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A chord with b9 is ever a dominant 7 chord
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A chord with b9 is ever a dominant 7 chord Are you sure this statement is written as you meant it?
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More than thirty years ago, I was fortunate enough to attend a masterclass of maestro Joe Pass at the jazz festival in Vitoria, Spain. One of the lessons that was recorded in my mind was his explanation that for him only three families of chords existed, Major, minor and dominant 7. He emphasized that for him the diminished chords were dominant 7h b9 chords.
IMHO Note b9 in major or minor chords is an erroneous note.
I do not remember ever having found a score in the Realbooks with b9 alteration in a chord other than dominant 7h.
Sorry for my english, I'm using google translator.
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Rafa,
Google translator did a great job of translating Spanish to English!
Many theory books agree with Joe Pass and treat a diminished 7th chord as a dominant 7th with a flattened 9th that does not have the root present. For example, in the key of C, Bdim7 (B-D-F-Ab) is often easiest thought of G7b9 (G-B-D-F-Ab) without the G.
Regards,
Noel
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So the translation of "is ever" means, "is always". I thought it might have been a typo for 'is never', which is why I checked.
I don't think I've ever written a b9 without a dominant 7th, either. I'll check as I go through my songs and report if I find a b9 that does not have a dominant 7th.
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So the translation of "is ever" means, "is always. That's right, that's what I meant. Now I understand. The truth is that I was surprised by your comment because you are a great musician. I know your excellent Brazilian Wish recording, very beautiful music. I am also a great lover of Brazilian music ;-) Bests regards Rafa Toledo
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BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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The only chord that I know of that has a flatted 9th with no seventh is the major sus4 flat9 chord; for example Csus4b9. See here: https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Music_Theory/Complete_List_of_Chord_Patterns
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And let's not forget about minor chord with a flat 9 and no 7th. Those can't be that obscure, particularly in the context of improvisation or scales.
Last edited by Icelander; 05/28/17 05:35 AM. Reason: Correcting mistakes
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Speaking of 'forget' - It appears that I myself forgot that I had already raised that "minor chord" issue before, in this very thread 
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should!
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The only chord that I know of that has a flatted 9th with no seventh is the major sus4 flat9 chord; for example Csus4b9.
I have never met this chord in 40 years of music career! Curious to see a music score showing this chord !
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Unless I missed something, you can't enter that in BIAB either. You can enter C7susb9 but I don't think Csusb9 can be entered. All sus chords in BIAB have 7, 9 or 13.
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Hi Mario, I've used the sus4 with b9 on several songs I've written. It has a bit of a "mysterious" sound to it that I like. Also, as an example, if you make an Asus4b9 and then change the "A" note to a C, you now have a C9. Just a couple of random thoughts that crossed my mind! Alan
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