Hi All, I wish to start on my 6/8 style song. But I have a little problem finding a drum beat that would suit the chorusus. To get a 6/8 feel, I understand I must use a 3/4 style and use 2 bars instead of one??( 2x 3/4 6/8)
I have found a few 3/4 time styles at 140 BPM which will be OK and useable for the feel I am after, but for the chorusus I need an extra beat or a something that sounds faster in the rythymn if thats the right terminology, somehwere in the drums.Otherwise my choruses wont be much different from the verse.
How would one go about making this extra beat? what would a drummer do in this scenario? more hits on a snare? Has anyone added exra beats with midi to make this work? I hope someone understands what I'm looking for and can point me in the right direction. Many Thanks in anticipation of your help. Paul
First, have you tried the A/B styles and variations for the ones you have (assuming you are using RealDrums)? If they are MIDI (instead of RealDrums) adding drums should be pretty easy.
Also, sometimes there are raw samples of the drums at the end of the WMA file that can be used/added to the existing beats.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome Make your sound your own!
I have delved a little more into the drum beats and what you suggested with the variations will work. I see that when you choose one from the Real Drums illustration you show above it is added to the blue or green (a or b style)in the chords section.
I find that when I then go into RB I put in another couple of drum tracks or other instruments and then have to chop/cut and edit with many styles to get near to the feel I am after, Is this usual for putting your tracks together? I dont see another way but its no problem, just takes a little time to do but as your statement says. ''Make the sound your own''
Slicing/Dicing, i.e., "comping" is the key IMO to getting RT's and RD's to fit "your" song. All of our productions contain tracks that are comped from multiple regenerations. Do folks notice? Dunno. But I enjoy doing it and attempting to get everything from solos to rhythm tracks to support Janice's vocal. FWIW, etc.,
Bud
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos are here on our website.
Is there a song in 6/8 that you want to emulate? If you can import an audio file into some DAWs, you can overlay a MIDI grid on top of the audio and drop in midi where you hear the extra stuff that your drum track might not have in it. Of course the first step is matching the tempo of the project with the tempo of the audio file.
I would be careful making 6/8 too active, however. You might just need to swing it a little, if there's no swing in the beat.
Thank you for giving an idea to try, because I'm at a loss at the moment and going around in circles changing, cutting slicing dicing styling..............not to mention the odd cursing!
I didn't purposely set out to write a song in 6/8, it was only now when I am trying to put together a beat to my lyrics and melody that I realise it is 6/8 time.
The song is fairly folky when I sang it but it could be hard rock too.
Can you imagine a soldier in days gone by with red coats and the drummer boy beating on the snare going into battle, well thats the sort of image the song conjures up BUT I have tried nearly every pattern in BIAB and nothing matches, if I find a beat near the guitars are off etc etc. 3/4 just don't swing it for my song...............so
I have today, downloaded the free version of MT drums and just in the middle of experimenting with it in my Mixcraft DAW.
There are quite a few 6/8 versions plus fills. I have noticed that the 3/4 time in BIAB is now twice as quick as the MT drums. For example the 3/4 style I used in BIAB is 140BPM but if I wish to use the MT drums over the song it has to be 70BPM . I have only listened to it once but it seemed a little out of sync, but maybe it needs a tweek.
Before I go and spend another 3 days trying various styles has anyone come across the problem and would I be on the right course for finding a workaround to solve my little problem.
My other problem is of course I cant fingerpick the guitar well enough to give the groove I want so I must rely on my 'Band in a box' to do its best.
I have jumped from folk to country to hard rock to celtic, I can't shelf the song because I told my wife I had written it for her so I must continue.
I didn't purposely set out to write a song in 6/8, it was only now when I am trying to put together a beat to my lyrics and melody that I realise it is 6/8 time.
Can you imagine a soldier in days gone by with red coats and the drummer boy beating on the snare going into battle, well thats the sort of image the song conjures up BUT I have tried nearly every pattern in BIAB and nothing matches, if I find a beat near the guitars are off etc etc. 3/4 just don't swing it for my song...............so
There are quite a few 6/8 versions plus fills. I have noticed that the 3/4 time in BIAB is now twice as quick as the MT drums. For example the 3/4 style I used in BIAB is 140BPM but if I wish to use the MT drums over the song it has to be 70BPM . I have only listened to it once but it seemed a little out of sync, but maybe it needs a tweek.
Before I go and spend another 3 days trying various styles has anyone come across the problem and would I be on the right course for finding a workaround to solve my little problem.
My other problem is of course I cant fingerpick the guitar well enough to give the groove I want so I must rely on my 'Band in a box' to do its best.
I have jumped from folk to country to hard rock to celtic, I can't shelf the song because I told my wife I had written it for her so I must continue.
Paul
I definitely feel your pain. while BB is an excellent resource, sometimes to get what you want, you have to think and work out of the box (pun intended). Despite there being thousands of styles available in BB, there are certain to be some that they missed. I've tried the very thing you mentioned.... change BB tempo to try to get it to emulate a certain groove. That didn't work. When one or more tracks sounded good, the drums were so far off from the groove it wasn't funny and vice versa.
