PG Music Home Forums PG Music Wishlists Band-in-a-Box Wishlist The (proposed) All new .., B.I.A.B Audiophile PRO PLUS Edition

Interesting, I did not know that. But I tested loops of 24/44.1 and they were not recognized (unless I did something wrong). So we need to convert an audiophile RealTrack to 24-bit and try it.

I tried what you suggested but it just generated up hiss, that's what 48/24 UserTracks/Loops use to do in RealBand until they fixed it.

Size of wav's was
16/44 478meg
24/48 780meg

I just found out from reading another thread that yes, we do know now that the RealTracks were apparently not recorded in a higher quality than CD quality. This observation was made by a member of the PG Music staff.

"24-bit would be nice, though older RealTracks would not be able to take advantage of the added resolution since they're all recorded in 44.1/16-bit. "

Older ? I wonder how old before higher bitrates were used 2009, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 ?

that is not good after spendin mo money on the bundle thinking your getting higher quality samples.

Yes I wonder this also .., there must have been a time when PG considered 16 bit recording too primitive and up'ed the ante to 24 bit..., at least those files would/and could be used as true 24 bit files .., as for the older 16 bit files ..,

Any old 16 bit files can still be up-coverted by PG to 24 bit to suit NEW a re-worked 24bit audiophile PRO plus BIAB (even though quality will still be 16 bit fidelity) .., as it is now - the current 16 bit files are getting up-converted anyway to 24 bit (automatically) .., as soon as they are dragged into your DAW.

..., and any new recorded files would be recorded in 24 bit also ..,

I wish PG would come out and comment on this whole thread , and comment about what their future intentions might possibly be and where they would like to be.

Surely, in any logical sense PG must have had serious goals to move BIAB forward / and move away from the 16bit environment well before any of you guys originally made those suggestions to PG years ago . That suggestion (years ago) was a fair call , and was not as if you were asking PG to design people carrying space rockets.

Even myself as a greenhorn gave away 16 bit for 24 bit back when Windows 98 made it's appearance. To see 16 bit files still in use today I feel like i've just stepped out of Dr Who's Tardis

I do not know of a time when PG Music has announced future intentions. The only people outside of PG Music that may have a clue are the beta software testers and they have to agree to remain silent in order to become a beta tester.

Hey Blue, if you have any real tracks or packs, PG Music will give you a huge discount for every pack you bought. I was able to get BIAB Audiphile 2015 for about $100-200 because of all the tracks I bought.

How's is Pro Tools 12.6.0 working for you? Backing on topic.

I would love to see an Audiophile plus version of Band-in-Box, but I see a huge problem with getting dry tracks. We do not have any idea where the tracks where recorded, who recorded them, when they where recorded, how and every how they where mixed for Band in a Box. Did the engineer(s) record the tracks dry? Did they prints fxs durring the recording? Did they reamp them durring the sessions? When mixed, did they add FXs, compression, EQ? Also, how did PG Music recieve the tracks? Did they get a dry version and a wet? It really comes down to how PG Music requested the tracks and sessions to be recorded and mixed. Also, how would PG music convert 16 bit tracks to 24 bit, and would they sound any different? One more thing to take into account for is the studio or place the tracks where recorded in. What was the size of the space? How much treatment was placed in the room? How did they mic each instrument? Last, how long ago where the RealTracks recorded? Does the studio or place still have the sessions on file? If so, can they read the files, or where they created on outdated software and computers?

I'd would love to have every track be a dry track and have 24 bit audio, but you have to understand that there are some issues with trying to accomplish such a huge task.

PS: How do you guys know that the tracks are 16bit?
P.S.S.: I check some of the drum recordings out and it sound to me like the reverb is coming from the room.

"PS: How do you guys know that the tracks are 16bit?"

http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=370565#Post370565

There have been a few other hints, but this statement just cited above is the closest we have to a definitive statement from the company. It mentions CD quality of 44.1/16. It also says "older" RealTracks, which leaves open the possibility that some recent ones may be different. As far as I know, there has been no comment on how many of the tracks were recorded 'dry'.

