|
Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
|
RealBand
|
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 62
Enthusiast
|
OP
Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 62 |
The master effects are post fader which seems wrong to me.
Adjusting this fader seems to have the same affect as the adjust all volume fader.
The individual tracks have the effects pre fader which is what I would expect.
Is this a bug or am I missing something?
Ron
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
RealBand
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 8,021
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 8,021 |
Each audio track has an "FX" button. These are inserts and are pre fader. The master has "FX" buttons that are also inserts and are pre fader. Each track also has an "AUX SEND" that is post fader. Above the Master faders are the 8 Master AUX busses were the effects are used.
This is standard console convention except that on a real console "AUX SENDS" can ussually be set to either pre or post fader. If your using an "AUXSEND" for monitors it has to be pre fader.
Inserts are typically used for DYNAMIC EFFECTS like compressors were "AUX SENDS" are used for reverb.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
RealBand
|
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 62
Enthusiast
|
|
OP
Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 62 |
Thanks for the reply
As I said in my original post, the Master FX is NOT pre fader as you suggest.
Is ther an option that I have switched off?
Thanks
Ron
Line 6 Guitar Port Gear Box POD Farm Pedal Steel Guitar My Music
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
RealBand
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 8,021
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 8,021 |
Ron
I think we have a terminology problem.
There are 3 spots were effects can be entered that have the "FX" button
1. Above each track- this is a prefade track insert
2. above each master output - this is a prefade master insert
3. the 8 outs above the master - these are post fader aux send/returns and are affected by the aux send 1-4 on each track as well as the send return level of the buss.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
RealBand
|
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 62
Enthusiast
|
|
OP
Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 62 |
I agree with the terminology
Your number 2 is the inserts I'm referring to.
These inserts are NOT pre fader using either the fader right below FX
or The adjust all fader.
Line 6 Guitar Port Gear Box POD Farm Pedal Steel Guitar My Music
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
RealBand
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 8,021
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 8,021 |
Now actually my terminology was a little off here.
#2 are not masters but sub-groups
All = master.
The effects seem to be aplied post the all fader as well.
I used 2 separate outs and installed a peak limit in G1 & G2 sub group. The sub group fader affects the drive level individually to each installed effect. The ALL slider affects the drive level to both effects in G1 & G2.
"tis a little weird.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
RealBand
|
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 62
Enthusiast
|
|
OP
Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 62 |
Thanks for your reply,
That is the same results I got and called PG support and they came to same conclusion.
They seem to think this is normal. If this is so it would be nice to have an option.
I use another sequencer and it's master effects are pre fader.
If you find out anything more let me know.
Thanks again
Ron
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
RealBand
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 8,021
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 8,021 |
In the real world, hardware consoles, Master inserts are always prefader otherwise they'd be the main output jacks! In Sonar they are pre fader . In Adobe Audition they are default pre fader but can be set post fader.
I hate to say it but RB is not right. I never checked just assumed.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
RealBand
|
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 62
Enthusiast
|
|
OP
Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 62 |
That's what I always thought. I was trying to get a similar sound with Real Band as I got with n-Tracks (Master effects pre fader) and was never satified with the comparison. I started looking for differences and plugged an insert I could monitor into the master output and discovered the default setting of post fader. I was able to duplicate the sound by mixing down a song to a WAV file, bring it back up add effects to the track FX, render to new WAV file, bring it back, insert effects in the track FX and render final version. (Interesting but a waste of time)
I stared this thread in the hopes there was an option that I was not familiar with that would change this. So I guess I'll continue to use n-Tracks as my final mix down.
By the way the fellow at support seemed not to grasp the significance of this so it might be worth pursuing. Wish List?
Ron
Line 6 Guitar Port Gear Box POD Farm Pedal Steel Guitar My Music
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
RealBand
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 8,021
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 8,021 |
I emailed Peter & Andrew directly about this.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
RealBand
|
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 62
Enthusiast
|
|
OP
Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 62 |
Great
I placed in the wish list.
Line 6 Guitar Port Gear Box POD Farm Pedal Steel Guitar My Music
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
RealBand
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 22,648
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 22,648 |
What kind of FX are you using on a final output that you would need to control the input to with a fader? Don't those effects have an input level adjustment?
If not, just put something like PGPeakLimit in front of it and use the output of that to adjust the signal going to the next effect..
There are ways to adjust the signal going into the final output other than the final slider..
..so I wonder in what situation this would be a critical issue..
curiosity is all.
