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Originally Posted By: Hugh2
Hi
I dont play any instrument and so its difficult for me to gauge the quality of a realtrack compares to a girl/guy playing lets say on a piano in a studio recording through a mic or mics.
I guess what im asking is the realtrack up to the quality for a professional recording artist or would they redo the track again in studio?Obviously I want to produce as much finished tracks as I can without having to pay someone to play a track or tracks on my compositions.Thats the reason for asking.
Another way of putting it is :if im happy with the outcome of how the realtrack plays is the quality up to professional recording standard?(the track being mixed and mastered professionally being a given along with good computer systems etc)
May I add as for me i just produce midi compositions and run them through biab.Even though they obviously dont go note for note on my compositions they always make the composition (even if its turns out a good bit different) way way better.
Its funny too its a programme where not playing an instrument can sometimes lead you to making great sounding music
Its a fabulous technology and a really great company and staff,
Yours Hugh



Hi There Hugh .

I noticed some of the guys here have given you some great advice to take on board. cool


My advice is to give you this link: https://www.lynda.com/Pro-Tools-tutorials/Audio-Mixing-Bootcamp/87006-2.html

This is a link to a 9 hour long Tuition video series on Lynda.com called Audio Mixing Bootcamp , by Bobby Owsinsky

He performs on pro tools, but the Daw doent matter what type, the principles are the same. I also recommend you buy his book home recording handbook (I think) .., which will teach you the all important fundamentals like mic placement etc.

NOTE: You normally have to pay to watch these videos on lynda.com ... BUT .., you get a FREE 10 day full trial (after signing up)
...., This will give you enough time for the crash course, plus there is also stacks of other great video series also to watch and learn from.



Groove 3.com , MacProVideo.com are also excellent (and much cheaper than a lynda subscription) but do not offer free demo periods) .., and remember ..., there is no such thing as a stupid question .., so ask and seek .., all the best smile





Heres the full rundown of the recommended course : AUDIO MIXING BOOTCAMP .., by Bobby Owsinsky

Link : https://www.lynda.com/Pro-Tools-tutorials/Audio-Mixing-Bootcamp/87006-2.html

In this course, author Bobby Owsinski reveals industry tips, tricks, and techniques for producing professionally mixed audio on any digital audio workstation.

He offers recommendations for setting up an optimal listening environment, highlights the most efficient ways to set up and balance a mix, and shows how to build a powerful sound with compression.

The course also explains how to master the intricacies of EQ; incorporate reverb, delay, and modulation effects; and generate the final mix.

Topics include:

Optimizing your listening environment
Setting up sessions, subgroups, and effects
Understanding which mixing elements to avoid
Understanding the principles of building a mix
Panning instruments
Setting up the compressor
Using noise gates and de-essers
Understanding the concept of frequency juggling
Using the magic high-pass filter
Timing reverb and delay to a track
Using reverb to layer the mix
Understanding the Haas effect
Modulating guitars, keyboards, and vocals
Mixing with subgroups
Tweaking the final mix

..., and many more ...,

for interest , heres Bobbys blog , some great studio stuff : http://bobbyowsinskiblog.com/

Last edited by SFG; 10/14/16 12:49 AM.

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Tobias, for the bass only, you can specify pedal bass and have that do something different from the other instruments.


BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Also Hugh , If your gonna start , dont skimp on your interface , large numbers of inputs are not important unless you are recording a full band at the same time , like a fully miced drum kit and more simultaneously ,
.., if not just start with a 2 or four pre-amped input interface .., but make sure it is the best quality ..
a 2 input model for you should be enough to start cheaply.

like for example the focusrite claret range , or their new scarlet range (not the older version) or Antelope Audio are also making excellent stuff .., and their Hi Z guitar inputs are excellent also offering low noise . But importantly. these new offerings feature very low latency.

https://us.focusrite.com/usb-audio-interfaces/scarlett-2i2

https://us.focusrite.com/thunderbolt-audio-interfaces/clarett-2pre


With mics , its better to save up and buy the quality mics you need for life , rather than a cheap and nasty one (that also sounds like crap) at which you need to upgrade later on .., as that is wasted money that could have gone towards the good mic.

And just buy (start with) i good condensor mike eg: RODE NT1 (about $250) it sounds good , and can sound as good as than some mics 3 times the price , and offers good bang for the buck. Its used for vocals, acoustic guitar , piano and can even handle the high spl's ok and lower frequencies like bass .., but generally more suited for mids to smooth highs - and later on you will always find a use for it ..