Some electric guitar and electric bass RealTracks have both wet and dry versions. Check for dry input variations.

The "surf" drums also have wet and dry variations.

One thing we don't know is how the magic behind the smoking mirror happens.
Therefore we have no idea what kind of undertaking it would be.
What if every single 'marker' that BiaB uses behind the scenes is related to the bitrate used? (I wouldn't doubt it).
What if every single Realtrack would have to be manually re-marked for these positions to know what section to use when generating? That would be a lot of rework.

The point is, we don't know how much work it would be to add 24-bit. Or how much benefit we would gain at this point.
My hunch; the original studio recordings are probably higher quality than 16/44 but if it means going back to square one for every single realtrack .. well that's more costly than the GUI rebuild many have been hankerin' for.

I suspect that when a SEQ file in RB is set to 24/48, the program still uses the wma or 16/44 bitrate to generate any new parts, then upconverts afterwards before writing to disk.
That order may be telling us something.

I re-encoded a RT set to 16bit 48 and 96 Khz and they still worked, it just don't like the 24bit, but I would say that is just the engine. The marker info should be in the other files XT/ST that go with the wav/wma.

Now I just tried a 24bit 48Khz wav RT set on MacBB and it worked !

Hi rhav,

YES .., It is work .., exactly ..., we all have to work - and it's no big deal

I am not sure what the point is from your post, other than acknowledging there is work involved ?
There was work involved in making my breakfast this morning . I could have gone the easy route and just made grabbed a piece of fruit
.., or I could have made Bacon & Eggs on toast with Sausages, Mushrooms, Grilled Tomato , with a side of mixed Fruit Salad , Coffee and a Juice

My point is .., The more effort = The better the outcome




RE: Your comment about Up converting 16 BIT Files ...,
(ie : if PG up-converted it's 16 bit files to 24 bit)

Most get it, but I have sensed some misconceptions about loss of fidelity .., please allow me to reiterate.

..., if ANY current BIAB 16 bit file actually got dragged dragged out of BIAB and them IMPORTED into anyones DAW ...,

- then that BIAB 16 bit BIAB file will get AUTOMATICALLY Up-Coverted to 24 bit anyway by the DAW !

.., So therefore it does not matter one iota if PG does this up-converting 'first' to 24bit (ie; from their PG originating 16 bit file) .
All that means is that when we drag that up-converted (by PG) BIAB file into our DAWS , then no more converting will need take place as its already been converted by PG....,



RE: The SPECULATION .., that some of PG's earlier BIAB files may only may archived in 16 bit ...,
(this speculation suggest there may also be 24 bit files also, so these would NOT need to be "up-converted)

Now that up-converting would ONLY be required for perhaps their absolute earlier Real tracks where (perhaps) NO previous 24bit versions could be found (ie; in PG's Archives)

My point is if you plan to use any PG BIAB file in your DAW , then "as it is in BIAB 2016" .., your DAW is currently up-converting that file anyway (presuming you are going to be using a DAW)




The reason I am saying you DAW will Automatically up-convert the 16bit BIAB file to 24 bit is ...,

- this is because these days 44.1KHz x 24bit has been the 'minimum' chosen setting being currently being undertaken by DAW users (and mostly has been for about the last 15-20 years) .

This is because when a DAW User decides to start a project in 16 bit (not 24 bit) .., then recording those tracks in 16bit results in them further getting 'smashed and mashed' within the DAW...., ie: edited , tempo mapped & time stretched , altered by FX , compressed numerous times , mixed , and then finally spat out of the DAW sounding something like the quality of a low rate 128kbps MP3
(ie: far-far below the quality of what we expect to hear from a purchased CD - which were recorded at much higher setting)


.., To suggest .., that PG should 'maybe' forget about putting in the hard work to re-think & re-evaluate it's product by putting in that extra effort to move forward (even if it means "starting from now" to make everything added from this point forward to being 24 bit) ,
..., then sorry - but I would find the too much work excuse as being really-really lame .

