 (or OMNI):
"…
To change the Vocoder MIDI channel(s):
1. Press the Utilities button from any mode. This presents the UTILITIES main menu.Press the soft key corresponding to MIDI. This presents the MIDI Utilities submenu.
2. Press the soft key corresponding to Channel.
3. Press the Right Arrow button.
4. You can select Vocoder voices 2, 3 and 4 using the softkeys below them. Voice 1 follows the system channel and cannot he changed in this screen. The channel settings can be changed with the upper and lower softkeys or the Data Wheel.
Selecting the "off- option by turning the Data Wheel to the right dis¬ables external control of the Vocoder. Selecting the "omni" option causes the Vocoder to respond to notes on any and all MIDI channels.
6. Press the Utilities button again to exit. This returns you to the mode from which you entered."
Now in a quick search of Digitech manual I can't quickly find where you change system channel (usually MIDI channel 1, this is the channel which allows you to send commands, like Program changes, song key, things other than, or in addition to, musical NOTES) that's why I want you to SEND from Reaper on channel 2. Assuming you have a SOUND of some kind (at least one voice) set on Channel 2 in Digitech.
Let's see if this makes sound.
Last edited by Larry Kehl; 04/30/16 09:07 AM.
Win10Pro,i9,64GB,2TBSSD+20TBHDDs,1080TI,BIAB'24,Scarlett18i8,Montage7,Fusion 8HD,QS8,Integra7,XV5080,QSR,SC-8850,SPLAT,FL21&others,Komp.14,IK suite&others, just a guitar player-AXE FX III &FM9T, FishmanTP, MIDIGuitar2, GK2/3'sw/GI20
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 119
Apprentice
|
|
OP
Apprentice
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 119 |
Thank you, Larry. I'll try this tomorrow after I get some sleep and have some time off. (These 12 hour night shifts are killing me.) I really do appreciate all you're doing to help!
Thanks again,
Jim
BIAB 2020 with Reaper 6, on an AMD 8 core CPU, 16GB RAM, 240 GB SSD and 1 TB HD. Retired and trying to make some serious music, before Arthur Ritis spoils the fun.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 119
Apprentice
|
|
OP
Apprentice
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 119 |
OK, I couldn't sleep anyway, so I got busy with your instructions, Larry. :P I used BIAB to produce a midi track which I then loaded into Reaper. It was a chordal track that I hoped would work... otherwise I would go back and do as you suggested and just use a single note track. I did the track selection in the Digitech first and set it for "omni". I set the system channel to 2 also. Then in Reaper I did everything as you suggested (this was where most of my confusion came from...), played the track, and EUREKA! I now have my MIDI input to the Digitech! I sang into the mic to make sure I got harmonies, and, on those infrequent occasions I was on key, it worked great! Thank you so much, Larry the Guru! You're expertise is very much appreciated! Jim
BIAB 2020 with Reaper 6, on an AMD 8 core CPU, 16GB RAM, 240 GB SSD and 1 TB HD. Retired and trying to make some serious music, before Arthur Ritis spoils the fun.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 2,498
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 2,498 |
Jim
Just glad it's working for you and that I could help
Larry
Win10Pro,i9,64GB,2TBSSD+20TBHDDs,1080TI,BIAB'24,Scarlett18i8,Montage7,Fusion 8HD,QS8,Integra7,XV5080,QSR,SC-8850,SPLAT,FL21&others,Komp.14,IK suite&others, just a guitar player-AXE FX III &FM9T, FishmanTP, MIDIGuitar2, GK2/3'sw/GI20
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 119
Apprentice
|
|
OP
Apprentice
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 119 |
You were definitely a big help, Larry!
I'm trying to gather more info on MIDI to study it a bit more seriously. I've owned a MIDI synth for almost 30 years, yet never got further than connecting it to my (then) state of the art Commodore 64! lol But it was fun and I could play all kinds of things with that old computer.
Now... I'm trying to tie BIAB, Reaper, Tracktion 7, and a lot of vintage gear all together in my studio. It's even more of a challenge since nowadays most MIDI controllers use USB rather than DIN connections.
But it's the great people like yourself and others on this forum that are willing to help, which make the process go much smoother.
Thanks again!
Jim
BIAB 2020 with Reaper 6, on an AMD 8 core CPU, 16GB RAM, 240 GB SSD and 1 TB HD. Retired and trying to make some serious music, before Arthur Ritis spoils the fun.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 671
Journeyman
|
|
Journeyman
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 671 |
You were definitely a big help, Larry!
I'm trying to gather more info on MIDI to study it a bit more seriously.
Now... I'm trying to tie BIAB, Reaper, Tracktion 7, and a lot of vintage gear all together in my studio. It's even more of a challenge since nowadays most MIDI controllers use USB rather than DIN connections.
Jim Jim I set up MIDI gear in the early days. What I found most helpful is utilizing MIDI routing systems which included Merging and Thru ports. One example is using the computer DAW to trigger a sound module while also allowing the Keyboard player to play live through the same set up. The simplest solution is using a MIDI Merge box. The MIDI out from the DAW and the MIDI out from the KEYBOARD are merged in the BOX and both drive the same set of sound modules. This creates the ability to use your 16 MIDI channels to address splits, switch synths on the fly, layer, and also cut down on the number of MIDI cables you need to run. Here is a company that makes a few versions, with diagrams how to use them. Not endorsing them they just have good diagrams. http://www.philrees.co.uk/products/mergebox.htmThere are many MIDI (Patch Bays) Boxes available used, especially since the switch over to USB ports.
