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Found this and watched.... good stuff for you folks who want to get good doubling on your vocals but can't quite nail it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14uzs13I5sIGood info here. The idea is to get doubling that doesn't sound like an obvious double... just fatter.
Last edited by Guitarhacker; 10/13/16 03:05 PM.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Nice post. Thanks for sharing.
Charlie
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Cool thanks for that. I've been struggling with doubled vocals. Harmonies too. Anyone got tips for those?
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Thanks Herb, a very interesting video which I will be trying out. Matcham, there are some useful tips on harmonies in Joanne's Blog and also from Josie and Floyd in this forum post. Cheers Rec
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Having this ..., VOCAL ALIGN ..., was the most useful tool I had for retaining professionally done natural sounding vocal doubles (and more) It works on guitars as well : http://www.synchroarts.com/products/vocalign-pro/overviewI now actually have Revoice Pro which actually includes vocal align plus much more , but vocal align on it's own is excellent. It is also not expensive to buy, and get a superb job done - much faster, and better than any other similar type plugs I tried . ______________________________________________________________________________________________________ VOCALIGN PRO 4 VocALign Pro 4 is the most advanced version of the legendary VocALign program, providing instant tight alignment of one audio signal to another. Simply capture a Guide signal with the right timing, capture a Dub signal to be aligned, press one button, and a new aligned Dub is generated and returned to your DAW. Main Features Automatically analyzes the energy patterns of two audio signals and edits one to match the timing of the other. Includes basic and advanced alignment and editing algorithms. Works with voice, musical instruments and sound effects. Provides time saving and quality benefits for ADR, tightening double tracked vocals and backing harmonies, foreign language dubbing, etc. Simple, intuitive Audio Suite, AAX, VST3 and AU plug-in integration for most popular DAWs. (See Features) The Pitch of aligned audio is unchanged. FEATURES VocALign PRO 4 automatically aligns two audio signals so that the timing of one matches the other Simple, intuitive operation with Audio Suite, AAX, VST3 and AU plug-ins work with popular DAWs Sophisticated pattern matching techniques Rejects guide track noise Works with different speakers, singers, words, instruments and sounds The aligned audio can be auditioned within VocALign PRO 4 Scrolling, scalable display allows instant visual confirmation of sync User interface allows adjustment of selected audio regions for processing User-adjustable processing presets ensure optimal performance Pitch of aligned audio is unchanged Advanced Features and Functions in VocALign Pro 4 Increased alignment accuracy:- achieved with a more sophisticated pattern recognition algorithm. Enhanced TimeMod (time compression/expansion):- optimised for single-pitch signals. Basic TimeMod algorithm also available for more complex signals. Protected signal blocks:- user can mark sections of the Replacement (Dub) signal to not be time-modified during alignment. Comprehensive audio preview options:- allows playback of sections or the whole signal(s) before and after alignment, individually or together. (In Pro Tools version) User settable Synch Points:- targets audio alignment at specified pairs of points in the two signals. Longer maximum signal length:- Up to 5 minutes Benefits using VocALign PRO Editors in film, video post production, music and multimedia now have more control over any required audio alignment editing. They will be able to target the alignment of the replacement signal (Dub) to the Guide where it is required and can keep sections of the Dub from being edited by specifying Protected areas. The Sync Points feature can help the algorithm sync matching points in very different signals. These features will be invaluable for certain types of noisy or reverberant Guide signals and especially useful for foreign dialogue replacement. In addition, the new Preview Controls allow much more detailed examination of parts or all of the two signals, together or separately, both before or after alignment to confirm the quality of editing and alignment. The other features such as improved overall quality of automatic alignment and micro-editing will save the user even more time and frustration. WHY USE VOCALIGN PRO 4? Audio Post production and multimedia Perfect lip-syncing Reduced studio time re-recording dialog More accurate and convincing foreign dialogue replacement Tighter foley and sound effects tracks Music editing Perfectly-aligned double-tracked vocals and/or instruments Tighter and clearer backing vocals Shorter overdub sessions Easy re-grooving of recorded vocals for remixing HOW DOES VOCALIGN PRO WORK? VocALign works by applying varying amounts of time stretching or compression to one signal (called the ‘Dub’) to make its energy peaks and troughs align in time with a ‘Guide’ signal. It does this in three main steps as shown in the block diagram below. VocALign analyses the captured Guide and Dub audio signals using identical spectrum analysers to produce time-varying energy patterns. Then it uses advanced pattern recognition techniques to examine the energy patterns and determine the best way to ‘warp’ the time structure of the Dub signal so that its energy pattern is matched to that of the Guide. The time-warping path describes the best time-distortion of the Dub for matching to the Guide. The time-warping path is fed to an audio editing processor that time-compresses and expands the Dub audio to create the aligned version based on the path. It is this edited version of the Dub that is returned to the audio editing software for the desired use. Note: In the above diagram, the spectrum analyser colours match those used in the VocALign screen for Guide and Dub audio signals and controls.