There is many other types but this advic is to just get you started without wasting money


next buy a Shure SM57 dynamic mic..., a tough , bullitproof studio workhorse , and a staple for guitar amps , drums (especially snare) and even used as a vocal mic sometimes (actually Bono and Micheal jackson liked to record vocals through one of these) .., but its vesatile .., so with these 2 mics and your decent preamp/interface you wont have wasted any money and youll be good to go .

Do your homework on what Daw you want its very subjective as to what the best (or easiest) Reaper is the cheapest, cubase best for midi, the list goes on .., and like I said all is subjective and each has its own fan boys .., good luck

Last edited by SFG; 10/14/16 01:03 AM.

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To get what you want, you might have to step outside of the box...so to speak... take the tracks to a full featured, easy to use DAW, and do some audio editing to get the result you want.

So... in your example... you want the bass to hold a note while other instruments play and change to other chords.

So.... in a DAW.... you simply let the other tracks play.... You insert a volume automation envelope and pull the bass OUT for the 2 measures. You insert a bass synth that sounds like the bass RT and play one note. waaa laaa.

I did that on piano in Fools Errand. The entire piano track is a RT that plays all the way through. But, there comes a part where the piano is playing single and double note chords... that's a midi piano played by me.

FOOLS ERRAND

the part occurs between 3:24 and 3:53. Even an intent listener will not catch that it's two totally different pianos because I took the time to match the tonal quality of the mid to the RT.


I do not hesitate to use MIDI in this manner when I need something that BB/RT's won't deliver easily. I find I have to think outside of the box quite often as I work with music. If I can accomplish it in BB/RB, well that's good and I do that... but if I run into the proverbial brick wall in BB/RB, I figure out how I can accomplish it in a different manner and set about finding that solution. It's amazing what you learn by doing that.

Last edited by Guitarhacker; 10/14/16 02:37 PM.

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Add nothing that adds nothing to the music.
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Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
Tobias, for the bass only, you can specify pedal bass and have that do something different from the other instruments.


Huh?, What is Pedal Bass? I've seen it in the preferences but I've never used it for anything. Is it for midi only or does it apply to RealTracks also? I always assumed it was some option for organ players to hook up their midi bass pedals/bass foot paddles to or through BIAB.
What am I missing?

What I'm mostly referring to is the stop - restrike of every instrument at the start of a new chord when the intention is to only hear certain instruments strike the new chord. Ex: You are probably familiar with editing a midi strings or synth track between bars. In Piano Roll Edit Window you can see and hear the end of the chord at the end of a measure and the start of the very same chord at the start of the very next measure. And, drawing out the ends of each note to fill the gap or deleting the next bar to prevent overlap and then drawing/dragging out the note lengths to where you want them to end. The behavior I'm after is to have guitar striking a chord (and perhaps an different chord) at the beginning of a bar while the strings sustain through the guitars chord changes without striking a new chord.
Do you know how to create this behavior on a single BIAB chord sheet window?


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Originally Posted By: Guitarhacker
To get what you want, you might have to step outside of the box...so to speak... take the tracks to a full featured, easy to use DAW, and do some audio editing to get the result you want.

So... in your example... you want the bass to hold a note while other instruments play and change to other chords.

So.... in a DAW.... you simply let the other tracks play.... You insert a volume automation envelope and pull the bass OUT for the 2 measures. You insert a bass synth that sounds like the bass RT and play one note. waaa laaa.

I did that on piano in Fools Errand. The entire piano track is a RT that plays all the way through. But, there comes a part where the piano is playing single and double note chords... that's a midi piano played by me.

FOOLS ERRAND

the part occurs between 3:24 and 3:53. Even an intent listener will not catch that it's two totally different pianos because I took the time to match the tonal quality of the mid to the RT.


I do not hesitate to use MIDI in this manner when I need something that BB/RT's won't deliver easily. I find I have to think outside of the box quite often as I work with music. If I can accomplish it in BB/RB, well that's good and I do that... but if I run into the proverbial brick wall in BB/RB, I figure out how I can accomplish it in a different manner and set about finding that solution. It's amazing what you learn by doing that.


