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Re: Lack of backward compatibility - using 2017 for Mac with older MGU files foxylady #429486 09/11/17 02:21 PM Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 1,385 JayO Expert
JayO Expert Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 1,385	Ah ha ! Thanks for the picture Pipeline, obviously I read it too quickly , I was looking at the main tempo displayed in the toolbar. I didn't realize it was in the Print options you were talking about, until I saw your screenshot and re-read the thread. Yes I can confirm the same thing is happening here too. Doh, sorry, gotta slow down a bit ! - Jay Attached Files (Click to download or enlarge) (Only available when you are logged in) Screen Shot 2017-09-11 at 8.13.19 PM.png (124.47 KB, 88 downloads) MacPro 5,1/12 core@3.46GHz -- MacOS 12.7.6 -- ATI 7970 -- 32 Gig RAM -- Crucial 500GB OS SSD -- Samsung EVO 1TB Audio/Sample SSD -- BIAB 2026 -- Logic Pro X -- Cubase Elements 14 -- Too many plugins

Re: Lack of backward compatibility - using 2017 for Mac with older MGU files JayO #429487 09/11/17 02:29 PM Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
Joined: Feb 2015 Posts: 7,954 P Pipeline Veteran
Pipeline Veteran P Joined: Feb 2015 Posts: 7,954	Quote: Ah ha ! Just copy your post to the Beta so they know. Thanks.

Re: Lack of backward compatibility - using 2017 for Mac with older MGU files foxylady #429490 09/11/17 02:52 PM Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
Joined: Nov 2012 Posts: 4,786 Iceland Icelander Veteran
Icelander Veteran Joined: Nov 2012 Posts: 4,786 Iceland	...and my findings: Nuages - This one did not crash, no matter how much I messed with it (and in the beta tests I'm usually "the guy who breaks stuff"!), but I also did not get any sounds from the Soloist channel, nor did it show the correct instrument label in Mixer compared to Pipeline's screenshot (I got Voice Oo's!), so obviously there is a flaw in there still of some sort. Two Sleepy People - This one plays just fine and all, but does have that same "printer values" issue as noted above: Attached Files (Click to download or enlarge) (Only available when you are logged in) Screen shot 2017-09-12 at 00.36.07.png (74.1 KB, 73 downloads) Last edited by Icelander; 09/11/17 03:15 PM. Reason: Further details Just because you can, doesn't mean you should! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- BBox 2022 Audiophile, Mac Pro Intel, OSX 10.6.8, 800x600 (TV VGA)

Re: Lack of backward compatibility - using 2017 for Mac with older MGU files Blake - PG Music #429499 09/11/17 07:23 PM Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 451 Australia Beachboy Journeyman
Beachboy Journeyman Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 451 Australia	Originally Posted By: Blake http://nn.pgmusic.com/pgfiles/support/patches/bb2017_update_build182.zip 182 Lyric Editor still doesn't work (produces out of range numbers then can't edit) Adding Lyrics in Notation TAB key works every second Lyric, can't time adjust melody more than for beats with "out of range" message, menus don't function when lyric edit is still enabled....... Not to mention the essentials the OSX version doesn't have compared to the Windows version. As for.... Originally Posted By: Pipeline .... I know from 2018 Mac OS X will only run 64bit apps, so they could be flat out working on that ??? I hope not. Please fix 32 bit 2017 before asking people to purchase 2018 and maybe find it still doesn't fully function, because there doesn't seem to be much action on existing, reported issues. My tip, Parallels and the Windows version. Last edited by Beachboy; 09/12/17 11:47 AM. iMac, 3.7 GHz 6-Core Intel Core i5, BIAB MAC2024 (802), Audient iD4

Re: Lack of backward compatibility - using 2017 for Mac with older MGU files Blake - PG Music #429575 09/12/17 11:13 AM Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
Joined: Sep 2009 Posts: 175 Fife, Scotland F foxylady OP Apprentice
OP foxylady Apprentice F Joined: Sep 2009 Posts: 175 Fife, Scotland	Thanks, Blake. I've downloaded and installed the build 182 update, and can confirm that the segmentation error triggered by clicking on the mute button for any instrument after loading the copy of Nuages I've referred to. I puzzled when you say 2012 didn't have the Lead Sheet feature, as I've been creating and exchanging BIAB leadsheets since 2007. Here is a link to a file I put together in 2012, which includes the Style and Tempo information in the Print Options dialogue: https://www.dropbox.com/s/i0usm2a7xo52ze6/Manhattan%20%5BRT%5D%20MDH.MGU?dl=0 If you open this file in BIAB 2016 or earlier, you should see these fields correctly filed in, but if you open them in 2017 for Mac the initial characters of these fields are missing.