So lame in fact, I think not moving forward would surely result in the eventual demise of BIAB , and it wouldn't be too difficult for 'another company' to come up with a far better similar superior product that could outshine BIAB , thus resulting in no more customers for PG ..., especially as how fast the technology is progressing, plus with computers being as powerful as they are now - making even the cheapest "newer computer" more than DAW Capable.

To me (IMO) .., coming up with a few more 16 bit real tracks to add to the list, and adding few colour changes etc to the BIAB GUI >>> does NOT constitute to 'moving forward'

..., to me that just equates to giving your old car a wash and polish.

Meaning .., After a while no-one will care how shiny your old car will be because by then the paintwork has already dulled , and everyone in then admiring the sleeker,faster, shinier more technologically advanced model (please pardon the analogy)

IMO

- if PG wants to : attract a whole new range / breed of interested customers , (ie: from real Audiophiles, to home studio DAW users through to pro producers)
- if PG wants to : 'not be seen as being stuck in the stone age' ,
- if PG wants to : keep their existing customers interested enough to want to keep re-newing to later BIAB versions
ie >> as they learn new production skills , and want to add those skills to using BIAB with a DAW to get the best results possible,

...., then BIAB needs to be (at a minimum IMO) a 64 bit operating APP with samples @ 24 bit (with dry samples option)

If the world used the "too hard excuse" then we would still be driving around in Model-T Fords (oh no .., not the car analogy again)
cheers

The 2.5" WD My Passport Ultra Portable 4TB USB 3.0 Hard Drive is around $60 more than the current 2.5" WD My Passport Ultra Portable 2TB USB 3.0 Hard Drive that uses just over 1TB for the wav/aiff including the wma/m4a.

So fingers crossed for BB2017.

$30 extra per Terabyte is good value eh .., anyone would be crazy to buy the 2TB version when that much 'bang for the buck' is on offer.

But as far as PG passing on savings , I am guessing that might depends on "how many' discs had already been purchased in preparation and when they purchased them . I have seen many stores buy up big when they thought they had seen a bargain .., only to see a massive price drop a few months later .

It certainly pays to buy small quantities of discs these days on an 'as needed basis' rather than stockpile at the rates prices keep dropping.

Well with 800 forum views that's a lot of interest, a release would have to be in the pipeline ?

Yes, I am also dreaming of a "PRO" Audiophile version as well, one clearly oriented to pro or semi-pro users, who use BIAB as a way to create tracks to be further processed in a DAW, and need maximum flexibility and quality.
More specifically:

- I would LOVE to see 24bit files, even if it's just for the newer RTs. I fully understand that for many (or most) users 16bit or 24bit makes no difference at all, but for people involved in pro or semi-pro producing, that would be a HUGE difference. I would gladly pay more for higher quality tracks. To me, this would be the one, most important request for the new editions of BIAB. I'm sure I'm not the only one

- Dry tracks. Again, this would also be VERY welcome, even it's not possible for all or older tracks. DI tracks are a blessing. Again, pro or semi-pro producers would definitely prefer to have tracks that are as dry as possible (I'm not talking just about reverb, I'm talking about compression, eq etc .,.).

- Drums. I'm sure it's been requested before, but to me it would be a HUGE benefit to have the drums performances separated into different tracks (kick, snare, overheads etc). Once again, pro level producing work requires some flexibility. Of course there would be leaks - leaks are fine, any producer knows hot to deal with that. Even if it's not possible for all RTs, it's fine. Even if it's not many different mics, even just 3 or 4, that's fine. Just provide whatever degree of flexibility that is available from the original recordings.

- please PG, allow a "download only" option for the Audiophine edition. It's not about the money, it's about convenience. Especially for those (like me) living in Europe or outside the US, not being able to download right away is a significant inconvenience. Pretty please? :-)

Keep up the good work guys!

If such a thing were possible, it would be excellent if it could be delivered.