I think you understand what I'm after. I think it's this restrike every chord behavior that makes a song sound like it was done in BIAB. As I, hopefully, explained earlier in this thread, my work around has been to re-make the same chord sheet window with held bass and/or strings chords or no new chord at certain bars for the instruments that I do not want restiking. I do that by inserting an audio track of the more active instruments from the previous chord sheet. Of course I give the chord sheets different names. NewSong.SGU and NewSong_BassAndStrings.SGU for example. That way I always have the original version. Then I import the stems I want from each version.
I just wish I could do it all in one chord sheet window 'cause I'm getting spoiled.


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Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
Studios of course can use multiple tracks of different bit or sample rates; they are converted to the rates used in the master project, so that's not an obstacle for any DAW.

You comments about the final version in MP3 and most people not knowing the difference are true. In fact, it's your original question in reverse: even the regular version of BIAB is pretty hard to tell from the audiophile version. I have posted here many times on the small differences.

More headroom gives you both advantages you cited. Recording engineers would say that the ability to experiment with levels and effects without distortion is critical in mixing, but you always want to get a strong enough input signal on the original recorded track too.

My most important tool when mixing is Ozone by Izotope. It's nice when used sparingly but you can squash out all the dynamic range if you want to, like a poor radio station. I mix for an audiophile listener. If it works for them, it works for anyone.


I wouldn't consider mixer just for an audiophile listener as your only considering 1% of listeners. You really want to mix for every enviorment, cheep earbuds, laptop speakers, cars, mono speakers, generally anywhere someone may be listening to your or anyone's music. The Audiophile thing is a joke. I read a post from an audio engineer facebook group about a guy who was aksed to make and aduiophile version of a song and only used stock plug-ins


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Originally Posted By: Islansoul
[The Audiophile thing is a joke. I read a post from an audio engineer facebook group about a guy who was aksed to make and aduiophile version of a song and only used stock plug-ins


Hi Islansoul,
There is no special recipe to follow , but there are some established guidelines. Rules are also made to be broken (except when it comes to the risk of digital clipping) but first you need to put in the required time it takes to learn and understand those guidelines . After that many great mixing ideas can result from happy accidents and from breaking rules.

Re; plugins , there is absolutely nothing wrong with stock plugins, they are just tools, but its the way in which these tools are used that makes all the difference..., just like a new car from the showroom that has it's OEM stock tires - even though there are better, more expensive tires on the market , that car still performs just fine with the stock tires.

Mixing (and tracking) is all about trial and error , and A-B-ing to find the right balance for "You" and it's various intended listening environments.

You will find a pro with a great range of 3rd party plugins would also be able to do a great job managing with stock plugins ..., you just need to "put in the time" to know your gear.

Just to give you an example , a great producer "Joey Sturgis" is well known for being able to complete a great mix in a pro studio and equally as well on a laptop with headphones (and stock plugins) while recording and mixing in anyones garage .., but he 'put in the time' to work out the differences in listening environments using lots of trial and error comparisons to work out the correct adjustments required to still make it sound good wink


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This video demonstrates how to use the new AI-Notes feature together with the AI-Stems splitter, allowing you to select an audio file and have it separated into individual stems while transcribing each one to its own MIDI track. AI-Notes converts polyphonic audio—either full mixes or individual instruments—into MIDI that you can view in notation or play back instantly.

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Here’s just a small sampling of what you can look forward to in XPro Styles PAK 10: Soft indie folk worship songs, bumpin’ country boogies, gospel praise breaks, hard rockin’ pop, funky disco grooves, smooth Latin jazz pop, bossa nova fusion, western swing, alternative hip-hop, cool country funk, and much more!

Special offers until December 31st, 2025!

All the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 10 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!

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XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.

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Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!

We're excited to bring you our latest Xtra Styles PAK installment—the all new Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher)!

Rejoice, one and all, for Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box® is here! We’re serving up 200 brand spankin’ new styles to delight your musical taste buds! The first three courses are the classics you’ve come to know and love, including offerings from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, but, not to be outdone, this year’s fourth course is bro country! A wide ranging genre, you can find everything from hip-hop, uptempo outlaw country, hard hitting rock, funk, and even electronica, all with that familiar bro country flair. The dinner bell has been rung, pickup up Xtra Styles PAK 21 today!

In this PAK you’ll discover: Energetic folk rock, raucous train beats, fast country boogies, acid jazz grooves, laid-back funky jams, a bevy of breezy jazz waltzes, calm electro funk, indie synth pop, industrial synth metal, and more bro country than could possibly fit in the back of a pickup truck!

Special offers until December 31st, 2025!

All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 21 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 21 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!

Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 21.

Video: Xtra Styles PAK 21 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!

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