Since that song wasn't what I considered to be one of my better songs at the time, I just set it aside and let it collect dust.
If you are able to get one of the tracks to work.... maybe by soloing the drums and changing the tempo, export that track to a good DAW. Perhaps you will need to have several different BB projects to get all the tracks you want. Maybe you will need to call on the services of a real musician to play a certain guitar, or bass part, or maybe use a synth and midi to capture that drum track correctly with the right groove.
I mentioned a "good DAW". Having one is crucial to doing things outside of the box. Many DAW's have audio snap features where you can let the DAW snap or sync the audio that might be slightly out of time. Slicing, dicing, and gluing it all back together again is easy in a good DAW.
So... if you can get the groove you need from one or more BB tracks.... export those to a DAW. In the DAW, use a drum synth to get the drum track..... find live musicians to assist on the parts that you're not able to complete in software and see how it turns out.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.
The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
Thanks GH for understanding my predicament. Having experienced something similar yourself I now know its not all down to my 'newbiness' and I feel reassured that what I am doing, albeit labourious, is kind of on the right track.
The feel for the song has changed many times and that hasn't helped my state of mind, however I imported a few instruments to my DAW again (for the zillionth time) and can now make a clean start with a goal in mind.
You mention a 'Good'DAW, I use Mixcraft 7. After trialing several DAW's this one was more user friendly for me, others were too complicated for my expertise, or lack of! Putting tracks down and cutting dicing n splicing is OK to do, the mixing and Mastering on the other hand is something I am still working on and trying to get my head around what all these things do, and I'm sure this is the case with every DAW. I must say your recordings are first class GH.
I would love to find a musician to work with me but my Bulgarian language skills leaves a lot to be desired and so unfortunatley I must plod on solo. I did do a couple of numbers with a friend of mine who still lives in the UK a couple of years ago. He is a great guitar player but he is also a very busy man and trying to peice things together 2000 miles apart was not easy for us.
Anyway thank you for your reply to the post. It has certainly reassured me that I am not alone in this scenario, but with a little thinking 'outside the box', somethings are still acheivable.
You mention a 'Good'DAW, I use Mixcraft 7. After trialing several DAW's this one was more user friendly for me,
I would love to find a musician to work with me but my Bulgarian language skills leaves a lot to be desired and so unfortunatley I must plod on solo.
Paul
A good DAW IMHO is any DAW that lets you work easily to accomplish the job. It should support the VST's you use and allow easy use of envelopes for automating the features in the mix.
Ever heard of the internet? I have collaborated with singers, and other musicians literally around the other side of the planet. As long as you both have a DAW and access to the net, you can work. For example, if you simply need a guitar solo in a song, you ask the guitarist to send you a full track starting at the first measure.... it can be silence up to the solo. That makes track alignment simple. I have had people send me just the clipped part they were playing and that is a PITA to line up 100% accurately.
Yep...sometimes BB forces me to have to think creatively to get things done or in some cases, to fall back to plan B and seek a different route.
Last edited by Guitarhacker; 03/18/1702:36 AM.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.
The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
Mixcraft is a very capable DAW, complete with notation capability. I am pretty sure you can line up audio tracks over or under midi tracks and help you to add in midi notes where you can see audio cues.
I worked with Mixcraft for almost two years before migrating to Studio One. In fact it was Mixcraft that helped me actually get comfortable with the "Language" of mix engineers and helped me get my head wrapped around a lot of technical stuff that just plain confused me at first. Anyone new to In The Box mixing (and uses Windows of course) I would recommend Mixcraft to. I looked into other DAW's like Reaper, but for me Reaper was way too over the top. Linda & I are a songwriting team, so often times she would write lyrics, and I'd have an instant idea of the arrangement. Reaper by it's very nature kills that instant spark thing as it requires a lot of pre recording set up. DAW's like MC and Studio One allow for nearly instant tracking when the spark of creativity occurs. So it was almost a natural migration from MC to S1. In my opinion only, S1 takes the best part of MC and Pro Tools and found a way to make them converge. When you add Band in A Box and Real Band to the forumula you almost have a total studio environment with top flight studio session players waiting in the room to record your music. Can't see anything but "up" from this amazing combination of software. Almost like they are married.
I looked into other DAW's like Reaper, but for me Reaper was way too over the top. Linda & I are a songwriting team, so often times she would write lyrics, and I'd have an instant idea of the arrangement. Reaper by it's very nature kills that instant spark thing as it requires a lot of pre recording set up.
All you needed to do was set up a template ...essentially you set up a project to record and you do it one time. Add the synths you like and get it ready to go. Save it as a BLANK TEMPLATE and when you get ready to start a new project you simply load it and waaa laaa,,, it's ready to go in seconds.
No setup time required when the muse hits.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.
The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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