"When you help somebody else you are really helping yourself"
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box 2026 for Windows Special Offers End Tomorrow (January 15th, 2026) at 11:59 PM PST!
Time really is running out! Save up to 50% on Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® upgrades and receive a FREE Bonus PAK—only when you order by 11:59 PM PST on Thursday, January 15, 2026!
We've added many major new features and new content in a redesigned Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®!
Version 2026 introduces a modernized GUI redesign across the program, with updated toolbars, refreshed windows, smoother workflows, and a new Dark Mode option. There’s also a new side toolbar for quicker access to commonly used windows, and the new Multi-View feature lets you arrange multiple windows as layered panels without overlap, making it easier to customize your workspace.
Another exciting new addition is the new AI-Notes feature, which can transcribe polyphonic audio into MIDI. You can view the results in notation or play them back as MIDI, and choose whether to process an entire track or focus on specific parts like drums, bass, guitars/piano, or vocals. There's over 100 new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®.
There's an amazing collection of new content too, including 202 RealTracks, new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two RealDrums Stems sets, XPro Styles PAK 10, Xtra Styles PAK 21, and much more!
Upgrade your Band-in-a-Box for Windows to save up to 50% on most Band-in-a-Box® 2026 upgrade packages!
Plus, when you order your Band-in-a-Box® 2026 upgrade during our special, you'll receive a Free Bonus PAK of exciting new add-ons.
If you need any help deciding which package is the best option for you, just let us know. We are here to help!
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® Special Offers Extended Until January 15, 2026!
Good news! You still have time to upgrade to the latest version of Band-in-a-Box® for Windows® and save. Our Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® special now runs through January 15, 2025!
We've packed Band-in-a-Box® 2026 with major new features, enhancements, and an incredible lineup of new content! The program now sports a sleek, modern GUI redesign across the entire interface, including updated toolbars, refreshed windows, smoother workflows, a new dark mode option, and more. The brand-new side toolbar provides quicker access to key windows, while the new Multi-View feature lets you arrange multiple windows as layered panels without overlap, creating a flexible, clutter-free workspace. We have an amazing new “AI-Notes” feature. This transcribes polyphonic audio into MIDI so you can view it in notation or play it back as MIDI. You can process an entire track (all pitched instruments and drums) or focus on individual parts like drums, bass, guitars/piano, or vocals. There's an amazing collection of new content too, including 202 RealTracks, new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two RealDrums Stems sets, XPro Styles PAK 10, Xtra Styles PAK 21, and much more!
There are over 100 new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®.
When you order purchase Band-in-a-Box® 2026 before 11:59 PM PST on January 15th, you'll also receive a Free Bonus PAK packed with exciting new add-ons.
Upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® today! Check out the Band-in-a-Box® packages page for all the purchase options available.
Happy New Year!
Thank you for being part of the Band-in-a-Box® community.
Wishing you and yours a very happy 2026—Happy New Year from all of us at PG Music!
Season's Greetings!
Wishing everyone a happy, healthy holiday season—thanks for being part of our community!
The office will be closed for Christmas Day, but we will be back on Boxing Day (Dec 26th) at 6:00am PST.
Team PG
Band-in-a-Box 2026 Video: The Newly Designed Piano Roll Window
In this video, we explore the updated Piano Roll, complete with a modernized look and exciting new features. You’ll see new filtering options that make it easy to focus on specific note groups, smoother and more intuitive note entry and editing, and enhanced options for zooming, looping, and more.
Watch the video.
You can see all the 2026 videos on our forum!
Band-in-a-Box 2026 Video: AI Stems & Notes - split polyphonic audio into instruments and transcribe
This video demonstrates how to use the new AI-Notes feature together with the AI-Stems splitter, allowing you to select an audio file and have it separated into individual stems while transcribing each one to its own MIDI track. AI-Notes converts polyphonic audio—either full mixes or individual instruments—into MIDI that you can view in notation or play back instantly.
Watch the video.
You can see all the 2026 videos on our forum!
Bonus PAK and 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®
With your version 2026 for Windows Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons for FREE! Or upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2026 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 27 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 25 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 12 new RealStyles.
- MIDI Styles Set 92: Look Ma! More MIDI 15: Latin Jazz
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 46: Piano & Organ
- Instrumental Studies Set 24: Groovin' Blues Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 19: Songs with Vocals 9
- Playable RealTracks Set 5
- RealDrums Stems Set 9: Cool Brushes
- SynthMaster Sounds Set 1 (with audio demos)
- Android Band-in-a-Box® App (included)
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyle.
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- MIDI Styles Set 93: Look Ma! More MIDI 16: SynthMaster
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 47: More SynthMaster
- Instrumental Studies 25 - Soul Jazz Guitar Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 20: Songs with Vocals 10
- RealDrums Stems Set 10: Groovin' Sticks
- SynthMaster Sounds & Styles Set 2 (sounds & styles with audio demos)
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums57
Topics85,750
Posts795,753
Members39,950
| |
Most Online25,754
Jan 24th, 2025
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean