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<...snip...>
I've been in the bands that had the attitude that we're strictly a country rock band, and we don't play pop country and heck no we don't do MOR pop. That's a hard, lean road because you run out of places that will hire you pretty quickly and those one time gigs are not the road to success. <...> It helps to be a chameleon and learn to play many different styles unless you are in a big enough city where there are enough venues asking for the same kind of music. I played in a jazzy-pop band and somebody came up and asked for Patsy Cline's "Crazy". The keyboard player refused to play it. We didn't get fired, but we never got re-hired there. Not for that one song, but for his general attitude. And of course, you have the musicians who won't play "Brown Eyed Girl", "Mustang Sally" or "_____________". Some people think playing songs that are beneath their self-valued artistic integrity is a sell-out, and they have every right to think that way. Others think that taking a day-job so that you can play your 'art music' once a week for drinks and tips is another form of selling out, and they have every right to think that way. But if you want to make a living at this, you must be commercial. Of course commercial depends on the market. Beethoven, Tchaikovsky, Bach, Bachman Turner Overdrive, Stan Getz, Wes Montgomery, Led Zeppelin, and just about every other successful musician or group is/was commercial. If you are a great chef and you want to open a restaurant in a small, unsophisticated, rural town that loves it's hamburgers and BBQ you might not be able to make a living cooking French Cuisine. The choice would be to move to a town that supports your art, or start cooking burgers and perhaps put a special of the day with your art food. We play commercial music. We save requests, and the songs that get requested most frequently get learned first, that is as long as we can cover them. Why? I have fun playing music, and it really doesn't matter to me that much what I am playing. I just put on whatever attitude I need for the song, and give it the best I can while losing myself in the music. On the other hand, we do sneak in an occasional song for us. Once you have the audience on your side you can slide something in as long as it isn't too hard-core in the wrong direction. A few suggestions if you want to make a living at playing music (in no particular order): - Show up on time - the manager knows how to tell time more than how to judge artistic integrity
- Don't take long breaks, in fact, if the crowd is jamming, consider skipping your breaks or playing a little later - give a little more and you will likely get more in return. I've played many a club where we played straight through and late when the club was jamming and the manager sent us home early on dead nights.
- Be nice and pleasant with the management, staff, and the customers -- even if they don't deserve it. The staff will be on your side if you work nicely with them and if you p1ss off customers, you aren't coming back
- Remember, whatever is good for the house is good for the band. They hired you to help them make a profit, and never forget that's your job. Knowing a customer's favorite song, remembering their name, promoting the special of the day, skipping a break, or whatever. I repeat, what is good for the house is good for the band.
- Be commercial for that club. Play what the audience wants to hear and do your best to pace what you play and when you play it to fill the needs of the audience.
- Dress appropriately for the gig, whether it is torn blue jeans or a tuxedo
- Play at appropriate volume levels, that can be loud or soft depending on the demand
- Make sure your gear is in good shape. Nobody wants to see you struggle with equipment. Of course, things happen (it's usually a cable) so carry spares of whatever you can, cables, extra mic, if your act depends on a synth - an extra synth module, guitar strings, and so on. The show must go on.
- Smile and/or look like you are having a great time playing music - it's contagious.
- Promote yourself - but that's the subject of an entirely different post
The market for musicians are shrinking, the competition for the entertainment of the public has many new entries, I see live music as a declining market right now, so get creative, give extra, be commercial, and do a better job than your musical competition. Or get a day job and play what you want to when you want to if you can find a place to do it. There is no wrong answer. Insights and incites by Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton  Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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That particular "country rock only" band was short lived and filled with strife. Talk about the proverbial "poor musicians"... we embodied that. I remember setting in my living room bundled up in coats, because I couldn't afford heating oil for the furnace, learning yet another non-danceable country rock song.
After that band broke up, I was hired into a working band that drew large crowds everywhere they went and we played a wide variety of music. The drummer at the time didn't sing but had a mic and the gift of gab so he was constantly talking to the audience and pushing the bar specials between songs. I could afford to heat my home, pay the rent on time, and eat regular meals.
Everyone was having a good time, the place was packed and the feeling was contagious. The owner was happy with every ring of the cash register and paying customer so things were good.
If people had a special request and we even halfway knew the song, we would attempt to play the song and most times it came out just fine. we'd start by saying "we really don't know this song but we're going to try it anyway..." and even if the song was not perfect, the person who requested it always, always appreciated that we attempted it for them. Most often the requests were songs that everyone knew and were often on our songs list anyway.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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PG Music Staff
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A few suggestions if you want to make a living at playing music (in no particular order): - Show up on time - the manager knows how to tell time more than how to judge artistic integrity
- Don't take long breaks, in fact, if the crowd is jamming, consider skipping your breaks or playing a little later - give a little more and you will likely get more in return. I've played many a club where we played straight through and late when the club was jamming and the manager sent us home early on dead nights.