Re: Lack of backward compatibility - using 2017 for Mac with older MGU files Icelander #429578 09/12/17 11:18 AM Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
Joined: Sep 2009 Posts: 175 Fife, Scotland F foxylady OP Apprentice
OP foxylady Apprentice F Joined: Sep 2009 Posts: 175 Fife, Scotland	Thanks, Icelander. I see you're using OSX 10.6.8 - perhaps my crashes were caused by 10.12 (Sierra) - but the crashes have stopped now that I have build 182 of BIAB. I still have the fault with Two Sleepy People.

Re: Lack of backward compatibility - using 2017 for Mac with older MGU files JayO #429583 09/12/17 11:24 AM Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
Joined: Sep 2009 Posts: 175 Fife, Scotland F foxylady OP Apprentice
OP foxylady Apprentice F Joined: Sep 2009 Posts: 175 Fife, Scotland	Originally Posted By: JayO Sorry, late to the party here. I did just download the "Two Sleepy People.MGU" file and didn't get a crash here on v.182 when muting tracks. I did notice though that the tempo when I opened it was 90 bpm, and not 80bpm, but it does display both digits here. I am running 10.11.6 though, not sure if that makes a difference. - Jay Thanks Jay. It was the Nuages file that triggered the crashes, and that's now solved with 182. Two Sleepy People was sent to me by a friend, who sets the target tempo for performance on the lead sheet (80 bpm), but may use BIAB for practice at a different tempo (90 bpm in this case). This fault may be OSX version-related, too. Icelander reports no crashes on muting instruments with Nuages loaded with an earlier-than-Sierra version. Last edited by foxylady; 09/12/17 11:27 AM.

Re: Lack of backward compatibility - using 2017 for Mac with older MGU files foxylady #429588 09/12/17 11:46 AM Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
Joined: Feb 2015 Posts: 7,954 P Pipeline Veteran
Pipeline Veteran P Joined: Feb 2015 Posts: 7,954	Quote: If you open this file in BIAB 2016 or earlier, you should see these fields correctly filed in, but if you open them in 2017 for Mac the initial characters of these fields are missing. What version 2016 are you using, I tried the oldest and newest with the same problem, and 2015. Click to reveal.. Attached Files (Click to download or enlarge) (Only available when you are logged in) MacBB_2017-2016-2015.png (771.06 KB, 44 downloads)

Re: Lack of backward compatibility - using 2017 for Mac with older MGU files Pipeline #429591 09/12/17 12:21 PM Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
Joined: Sep 2009 Posts: 175 Fife, Scotland F foxylady OP Apprentice
OP foxylady Apprentice F Joined: Sep 2009 Posts: 175 Fife, Scotland	My mistake, apologies for relying on memory! The Print Option text comes up correctly when viewed in BIAB 2014 for Windows (running in a Virtual Machine on my Mac), but loses the first characters of the text when viewed on 2016 Pro for Mac, and 2017 Audiophile for Mac. I have a feeling that it was OK with BIAB 2016 when I was running an earlier version of MacOS (I'm currently on Sierra 10.12.16), but can't swear to that.

Re: Lack of backward compatibility - using 2017 for Mac with older MGU files foxylady #429597 09/12/17 12:28 PM Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 791 British Columbia, Canada Blake - PG Music PG Music Staff
Blake - PG Music PG Music Staff Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 791 British Columbia, Canada	Originally Posted By: foxylady I puzzled when you say 2012 didn't have the Lead Sheet feature, as I've been creating and exchanging BIAB leadsheets since 2007. Perhaps you are talking about the Windows versions? Band-in-a-Box 2012 for Macintosh did not had the Lead Sheet window yet, although it did have the Print Options window that contains the field for typing in the tempo. I cannot reproduce the bug by saving a song in the 2012 Mac version, and then opening it in the 2017 Mac version. However I can reproduce the bug if the song was saved in the 2017 Windows version. Both of your example songs were saved in Windows versions of Band-in-a-Box: Two Sleepy People - was last saved in build 466 (Windows) Manhatten - was last saved in build 357 (Windows) In Manhatten, I noticed that there is the same bug with the Style field in Print Options (the first character is missing). Since these files open fine in the Windows version, that means the data was not lost while saving, so this should be fixable in the Mac version. Blake PG Music Inc.

Re: Lack of backward compatibility - using 2017 for Mac with older MGU files Blake - PG Music #429606 09/12/17 01:10 PM Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
Joined: Sep 2009 Posts: 175 Fife, Scotland F foxylady OP Apprentice
OP foxylady Apprentice F Joined: Sep 2009 Posts: 175 Fife, Scotland	Ah, I didn't realise that this feature didn't exist in the earlier Mac versions - as you say, I was using Windows in 2007, and (until I bought the 2016Pro version for Mac) had continued to use a Windows version in a Virtual machine on my Mac from 2013 onwards. Although the Mac 2017 version will store and print out the Tempo, Style etc fields from the Print Options dialogue, it doesn't show the Copyright notice on the lead sheet. This may be part of the same bug as affected Manhattan and Two Sleepy People.