Final output slider is always at 100% here and needed adjustments are made elsewhere.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
RealBand
|
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 62
Enthusiast
|
|
OP
Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 62 |
The situation is not controlling the input to the effect. The object is to not change the effect with the output fader.
If you have a way of doing this I would appreciate your input.
Ron
Line 6 Guitar Port Gear Box POD Farm Pedal Steel Guitar My Music
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
RealBand
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 22,648
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 22,648 |
A simple Master Limiter plugin after the effect(s) needed would compensate. Use the Fader to control the input into the final chain of effects (which on my system is always at full up), and use something like PGPeakLimit (last in the chain) to control the actual final output. Of course other tools will give more accurate results for measuring levels in different ways than PGPeakLimit, but it would be servicable to some extent, especially if you comparing by ear to other recording software.
This may be a feature for mastering. I can put my mastering effects in the final output slots and trust that what comes out of them is what I am getting for a digital mixdown, it's not altered through another slider afterwards..when levels count. How would you measure a signal after the final slider then? Just your soundcard mixer VU's? Or another standalone?
I kinda like the idea for some applications.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
RealBand
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 8,021
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 8,021 |
Bob,
If you put any effect that has a meter in the master effects insert and move the fader the signal to that effect changes. It should not. It's an insert.
Now in live sound your drive rack ( EQ, compressor etc. ) do come after the master faders so in some instances the way RB is wired is OK. It's just not what other programs do. Nor is it wired as an insert should be. Sonar has this insert before the master fader. Audition gives you a choice . The idea is to be able to move the fader without having the drive level to the inserted effect change. It's not a big deal to me however it's not conventional.
Another way to look at it also, and this may be PG's view, is that the Master is really the control on your soundcard.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
RealBand
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 8,021
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 8,021 |
Ron here's how you can do this.
In pref. make sure the box use unused outputs as sub groups is checked.
Assign your tracks to sub groups and put you effects into the subgroup.They will be labeled "G"
Now when you move the fader with the "A" the effects drive level stays the same. It's still unconventional but may help out. If you move the fader for the subgroup it still affects the effects.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
RealBand
|
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 62
Enthusiast
|
|
OP
Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 62 |
Thanks,
That works. It is what I've been use to.
Ron
Last edited by RioRicoRon; 07/09/09 04:22 PM.
Line 6 Guitar Port Gear Box POD Farm Pedal Steel Guitar My Music
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
RealBand
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 22,648
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 22,648 |
Quote:
Bob,
If you put any effect that has a meter in the master effects insert and move the fader the signal to that effect changes. It should not. It's an insert.
Now in live sound your drive rack ( EQ, compressor etc. ) do come after the master faders so in some instances the way RB is wired is OK. It's just not what other programs do. Nor is it wired as an insert should be. Sonar has this insert before the master fader. Audition gives you a choice . The idea is to be able to move the fader without having the drive level to the inserted effect change. It's not a big deal to me however it's not conventional.
Another way to look at it also, and this may be PG's view, is that the Master is really the control on your soundcard.
I guess you don't understand my mastering explanation above.
I have invested a bit of $$ in plugins for mastering. Some are specific meter functions, measuring the P/A and RMS accurately (I assume).
Why would I want my signal going thru one last fader to mess up those carefully set levels?
When you say PGMusic is considering the soundcard the 'master', it's like saying the volume on the amp is the master, or the volume knob for powered monitors.
What I am talking about here is the digital signal that is getting written at merge down. That is all we should be concerned with. The actual listening volume should be controlled elsewhere. Two different things, man..
If you understand that what comes out of that final output FX is the signal that gets written to the stereo wav file, I don't see why you would want to run it thru one last fader..after any chance to measure the real effect has passed.
We are not talking about a live mixer you adjust by ear to the room, it is a recording mixer with accurate monitoring capabilities, as it is now.
As for how to control the output volume without affecting the input to the FX chain, I still think putting PGPeakLimit in the last FX slot would be the simplest way (or just turning your speaker volume down), if you did want to control the output volume for some reason. But remember it is affecting what you are writing to file..
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
RealBand
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 8,021
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 8,021 |
I'm trying to turn over a new leaf and not argue.
The soundcard recording control is indeed a part of the chain and is not synonymous with the controls on a power amp. The wav out controls are.
That being said the bottom line here is ,and that was Ron's question, Inserts are always pre fader or preferably switchable. Effects in the tracks pre fade, effects in the sub groups pre fade and because this is not a hardware mixer it is indeed nice to be able to but things in the master chain post fade like my drive rack.