- Be nice and pleasant with the management, staff, and the customers -- even if they don't deserve it. The staff will be on your side if you work nicely with them and if you p1ss off customers, you aren't coming back
- Remember, whatever is good for the house is good for the band. They hired you to help them make a profit, and never forget that's your job. Knowing a customer's favorite song, remembering their name, promoting the special of the day, skipping a break, or whatever. I repeat, what is good for the house is good for the band.
- Be commercial for that club. Play what the audience wants to hear and do your best to pace what you play and when you play it to fill the needs of the audience.
- Dress appropriately for the gig, whether it is torn blue jeans or a tuxedo
- Play at appropriate volume levels, that can be loud or soft depending on the demand
- Make sure your gear is in good shape. Nobody wants to see you struggle with equipment. Of course, things happen (it's usually a cable) so carry spares of whatever you can, cables, extra mic, if your act depends on a synth - an extra synth module, guitar strings, and so on. The show must go on.
- Smile and/or look like you are having a great time playing music - it's contagious.
- Promote yourself - but that's the subject of an entirely different post
These are amazing tips! This should be hung in every green room nation-wide.
Will - PG Music
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Facts are stubborn things. https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes272042.htmPercentile 10% 25% 50%(Median) 75% 90% Hourly Wage $9.20 $13.20 $24.20 $44.01 $68.98 There ain't no money in playing music. Never was. Never will be.
Last edited by 90 dB; 03/28/17 12:41 PM.
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The hourly wage ain't great, but the time off sure is fun ..
If that figure 90db posted is based on a 40 hour work week I'd consider the position.
If it's based on actual 'booked hours' that's a horse of a different color.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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It's really nice to make a good hourly wage ...say like $40 or so. However, for that to be meaningful, you really need to work a full week (40 hrs) and not just 8 hrs on a weekend.
If you hold down a Monday thru Friday 9 to 5, that is some nice (tax free) walking around money for a few hrs work on Friday and Saturday night.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Our basic rate as a duo in our market is $150/4 hours. That's $37.50/Hr. (divided by 2- $18.75/Hr. each). Then if you deduct setup and tear-down time (3 hours), you're really talking about 7 hours of work/$150, which brings it down to $21.42/Hr (divided by 2 =$10.71/Hr. Each.)
And that doesn't cover the cost of a full PA, lights, three guitar amps, laptop, the trailer to haul the equipment, the truck to pull the trailer, gas, etc.
The only musicians who ever made decent money were the wedding bands, but that market has largely gone to DJs.
Regards,
Bob
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Our basic rate as a duo in our market is $150/4 hours. That's $37.50/Hr. (divided by 2- $18.75/Hr. each). Then if you deduct setup and tear-down time (3 hours), you're really talking about 7 hours of work/$150, which brings it down to $21.42/Hr (divided by 2 =$10.71/Hr. Each.)
And that doesn't cover the cost of a full PA, lights, three guitar amps, laptop, the trailer to haul the equipment, the truck to pull the trailer, gas, etc.
The only musicians who ever made decent money were the wedding bands, but that market has largely gone to DJs.
Regards,
Bob
Ahhhh yes...and you forgot TAXES. Remember, all income is taxable and your federal business partner wants their unfair share. Some states also want their percentage. There's also property taxes on the vehicles and trailer, license and registration... it all adds up. By the time you calculate everything out, many times, you are paying to play.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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That pay chart reminds me of the old quote, "there's lies, damn lies and statistics"
$30-50/hour for a 4 hour gig is about right but who's doing that for 40 hours a week? Even 30?
Gimme a break...
And Bob Norton, your comments are always right on but you have one huge advantage:
You married the chick singer. Double the money, double the fun.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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"That pay chart reminds me of the old quote, "there's lies, damn lies and statistics" $30-50/hour for a 4 hour gig is about right but who's doing that for 40 hours a week? Even 30? Gimme a break..." That was the point.  Regards, Bob
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<...>
And Bob Norton, your comments are always right on but you have one huge advantage:
You married the chick singer. Double the money, double the fun.
Bob After the first marriage failed, I decided that if I ever got married again, it would be with someone in the biz. Then I met Leilani who was singing/playing in another band. More than double the fun, and double the money. And you're right, it's delightful. She is a fantastic singer plus she plays guitar and synth. In addition she has hard work ethics, always acts professionally, and has a great time on stage. How lucky am I??? But I did make a living for the 10 or so years before Leilani without being married to someone in the band. But as many find out, a day person married to a night person is a challenge to a relationship. Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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