Re: Lack of backward compatibility - using 2017 for Mac with older MGU files foxylady #429622 09/12/17 05:06 PM Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
Joined: Nov 2012 Posts: 4,786 Iceland Icelander Veteran
Icelander Veteran Joined: Nov 2012 Posts: 4,786 Iceland	So iff you wanna talk "lack of compatibility", then perhaps between platforms is the bigger issue here, then... just saying Just because you can, doesn't mean you should! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- BBox 2022 Audiophile, Mac Pro Intel, OSX 10.6.8, 800x600 (TV VGA)

Re: Lack of backward compatibility - using 2017 for Mac with older MGU files Icelander #429629 09/12/17 07:57 PM Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
Joined: Sep 2009 Posts: 175 Fife, Scotland F foxylady OP Apprentice
OP foxylady Apprentice F Joined: Sep 2009 Posts: 175 Fife, Scotland	Point taken! But I didn't know that when I started this thread, and it turns out that the problem wasn't one of a lack of compatibility, but a bug in the Mac implementation of BIAB which was revealed by an update to MacOS Sierra. I still believe that backward compatibility is a desirable goal, and also that it should be possible to "Save As" an earlier version, albeit with loss of some features. I'm thinking here of sharing files with other musical friends for rehearsal purposes where the friends might not wish to shell out the cash for RealTracks etc, but would want to be able to transpose for their instruments, play with a MIDI backing track, and create a PDF lead sheet.

Re: Lack of backward compatibility - using 2017 for Mac with older MGU files foxylady #429668 09/13/17 07:53 AM Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,082 somewhere in outer space w Expert
w Expert Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,082 somewhere in outer space	foxylady, ^ Quote: I still believe that backward compatibility is a desirable goal, and also that it should be possible to "Save As" an earlier version, albeit with loss of some features. I fully agree with your comments foxylady. In fact i have some Apple midi/audio/video software that allows backward compatibility. Which as you note makes it much easier for project sharing especially important with the Mac Operating System upgrades with all the inevitable bugs.

Re: Lack of backward compatibility - using 2017 for Mac with older MGU files foxylady #429669 09/13/17 08:04 AM Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
Joined: Nov 2012 Posts: 4,786 Iceland Icelander Veteran
Icelander Veteran Joined: Nov 2012 Posts: 4,786 Iceland	Ok, perhaps I should clarify that my "just saying" quip wasn't so much aimed at the OP as the PG staff that I now know are 'listening in' on this conversation. My "Platform Differences" tune is one I do tend to chime out at pretty much any chance I get whenever I see an opening for it - and you just gave me one Just because you can, doesn't mean you should! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- BBox 2022 Audiophile, Mac Pro Intel, OSX 10.6.8, 800x600 (TV VGA)

Re: Lack of backward compatibility - using 2017 for Mac with older MGU files Icelander #429685 09/13/17 11:00 AM Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
Joined: Sep 2009 Posts: 175 Fife, Scotland F foxylady OP Apprentice
OP foxylady Apprentice F Joined: Sep 2009 Posts: 175 Fife, Scotland	No offence taken - I could hear the characteristic sound of a hobby-horse being saddled up for some regular exercise...

Re: Lack of backward compatibility - using 2017 for Mac with older MGU files foxylady #429688 09/13/17 11:18 AM Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
Joined: Nov 2012 Posts: 4,786 Iceland Icelander Veteran
Icelander Veteran Joined: Nov 2012 Posts: 4,786 Iceland	Very good, you clearly 'get' me then - and what a picture you paint there as well, I might add Just because you can, doesn't mean you should! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- BBox 2022 Audiophile, Mac Pro Intel, OSX 10.6.8, 800x600 (TV VGA)

Re: Lack of backward compatibility - using 2017 for Mac with older MGU files Icelander #429870 09/15/17 07:42 AM Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
Joined: Nov 2012 Posts: 4,786 Iceland Icelander Veteran
Icelander Veteran Joined: Nov 2012 Posts: 4,786 Iceland	Originally Posted By: Icelander ...I also did not get any sounds from the Soloist channel, nor did it show the correct instrument label in Mixer compared to Pipeline's screenshot. Right, some further elaboration on these two symptoms after more testing (and more patches): 1. The 'no sound' issue is only occurring if I press the "Solo" button but not if I use the "Mute" button to manually isolate the Soloist track. And this odd behaviour is limited to just the Soloist track. 2. The 'wrong label' is something I've seen/reported before and is really baffling for its inconsistent behaviour, but occurs a great deal more often with pre-existing older files so I think it's relevant to this thread. I for example now know with further tests that it doesn't always give me the 'Voice Doo's' label like I thought, but rather each time I've opened this same song I get a different label (but not the correct one!), regardless of the method of how I opened the file. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- BBox 2022 Audiophile, Mac Pro Intel, OSX 10.6.8, 800x600 (TV VGA)

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