The end.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
RealBand
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 22,648
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 22,648 |
Not trying to argue, thought you really didn't understand why it was set up as it is ; I do believe it was by design. Jeff is pretty smart that way. As for the soundcard controls, they do not affect the 'write' process when mixing down, that is why I made that comparison; they are only 'outside' volume controls. We were only discussing the outputs, not recroding.. luv ya man  thanx for staying cool..
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Last Chance! The Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac® Special Ends Today (May 31, 2026) at 11:59pm PDT!
Time really is running out! Save up to 50% on Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac® upgrades and receive a FREE Bonus PAK—only when you order by 11:59 PM PDT today!
We've added many major new features and new content in a redesigned Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
Version 2026 introduces a modernized GUI redesign across the program, with updated toolbars, refreshed windows, smoother workflows, and a new Dark Mode option. There’s also a new side toolbar for quicker access to commonly used windows, and the new Multi-View feature lets you arrange multiple windows as layered panels without overlap, making it easier to customize your workspace.
Another exciting new addition is the amazing new AI-Notes feature, which can transcribe polyphonic audio into MIDI. View the results in notation or play them back as MIDI, and choose whether to transcribe an entire track or transcribe specific parts like drums, bass, guitars/piano, or vocals. There's over 100 new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®.
There's an amazing collection of new content too, including 202 RealTracks, new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two RealDrums Stems sets, and much more!
Upgrade your Band-in-a-Box for Mac® to save up to 50% on most Band-in-a-Box® 2026 upgrade packages!
Plus, when you order your Band-in-a-Box® 2026 Mac upgrade during our special, you'll receive a Free Bonus PAK of exciting new add-ons.
If you need any help deciding which package is the best option for you, just let us know. We are here to help!
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 Mac Special Offers Extended Until May 31st!
Good news- we've extended our Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac® special offers until May 31, 2026!
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 is packed with major new features, enhancements, and an incredible lineup of new content! The program now sports a sleek, modern GUI redesign across the entire interface, including updated toolbars, refreshed windows, smoother workflows, a new dark mode option, and more. The brand-new side toolbar provides quicker access to key windows, while the new Multi-View feature lets you arrange multiple windows as layered panels without overlap, creating a flexible, clutter-free workspace. We have an amazing new “AI-Notes” feature. This transcribes polyphonic audio into MIDI so you can view it in notation or play it back as MIDI. You can transcribe an entire track (all pitched instruments and drums) or focus on individual parts like drums, bass, guitars/piano, or vocals. There's an amazing collection of new content too, including 202 RealTracks, new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two RealDrums Stems sets, and much more!
There are over 100 new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®.
When you order purchase Band-in-a-Box® 2026 before 11:59 PM PDT on May 31st, you'll also receive a Free Bonus PAK packed with exciting new add-ons.
Check out the Band-in-a-Box® for Mac packages page to find the best package for you.
Holiday Weekend Hours
It's Victoria Day Long Weekend in Canada. Our Customer Service hours are:
Saturday, May 16: Closed
Sunday, May 17: Closed
Monday, May 18: 8:00am - 4:00pm
Regular hours resume Tuesday, May 19th!
Today's the Last Day of the Band-in-a-Box 2026® for Mac Special!
Order before 11:59pm PDT today (May 15, 2026) to save up to 50% off your Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac® upgrade and receive a FREE Bonus PAK loaded with great new Add-ons to use with this new version!
Don't wait - order today!
Check out all the new features in the redesigned Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac - Special Offers End at 11:59pm PDT on Friday, May 15th, 2026!
Order before 11:59pm PDT on Friday, May 15th and SAVE up to 50% on most Band-in-a-Box® version 2026 for Mac Upgrade packages... and that's not all! With your version 2026 for Mac purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks... that's 222 NEW RealTracks available with version Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac!
Upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac® today for as little as $49! Check out the Band-in-a-Box® packages page for all available purchase options.
Learn more about the Free Bonus PAK and 49-PAK here.
If you have any questions about which package is the best option for you, just let us know. We're here to help!
202 New RealTracks Released with Band-in-a-Box 2026!
With Band-in-a-Box® 2026, we've released 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 468-488) in a variety of genres—featuring your most requested styles!