Last edited by SFG; 10/14/16 12:46 AM.
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Rec thanks very much for pointing me to those two harmony articles. I've just read through both and they are def 'keepers' for future reference. That was an interesting discussion in the PG Forum thread - great to hear familiar voices chiming in with their wisdom.
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Great video, Herb, thanks for sharing. I've been interested in learning more about this kinda stuff since I heard that Ozzy Osbourne refuses to even listen to his own vocals unless they're doubled.
Will - PG Music
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Cool thanks for that. I've been struggling with doubled vocals. Harmonies too. Anyone got tips for those? I never double a harmony, but you could using the very same technique. Here's my process: Main vocal: I never copy or clone a vocal. I record THREE main vocal tracks all exactly alike.... or as close as possible. I select one to be the main and the other 2 become the doubled tracks. The doubled tracks get spread 100% right and left. I drop the levels down on the doubles about 12dB or so. You should be able to hear the doubles when the tracks are soloed but not so much when in the mix. Harmony vocals: I record one high and one low or whatever else I want. I pan these about 40% right and left and drop them about 16dB below the main vocal track. NOTE: the amount I drop the doubles and harmonies will vary depending on what sound I'm trying to achieve. I like the subtle harmony that almost sounds like it's part of the lead singer's voice and not a "Statler Brothers" kind of in your face harmony. EQ cuts, compression and reverb are all to taste.... remembering that quite often, less is more.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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That's interesting you never double a harmony given the tips in the links above, esp Joanne's blog. Different music styles I suppose.
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That's interesting you never double a harmony given the tips in the links above, esp Joanne's blog. Different music styles I suppose. by my count... at the point I start to mix... I have 5 vocal tracks minimum. One main lead, two doubled, and two harmonies... one low and one high.... that's 5. If I have another vocalist, double that. That's a lot of work in the final mix. Since the harmonies are so much lower in the mix the way I work, there's really not much benefit to recording and treating a number of harmony tracks. I tend to keep the harmonies down at the lower end, where the listener is barely able to hear them as a separate and distinct track. So in that case, a single track works extremely well. When I first started, I was using doubling on the harmony. However, I soon discovered that it was not really noticeable and therefore not needed and by using just a single low and a single high harmony, the mix was a bit cleaner and certainly easier to work on.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Again that's very interesting and useful Herb. I certainly hear ya when it comes to keeping things simple. Jeez I even throw a stereo delay on my main vocal to avoid dealing with excess tracks. (I treat the delay so it has its own sound.)
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Very interesting discussion of how to double vocals. I think I will have to try some of what the video suggests. Earlier this year, I did probably most of the doubling and harmonies on one song that I've attempted, and I'm not entirely pleased with how the doubling turned out. Particularly, the overall vocal levels throughout the song varies too much. I have wanted to go back and remix this song, and this might just give me the gumption to do so. Before mix: https://soundcloud.com/rockstar_not/scott-lake-and-fort-elmfield-tin-soldier
Last edited by rockstar_not; 10/16/16 02:48 PM.
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The whole point is this.....
There really isn't "one way" to do this right. Find what works best for you by experimenting with the info presented here and develop your own template that you use and then refine it by tweeking it.
Everything presented here does work.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Here is a great video you guys can benefit from : Cleaning Up Stacked Vocals - Into The Lair #149 .., Pensado's Place LINK : https://youtu.be/pO9PqJJYteI
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I enjoyed the video SFG and also wanted to say I'm enjoying your contributions to the forum. Hope to see more from you.
Charlie
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