Jazz, Funk & World (Sets 468-475):
Our new jazz, funk & blues RealTracks include a groovin’ collection of RealTracks and RealDrums! These include more requested “soul jazz” RealTracks featuring artists Neil Swainson (bass), Charles Treadway (organ), Brent Mason (guitar), and Wes Little (drums). There are new “smooth jazz” styles (4), which include a RealTracks first: muted trumpet, as well as slick new smooth jazz brushes options for drums. Blues lovers will be thrilled—there are more “classic acoustic blues” styles, including guitar (5), bass (4), and drums (10) with blues master Colin Linden, featuring understated and tasty background acoustic soloing, plus brushes drums and acoustic bass. There are also new electric blues RealTracks, including electric blues with PG favorite Johnny Hiland (3) and soulful electric slide guitar from Colin Linden (4). If you love funk & gospel, there are great new options this year, including gospel organ (3) from Charles Treadway, as well as new funk, tango, and rock ’n’ roll drums (3) and bass (1). And for big, bold arrangements, we have uptempo soul horns (4) featuring a three-part hip horn section with options for a full mix or stems of each individual horn — plus an accompanying rhythm section (4) of drums, bass, guitar, and electric piano!
Rock & Pop (Sets 476–482):
Our new rock & pop RealTracks bring a powerful mix of requested favorites, fresh genres, and modern chart-inspired styles! We have more of our popular “Producer Layered Acoustic Guitars (15)” featuring Band-in-a-Box favorite Brent Mason. We’ve continued our much-requested disco styles (10), and added new Celtic guitar (5) with a more basic, accessible approach than our previous Drop-D or DADGAD offerings. There are also highly requested yacht rock styles (17), inspired by the smooth, polished soft-rock sound of the late ’70s and early ’80s — laid-back grooves, silky electric pianos, warm textures, elegant harmonic movement, and pristine production aesthetics. Fans of heavier styles will love our new glam metal (13), capturing the flashy, high-energy sound of ’80s arena-ready guitar rock. We also have a set of rootsy modern-folk rock (18), with a warm, organic sound combining contemporary folk textures and driving acoustic strumming. And we’ve added lots of new modern pop styles (16) — the kinds of sounds you’re hearing on the radio today, featuring exciting new drums, synths, and cutting-edge RealTracks arrangements.
Country, & Americana (Sets 483–488):
Our new country & Americana RealTracks deliver a rich collection of acoustic, electric, and roots-inspired styles! We have new country pop (9) with legendary guitarist Brent Mason. There is also a potpourri (14) of bouzouki, guitars, banjo, and more, perfect for adding texture and character to contemporary acoustic arrangements. We’ve added funky country guitar (5) with PG favorite Brent Mason, along with classic pedal steel styles (5) featuring steel great Doug Jernigan. There are more country songwriter styles (8) that provide intimate, rootsy foundations for storytelling and modern Americana writing. Finally, we have “background soloing” acoustic guitar (12) with Brent Mason — simpler, but still very tasty acoustic lines designed to sit beautifully behind vocals or act as a subtle standalone solo part.
Check out all the 202 new RealTracks (in sets 468-488)!
And, if you are looking for more, the 2026 49-PAK (for $49) includes an impressive collection of 20 bonus RealTracks, featuring exciting and inspiring additions to add to your RealTracks library. You'll get new country-rhythm guitar styles from PG Music favorites Johnny Hiland and Brent Mason, along with modern-pop grooves that capture today’s radio-ready sound! There are also new indie-folk styles with guitar, bass, 6-string bass used as a high-chording instrument, acoustic guitar, and banjo. Plus, dedicated "cymbal fills" RealDrums provide an added layer that work very well with low-key folky styles with other percussion.
The 2026 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2026 49-PAK!
2026 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
With your version 2026 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons for FREE! Or upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2026 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 27 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 25 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 12 new RealStyles.
- MIDI Styles Set 92: Look Ma! More MIDI 15: Latin Jazz
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 46: Piano & Organ
- Instrumental Studies Set 24: Groovin' Blues Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 19: Songs with Vocals 9
- Playable RealTracks Set 5
- RealDrums Stems Set 9: Cool Brushes
- SynthMaster Sounds Set 1 (with audio demos)
- iOS Android Band-in-a-Box® App
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyle.
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- MIDI Styles Set 93: Look Ma! More MIDI 16: SynthMaster
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 47: More SynthMaster
- Instrumental Studies 25 - Soul Jazz Guitar Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 20: Songs with Vocals 10
- RealDrums Stems Set 10: Groovin' Sticks
- SynthMaster Sounds & Styles Set 2 (sounds & styles with audio demos)
Learn more about the Bonus PAK and 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums57
Topics86,438
Posts805,129
Members40,121
| |
Most Online64,515
Apr 8th, 2026
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean